ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

binaryfission · Oct 7, 2010

BiG H3rB Tr3E said:
That's the ONLY way it can be done. No president can ever come out in favor of mj (at least no while IN office, right Billy Clinton???....prick). The onlyvway we will get mj nationwide or at the very least Feds off our back is a states right issue challenged in the supreme court ...,

that and "coming up from basement," like the LGBT community did with their closet.

kmk420kali · Oct 7, 2010

binaryfission said:
that and "coming up from basement," like the LGBT community did with their closet.

The "Basement Tokers", unexpected Voters, and "Basement Supporters" are what will win this-- :dance013:

BiG H3rB Tr3E · Oct 7, 2010

binaryfission said:
that and "coming up from basement," like the LGBT community did with their closet.

I dont know. People always compare mj movement to the gay rights or civil rights movements, but IMO all though they faced alot of persecution, it is somewhat easier for people to get behind a human rights movement than it is to get behind a "drug" rights movement.

You have to remember alot of people still view marijuana as a drug, like heroin or cocaine. Alot of people still think were just dope peddling criminals who want nothing more than to see the demise of the community through our drug trade.

I know the marijuana freedom train has been gaining alot of support lately, specailly in the last ten years. But unfortunatly there are still alot of small minded people who are influenced by very conservative people in the government and religion.

Fortunatly for us truth and science is on our side and that will inevitably be what brings the prohibition of cannabis to an end.

It reminds me of a quote buddha once said:

"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

binaryfission · Oct 8, 2010

BiG H3rB Tr3E said:
I dont know. People always compare mj movement to the gay rights or civil rights movements, but IMO all though they faced alot of persecution, it is somewhat easier for people to get behind a human rights movement than it is to get behind a "drug" rights movement.

You have to remember alot of people still view marijuana as a drug, like heroin or cocaine. Alot of people still think were just dope peddling criminals who want nothing more than to see the demise of the community through our drug trade.

I know the marijuana freedom train has been gaining alot of support lately, specailly in the last ten years. But unfortunatly there are still alot of small minded people who are influenced by very conservative people in the government and religion.

Fortunatly for us truth and science is on our side and that will inevitably be what brings the prohibition of cannabis to an end.

I'm not so sure. For most anti-gay folks they see it (being gay) as a sin against GOD. not just a drug that makes you lazy or criminal, but an aversion to their "creator," which in most cases invalidates the LBGT's person's role in the community or its eternal resting place. We don't have to deal with that. We have an economic argument to be made. Ending prohibition saves money.
Honestly, coming up from the basement, is the only way. Knowledge that black slaves weren't going to rape your white daughters, is part of what made the civil rights movement.
Acceptance increases as ignorance decreases.
Show the world that their:
bus driver
dentist
grocery clerk
bank manager
astrophysicist
mechanic
aunt & uncle
ALL smoke "reefers," and America will shrug its shoulders and say, "Ok. Its here and not going anywhere we better make room."

Do you guys realize the size and type of market we represent? 10's of billions and growing. Gays don't represent that type of consolidated block of buyers. That is our leverage. All the leverage we need IMO.

:2cents:

zen_trikester · Oct 8, 2010

Here is an opportunity to get some anwers from the horses mouth...

First of all, a big thank you to everyone who helped us surpass our $75,000 October 4 fundraising goal. It never ceases to amaze me how every time we call on our grassroots community to reach an ambitious goal, you step up and make it happen.
Now is a particularly exciting time for the Prop 19 campaign -- and the entire state of California. The election has begun! As absentee voters begin mailing in their ballots (if you've got one, mail it in!), our campaign now shifts toward becoming a "get out the vote" operation.
There's a lot going on -- and we bet you've got a lot of questions. That's why we're inviting you to a statewide conference call on the evening of October 12. I'll be on the call, joined by campaign spokesperson Dale Sky Clare and key campaign strategists.
[FONT=&quot]Click here to RSVP to our October 12 statewide conference call![/FONT]
Do you have any friends that are still undecided about Prop 19? Make sure you invite them to this conference call -- it's a perfect opportunity for them to get on board with our campaign.
And if you're already fully on board, this call will be more than worth your while. If you want an inside look at the campaign, this is the time to do it.
To join the call, simply click here to fill out an RSVP form. Leave a phone number, and we'll call you on October 12 at 7 p.m. to ask you to join us.
Thanks for all your support -- and I hope you'll join us for our conference call!
Sincerely,

Richard Lee
Proponent, Yes on 19

Neo 420 · Oct 9, 2010

You beat me too it Zen.. I was just getting ready to post the same thing!!

StoneElemental · Oct 9, 2010

Not only does ending prohibition save the public money but it also makes us money. Imagine if you will, that eventually the country ended prohibition. I'll make my numbers sickeningly conservative by the way. Say for every person in america you save 100$ from court costs, jail time, incarcerations and etc.. at over 300 million people in the lovely U.S. of A. thats 30,000,000,000$ or 30 billion dollars saved. Now I realize that every person inlcuding the government getting busted from MJ is rather unlikely and ridiculous but so is it only costing 100$ per person so work with me. Also imagine if you made 10$ per person for tax alone (again unlikely but hear me out) on average. That makes us an extra 3,000,000,000 or 3 billion dollars. With all consideration made and it equated out to 33 billion in total say per year even tho I believe this number could easily grow 10-50 times, maybe we wouldn't come out of our national deficit immediately but we could drastically start to pay it off while not going further into debt coupled with turnning around our "recession" stricken economy. It truely is a trip to think about. California is the start of that! many in our modern society are ignorant to whats been here all along and MUST be shown the truth for what it is and not just help ourselves but the public and even the environment. These naysayers don't see the true potential hidden in this diamond in the rough but the ignorant often don't find the truth til it hits them like a meteorite. I'ma show dagnabit a lil more midwest love and say to us its pretty black and white over here and the gray areas only come when californians do nothing when either challenged by the federal government, corporate america, the pharma companies or even by their own complacency to not take this stand to further what good can honestly and realisticly come out of this. :rant:

-S.E.

binaryfission said:
Ending prohibition saves money.

Edit: I would be giving more reps to others like binaryfission, dagnabit and many others but it says I've got you guys all rep'ed up for now haha I'll try again soon.

BiG H3rB Tr3E · Oct 9, 2010

Not to mention the fact that ending prohibition would allow more people to consume cannabis without fear of losing their jobs, families and winding up in prison.

Add to the fact that with more demand, means more supply. Now that mj is legal we can employ people which means easily tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of jobs created to meet this rise in demand.

Marijuana could easily be the commodity that turns our economic recessesion into economic growth.

TRA1NWRECK · Oct 9, 2010

Jack Herer didnt support prop 19. Maybe if we were voting on legalization I would vote yes, but we are NOT voting on legalization of marijuana. People will still be arrested for it. I mean counties can opt out of this proposition if they want. Thats a huge flaw.

BiG H3rB Tr3E · Oct 9, 2010

TRA1NWRECK said:
Jack Herer didnt support prop 19. Maybe if we were voting on legalization I would vote yes, but we are NOT voting on legalization of marijuana. People will still be arrested for it. I mean counties can opt out of this proposition if they want. Thats a huge flaw.

Counties can only opt out of commercial cultivation and distribution. But they can not take away your right to possess, cultivate, or consume. As for Jack Herer, a little history of the man would reveal that Jack in fact would have been pro-19 once his iniative failed to meet the requirements to make the ballot.

From the Family of Jack Herer, author of The Emperor Wears No Clothes

Van Nuys, California, August, 2010

Dear Friends of Hemp and Cannabis,

Our father, Jack Herer, was a man of leadership, compassion and idealism. He worked relentlessly for decades to achieve his dream of legalizing Cannabis hemp in all its forms, personal, medical and industrial. He wanted Cannabis to be free and open, and to be given full respect for its enormous economic, environmental and cultural benefits.

As an idealist, Jack was adverse to half measures. He originally opposed Prop 215 because it stopped at medical use only. He initially opposed Senate Bill 420 because it set limited quantities as a safe harbor. Over time, however, he came to appreciate the freedoms they created, and took pride in the role he played in inspiring those changes. Jack’s great fear about Prop 215 and SB 420 was that people would accept those limits, become complacent and stop working for full legalization. He feared we would be stuck with medical use forever.

Likewise, Jack railed against Tax Cannabis 2010, now Proposition 19, and its plan for limited legalization and local authority to tax and regulate marijuana sales to adults 21 and above. It falls far short of what he wanted. Jack ‘wanted it all,’ and Prop 19 is just a part of that dream. Unfortunately, Jack passed away before Prop 19 made the 2010 ballot; so many people think he would still oppose it. We don’t believe that, and we ask that everyone stop saying he would cling to that position as we move toward the Nov. 2 vote.

As his family, we want the world to know that the last thing Jack Herer would want is for Californians to vote to keep Cannabis illegal. He was smart and had the political savvy to know that once a measure is on the ballot, the time for bickering has passed. That is why he campaigned for Prop 215 despite its shortcomings. That is why, were he able, he would now be telling voters to rally around and Vote Yes on Prop 19.

Does that mean he would want everyone to stop and be happy with the modest changes that Prop 19 affords? Absolutely not! What Jack would want us to do right now is to support Prop 19, and come Nov. 3 he would be right back again, telling you to renew your commitment to bring a comprehensive California Hemp and Health Initiative to the voters in 2012 or some future date. Jack Herer would ask – no, he would demand your yes vote on Prop 19, along with a pledge to continue fighting for the plant, the people and the planet.

It is true that Prop 19 does not fulfill our father’s dream; but it takes us much closer to achieving it than we are now, and for that reason we, his family, endorse Prop 19 today.

Please vote yes on Prop 19 Nov 2, but do it with the dedication to keep working toward complete legalization in Jack’s honor.

Sincerely, Dan Herer et al.

TRA1NWRECK · Oct 9, 2010

BiG H3rB Tr3E said:
Counties can only opt out of commercial cultivation and distribution. But they can not take away your right to possess, cultivate, or consume. As for Jack Herer, a little history of the man would reveal that Jack in fact would have been pro-19 once his iniative failed to meet the requirements to make the ballot.

Im just saying, if im going to vote for legalization, im gonna vote for legalization. Not to decriminalize it and put more restrictions on what we can and cant do with it.

TRA1NWRECK · Oct 9, 2010

Right off the bat, san diego and orange county will opt out of prop 19. They have a hard enough time keeping dispensaries in those counties. If you give them the power to opt out of prop 19, it WILL happen.

BiG H3rB Tr3E · Oct 9, 2010

TRA1NWRECK said:
Im just saying, if im going to vote for legalization, im gonna vote for legalization. Not to decriminalize it and put more restrictions on what we can and cant do with it.

How is it not legalization?

You are legal to grow
You are legal to posesses (1oz in public, no limit on poss in residence)
You are legal to posesses hash
You are legal to give away up to 1oz

Also. look up ABX6-9. Its what the state would like to see from 19 if passed. Some of the key points: $5k cap on commercial growing liscense, possession of 16oz outside of residence, lower penalities for under 21 use, and clear distinction of 19 from 215.

TRA1NWRECK · Oct 9, 2010

BiG H3rB Tr3E said:
How is it not legalization?

You are legal to grow
You are legal to posesses (1oz in public, no limit on poss in residence)
You are legal to posesses hash
You are legal to give away up to 1oz

Also. look up ABX6-9. Its what the state would like to see from 19 if passed. Some of the key points: $5k cap on commercial growing liscense, possession of 16oz outside of residence, lower penalities for under 21 use, and clear distinction of 19 from 215.

You are legal to grow (in a 5x5 area only)
legal to possess 1 oz in public (that means people will go to jail if they have more then an ounce)
You can possess hash (thats awesome, how much?)
You can give away one ounce (what if you want to sell it, will I still go to jail if I sell it? what if i want to give away 2 ounces?)

Just seems like more guidelines and grey areas to me. counties will opt that. that pretty much ruined it IMO.

TRA1NWRECK · Oct 9, 2010

when i think of legalization I think of it actually being legal. not just decriminalized and tolerated up to a certain extent. thats all 19 is. (with taxes. which im totally fine with.)

kmk420kali · Oct 9, 2010

Once again, it is like a kid who wants 2 cookies...turning down 1--

215forLife · Oct 9, 2010

TRA1NWRECK said:
You are legal to grow (in a 5x5 area only)
legal to possess 1 oz in public (that means people will go to jail if they have more then an ounce)
You can possess hash (thats awesome, how much?)
You can give away one ounce (what if you want to sell it, will I still go to jail if I sell it? what if i want to give away 2 ounces?)

Just seems like more guidelines and grey areas to me. counties will opt that. that pretty much ruined it IMO.

Nope if they have more than an ounce in public they fall under the new SB 1449 legislation.
As for hash probably an ounce.

Think about this for a second if there are stores opening up left and right selling weed, if there are peeps on craigslist slinging left and right who the hell is going to bust you over an ounce? The peeps that "they" would go after would be those who sell hundreds of pounds and don't pay taxes. Which if you sell ANYTHING (even if its fucking cotton sheets) you have to pay taxes on your income already.

What ruined it? Seriously you want it to be illegal to sell herb? You want it to be illegal for people to grow a plant in their back yards?

There are a shit ton of rumors about prop 19... admittedly alot of them were spread by me before.

I suggest you check out this site to get the real fact not all of that Dragonflyfucker bullshit.

http://www.taxandregulate.org/prop19anchors.html

http://www.taxandregulate.org/prop19anchors.html said:
2010 California Election

Fact check by topic:
Question and answers on Prop 19

Chris Conrad's YouTube explanation of how Prop 19 works, and why you should Vote Yes
In California, convicted felons retain their right to vote except when incarcerated. You should register to vote and your friends to vote by Oct 18, vote absentee or drag them to the polls on Nov. 2, 2010 to legalize marijuana.
How do election officials describe Prop 19? Title and Summary

What is Prop 19 trying to do for California? Purposes

Does Prop 19 declare certain cannabis activities fully legal and define them as being lawful and no longer a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older? Yes, it creates Health and Safety Code 11300.
Does it make it lawful for adults to possess, carry and share an ounce? Yes. HS 11300
Does it protect a small garden and supply from being seized or confiscated. Yes, within its parameters and as long as there is no evidence of illegal diversion activities. 11303 No seizure of lawful quantities.
How does it change current laws? Prop 19 eliminates three misdemeanor offenses, HS 11357b adult possession of less than an ounce, HS11360b furnishing less than an ounce to another adult, HS 11360b transporting less than an ounce. It also eliminates HS 11358 felony cultivation for gardens up to 25 square feet and adds an affirmative defense for greater quantities. It adds the possibility of jail time for furnishing to an individual younger than 21 years and allows the legislature to downgrade or reduce penalties for marijuana offenses but not to increase them.

Are there other activities that Prop 19 does not authorize or penalize? Yes, HS 11300 Activities not authorized includes smoking non-medical marijuana around minors or in public. Likewise, laws banning impaired driving and an employers right to prohibit smoking on the job are not changed.

Does Prop 19 propose to protect access to Medical marijuana? Yes Purpose 6
Does it protect California Prop 215 and SB420 possession, transportation rights? Yes, Purpose 7 [Note: This section refers to them as Health and Safety Code (HS) 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.] Nowhere in the statute does it ever propose to modify the defined rights of designated protected medical status created by Prop 215 or SB420, such as HS 11362.775: "Qualified patients, persons with valid identification cards, and the designated primary caregivers of qualified patients and persons with identification cards, who associate within the State of California in order collectively or cooperatively to cultivate marijuana for medical purposes." Both the Pro and Con ballot arguments agree that medical marijuana is fully protected.
Does it protect Prop 215, SB 420 cultivation, transportation rights? Yes, Purpose 8 [Note: This section refers to them as HS 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.]
Has the California Supreme Court talked about the effects that legalizing adult use would have on medical marijuana laws? Yes, in the People v Kelly decision, and the discussion indicates that medical use will enjoy any benefits but that their rights cannot be reduced. See video.

Does Prop 19 legalize personal cultivation of small gardens? Yes. Purpose 14 / in an area of not more than 25 square feet per private residence HS 11300(a)ii or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. 11304 Cultivation canopy / 11304 Greater quantities, affirmative defense /
Does it allow adults to legally cultivate and keep all the marijuana they harvest even if more than an ounce? Yes. 11300 allows the residents to keep and store the quantity that they harvest from their small garden.
Does it allow local communities to allow larger personal amounts and cultivation or garden sizes? Yes. 11301 Local ordinance allowing larger safe harbor.
Does it allow for greater quantities than the one ounce and 25 square feet? Yes, it preserves Prop 215 and SB 420 quantities and creates 11304 Greater quantities / 11304 Greater quantities, city and counties / 11304 Greater quantities, affirmative defense

Does Prop 19 allow the state legislature to make certain amendments and adjustments in the future to refine the program by creating Statewide regulations for a distribution system and/or ease restrictions on personal use? Yes, Purpose 11 / Sec 5 Amendment by legislature or voters
Does Prop 19 propose to make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial hemp, and research purposes? Yes, Purpose 12 / Sec 5 Industrial hemp.

Does Prop 19 discuss how other laws will be affected by its passage? Yes, 11304 Effect
Are there certain laws that are to be modified by Prop 19? Yes, they are listed by statute in Intent 1. [Note: This section does not mention Prop 215 or SB 420, HS 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9 as being changed.] Are there certain laws or parts of laws that are not to be modified? Yes, they are listed by statute in Intent 2, [Note: This section does not mention Prop 215 or SB 420, HS 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9, either.]

Does Prop 19 include definitions to better explain and target its effect? Yes. 11304 Definitions.

Does Prop 19 protect civil rights of the public? Yes, it protects the rights of Californians not to be punished, fined, discriminated against, or denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by its passage. 11304 anti discrimination
Does Prop 19 protect the rights of employers to ban the use of controlled substances in the workplace or by specific persons whose jobs involve public safety. employer? Yes, in the Intent section.
Does Prop 19 protect employers to keep people from smoking during work hours and to follow federal Drug Free Workplace rules and regulations and address consumption that impairs employee job performance? Yes. 11304 Employer rights /
Does Prop 19 protect the rights of employees? Yes, a business cannot discriminate against its employees for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act. However, the employer can still address consumption that actually impairs job performance. 11304 Employees
Does Prop 19 protect California's public highways and address public safety concerns? Yes. 11304 Driving and public safety
Does it allow people to drive while impaired from marijuana? No, 11300 Driving /
Does Prop 19 11300 allow for tenants to cultivate but also respect a landlord's property rights? Yes

Does Prop 19 authorize people to smoke around children and does it create any new legal penalties for doing so? No, HS 11300(c)iv
Does Prop 19 HS 11300 protect private personal use and on-site consumption? Yes, “Personal consumption” shall include but is not limited to possession and consumption, in any form, of cannabis in a residence or other non-public place, and shall include licensed premises open to the public authorized to permit on-premises consumption of cannabis by a local government pursuant to section 11301.

Does Prop 19 allow counties and cities to regulate commercial activities? Yes 11301 Commercial activities and regulations /
Does Prop 19 allow retail sales to be licensed by local governments? Yes, sales up to one ounce 11301 Retail /
Does Prop 19 allow private businesses to sell marijuana to adults and allow them to consume it on site? Yes. 11301 On site consumption /
Does Prop 19 allow localities to charge business fees and licenses for cannabis like they do for other commercial activities within their borders? Yes. 11301 Local licensing fees and taxes.
Does Prop 19 authorize marijuana to be shipped to other states? No, 11304 Interstate trafficking prohibited /

Does Prop 19 consider how to regulate cannabis products that are ingested orally or eaten? Yes, 11304 Edible products /

Does Prop 19 retain existing penalties on sales or diversion to minors? Yes, 11361 Sales, furnishing to minors / The penalties listed for furnishing to people under the age of 18 are already in the existing state law, HS11361. The initiative retains the same provisions as currently exist. 11361 Furnishing to minors under 14 years / 11361 Furnishing to minors under 18 years / /
Are there any added penalties for knowingly providing to minors 18-21? Yes, it knowingly furnishing to minors in this age group is upgraded to misdemeanor with possible jail time, similar to the alcohol laws, but furnishing to people under the age of 18 is left at the current penalties. 11361 Furnishing to minors under 21 year. There is also a provision to penalize licensed businesses that furnish to minors, once they are operating in 11304 Licensing /11361 Loss of retail license for selling to minors.

What happens if part of the initiative is found to be unconstitutional? The rest of the measure will be retained and operative. Sec 6 Severability

BiG H3rB Tr3E · Oct 9, 2010

kmk420kali said:
Once again, it is like a kid who wants 2 cookies...turning down 1--

pretty much....some people just would rather people goto jail so they can continue to charge high prices and pay no taxes. id also guess that many of these people hide under 215 and like to believe they are legal because they havent been arrested yet.

vta · Oct 9, 2010

fresh meat nice!

lol

Neo 420 · Oct 9, 2010

TRA1NWRECK said:
Jack Herer didnt support prop 19. Maybe if we were voting on legalization I would vote yes, but we are NOT voting on legalization of marijuana. People will still be arrested for it. I mean counties can opt out of this proposition if they want. Thats a huge flaw.

In all fairness, you should be a little clearer with your point. Counties and cities can opt out of allowing the commercial sale of MJ, not prohibit the residents of those cites and counties from growing or consuming. That's a important piece you left out....Turns the huge flaw into a minor flaw IMHO.

ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

Member

Freedom Fighter

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c

Member

zen_trikester

Active member

Member

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c

Member

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c

Member

Member

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c

Member

Member

Freedom Fighter

Member

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c

Active member

Active member