Strains in Jeopardy

[DocLeaf]

A DNA data base is what we need.

Why's that? so big breed companies can slap a patent no. and royalties on plant genetics?

For example, (it's only an example nothing personal) if/when Sam slaps a DNA number on Skunk #1 ,, ALL the seed companies using his genetics in their varieties would have to pay Sam royalties to use the genetics, royalties to sell the genetics.. apply for a license agreement to use the genetics in their gardens and any future breeding projects.

At present when you buy a packet of seeds,, you then own the genetics,, the rights to the genetics,, and the possibility to breed with them. The only thing you dont own is the name of the strain,, which is often protected by really weak copyright laws.

Then some dumb bunch of doctors will make a b/s list of strains they permit,, and the rest will be outlawed! No thanks... it's called Codex Alimentarius

Hope this helps

 

[David762]

I agree 100%

I agree 100%

I am not against innovation in developing new crossbreeds. But there does need to be greater care taken in preserving both "milestone" crosses and landrace strains particularly. Both indica and sativa landrace strains are at risk of disappearing forever, but especially sativa strains that take a long time to finish.

Commercialization and increasing crops per year have taken the cannabis plant into new genetic territory in spite of cultivation of cannabis being largely illegal almost everywhere. The preservation of "heirloom" strains takes a lot of space, time, and effort. This is especially true when back-crossing is required to attempt to re-isolate the original genetics.

One could hope for any locale where cannabis is legal or has become re-legalized, through a governmental or non-profit organization, to fund and sustain a cannabis seed-bank to preserve "heirloom" and landrace strains. The risk is the dilution of the genetic pool to the point of losing some here-to-for unknown desirable genetic traits. Suppression and persecution of cannabis and knowledge of cannabis has been going on for more than 75 years, after 10's of thousands of years as an honored plant species.

The only hope in the mean time is to advertise those seed vendors who do the most to preserve these special strains, and to support them with our business ...

This is just my observation of the marijuana seed industry..OUR beloved plant is being watered down...I;ll explain..

I just went on seedbay as i usually do to peruse the strains and see if i want to spend my hard earned money..Well guess what..I DON'T and you wanna know WHY..

Cause all of the available seeds or most not all are watered down genetics...Chem this and OG that...I am just as quilty, I just did a pollen chuck if those 2 exact strains lol

BUT I think this community needs more breeders like ACE,TOM HILL and Cannabiogenn and MR.NICE not more guys like Rez and DG and Connoisseur Genetics...thay are just watering down things..I LOVE the time and effort they put in I just wish it was towards the good of the plant not the deterioration of the genetics...

Seriously when is the last time you grew a plant out that wasn't hybridized a million times over..I know I haven;t...We are all guilty..

LETS TRY AND PRESERVE some of these old genetics so we don't lose them forever..
Just my thoughts..thanks

peace
Chefboy

 

[GET MO]

and now for the daily double!
This mostly sativa breed of cannabis was all but eradicated in its country of origin and is known for its hermphraditic tendencies yet soaring an often psychodelic high.

 

[Blue]

Thai...

 

[GET MO]

That is correct for 840! blue please select the next topic...

 

[Blue]

Just call me Turd Ferguson!

 

[highestground]

was gifted about 120 genuine Panama Red seeds in August. shared 50 to various parts of the US. have 6 growing now, hope to send 5 outside with a Dr. Atomic Northern Lights female in 2 weeks for a seed crop here in Santa Barbara, 215 legal. get a couple Panama Red girls pollinated to keep the IBL true. looking forward to the F1 with the Northern Lights. rippers got my outdoor crop this year. i will get by-y-y, i will survive.

 

[OMMPatient]

Sensi Seeds Super Skunk: The case of diluted genetics

Sensi Seeds Super Skunk: The case of diluted genetics

This is a very interesting and informative thread here. It's great to see the heavy hitters like DG and Gypsy and actual breeders chime in their .02 cents worth.

When it comes to "strains in jeopardy" or the watering down part I can use Sensi Seeds as an example from my experience. I went to the dam in 1991 and bought some Super Skunk seeds from Sensi Seeds at their hash museum. One pack of 10 seeds for like $65.00 us dollars. It was the real deal Afghan x Skunk#1 F-1 hybridization at work here.

The '91 SS Super Skunk was some of the dankest, skunkiest, fuel smelling, road kill skunk I have ever grown, seen, or smelled in my life. This marijuana was so potent and so smelly traveling with even the smallest piece was a major liability!! I'm talking triple, quadruple ziplock bags in Tupperware and you still can smell the skunk. I had about 2-3 different phenos from a ten pack of seed and they were all beautiful and slightly different. Some smelled like coffee, some like Afghani hash, some like diesel fuel, but all reeked like a true skunk. I cloned the best plants and grew it out successfully and became the local hero in my town. People were literally beating my door down to get a taste. It was so popular sold a big bag of it to Jon Popper of Blues Traveler and gave a big colas to Super Cat and Eek a Mouse.

Fast forward about 15 years or so. I lose the strain due to changes in life etc. I decide it would be great to grow that Super Skunk strain again. I decide to buy the exact same strain from the exact same company and hope to get my old roadkill skunk back. Right? WRONG!

What "Sensi Seeds" sent me in 2005 was not even close to what I had grown in the past. The plants were weak smelling, slow growing and almost had no resin and just a slight fruity smell not the skunk smell or taste I was expecting. In fact these plants were so fricking far from what I had originally grown out in 1991 that I was pissed off and was deeply disappointed. Sensi really ought to be ashamed. In the case of the Sensi Seeds Super Skunk these genetics have been extremely watered down and not worth a shit IMHO. I feel ripped off.

Then I ask myself why do I hear about the Massachucetts Superskunk being so popular and legendary?...Oh it must be an original Super Skunk from the early 90's that have been preserved and kept pure. Funny I lived in Mass for 2 years in the early 90's and gave a few clones out to friends...Hmm makes me wonder....

Anyhow, the only thing I can find that's even close to the original Super Skunk is a 1989 Salmon Creek Big Bud that is clone only from Santa Rosa CA. It's pretty close to the original Super Skunk but not as strong smelling but about equally as potent.

Also a lot of these popular diesel strains of today somewhat remind me of the original Super Skunk with a fruitier twist to them and just not as potent.

Oh and by the way it is extremely hard to find these old school strains in their pure form now a days. Like pure skunks and pure Afghanis. I used to grow an 8th or 9th generation Vermont Afghani in the 80's that blows away any of the Afghanis I've met today. Living in the past I guess but boy do I sure miss those old pure piney, hashy tasting strains.

 

[DocLeaf]

We agree pre2000 SuperSkunk was somethings else.. grew it and smoked lots of it x1 spliff had 3 of us giggling for hours.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes.....sadly I have seen this type of thing happen with many seedbanks/breeders/seedmakers......

What was once established as a particularly good variety 10-20 years ago is today not the same...

This can only be happening if the relevant seedbank/breeder/seedmakers are not using the original parent stock, male and females to re-create what we once knew of a particular variety in seed form......which is not exactly honest if they are selling it under the same name as they were originally.....

Some of the Dutch and Spanish seedbanks/breeders/seedmakers I know for a fact sell many different varieties that they retail themselves under one name at wholesale prices to other seedbanks/vendors that then rename them with a different name before sale without any reference to where they were produced in the first place.......so from my standpoint it has been very difficult over the years to investigate the possibility of this and be able to tell/discern if what I am thinking about buying to distribute from a new seedmaker/breeder/seedbank is already in my stock under a different name......

I have discovered without any doubt that certain breeders have done this (and continue to).....made or bought seeds, that they have then put out as their own creations without any kudos to the true breeders work or the real seedbank they have bought them from, renamed and then put them out for sale.....If I know that these shenanigans are going on then I will not stock seeds from these flim/flam men........because they are not only trying to deceive myself, but the end user also.....

 

[Blue]

Sorry Mo I had to do some work today.
I'll take know your Jug's for 200 please.

 

[sac beh]

Yes.....sadly I have seen this type of thing happen with many seedbanks/breeders/seedmakers......

What was once established as a particularly good variety 10-20 years ago is today not the same...

This can only be happening if the relevant seedbank/breeder/seedmakers are not using the original parent stock, male and females to re-create what we once knew of a particular variety in seed form......which is not exactly honest if they are selling it under the same name as they were originally.....

Some of the Dutch and Spanish seedbanks/breeders/seedmakers I know for a fact sell many different varieties that they retail themselves under one name at wholesale prices to other seedbanks/vendors that then rename them with a different name before sale without any reference to where they were produced in the first place.......so from my standpoint it has been very difficult over the years to investigate the possibility of this and be able to tell/discern if what I am thinking about buying to distribute from a new seedmaker/breeder/seedbank is already in my stock under a different name......

I have discovered without any doubt that certain breeders have done this (and continue to).....made or bought seeds, that they have then put out as their own creations without any kudos to the true breeders work or the real seedbank they have bought them from, renamed and then put them out for sale.....If I know that these shenanigans are going on then I will not stock seeds from these flim/flam men........because they are not only trying to deceive myself, but the end user also.....

What do you think is a reasonable long-term solution to this problem? As mentioned above, plant genetics patenting is an option, but is a scary idea to your common smoker/grower who doesn't want a single entity/breeder to have a monopoly on a certain plant genetics, collecting royalties from its use, etc, and is even legally questionable as patenting of natural phenomena like DNA and genetics is still an open question I believe. What if instead of patenting genetics there was something akin to a copyright system? Namely, a system which ensures that credit is given to creators of unique properties/breeds and that a certain genetic is accurately represented to the consumer, but that there is no financial liability involved with the use of established/registered genetics?

It seems like for genetic patenting to be reasonable, the breeder would need to be taking significant steps to modify the plant beyond crossing two strains. Extraction of plant materials into a product or non-natural genetic modification are examples of patent-worthy applications.

 

[Pinkladyeater]

Gypsy Nirvana, in your experience and dealings with various breeders and seed banks who are some of the more reliable and honest?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

What do you think is a reasonable long-term solution to this problem? As mentioned above, plant genetics patenting is an option, but is a scary idea to your common smoker/grower who doesn't want a single entity/breeder to have a monopoly on a certain plant genetics, collecting royalties from its use, etc, and is even legally questionable as patenting of natural phenomena like DNA and genetics is still an open question I believe. What if instead of patenting genetics there was something akin to a copyright system? Namely, a system which ensures that credit is given to creators of unique properties/breeds and that a certain genetic is accurately represented to the consumer, but that there is no financial liability involved with the use of established/registered genetics?

It seems like for genetic patenting to be reasonable, the breeder would need to be taking significant steps to modify the plant beyond crossing two strains. Extraction of plant materials into a product or non-natural genetic modification are examples of patent-worthy applications.

...Within prohibition there is no real solution to this problem.....and even if all was legal it would be difficult to discern exactly what was or is owned by whom......can someone have ownership over a specific plant genus?......and if so would that be the particular breeder that happened to create it in the first place, or some big bucks company/corporation that could afford to copyright it and have the political influence to make that stick?

....and how would this be policed?...(I despise using that word...lol).....

...Right now most any plant can be grown and bred by anyone, is that not a basic human right?......what gets me riled is that the breeders that actually put the time, effort and work into breeding something special, possibly unique .........constantly have to watch as others claim to have done the work that they have done to produce that varietal....and benefit financially from selling it without at least giving a modicum of kudos (and not even a financial reward) to the breeder that actually created it......

 

[tequila_sunrise]

...Within prohibition there is no real solution to this problem.....and even if all was legal it would be difficult to discern exactly what was or is owned by whom......can someone have ownership over a specific plant genus?......and if so would that be the particular breeder that happened to create it in the first place, or some big bucks company/corporation that could afford to copyright it and have the political influence to make that stick?

....and how would this be policed?...(I despise using that word...lol).....

...Right now most any plant can be grown and bred by anyone, is that not a basic human right?......what gets me riled is that the breeders that actually put the time, effort and work into breeding something special, possibly unique .........constantly have to watch as others claim to have done the work that they have done to produce that varietal....and benefit financially from selling it without at least giving a modicum of kudos (and not even a financial reward) to the breeder that actually created it......

I doubt you could patent the genus and get it to stick but you sure could patent the name of the strain.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I doubt you could patent the genus and get it to stick but you sure could patent the name of the strain.

....So someone could patent the name 'Canaloope Haze' when it is really Cinderella '99 that had alot of work put into it by the Brothers Grimm...(that has not been mentioned)..and it's not really a Haze anyway?......would that be a true representation of the actual lineage of the plant?......just by calling it by some other name so that the seedmaker/breeder who paid for the patent could take all the accolades ....as if they created it and done the work to produce it in the first place?

 

[tequila_sunrise]

....So someone could patent the name 'Canaloope Haze' when it is really Cinderella '99 that had alot of work put into it by the Brothers Grimm...(that has not been mentioned)..and it's not really a Haze anyway?......would that be a true representation of the actual lineage of the plant?......just by calling it by some other name so that the seedmaker/breeder who paid for the patent could take all the accolades ....as if they created it and done the work to produce it in the first place?

I am not a legal expert by any means.

Unless you can put a patent on your strain you worked to breed, I don't know if there is any way to stop this.

I have personally seen less than honest people pass an unknown strain off as "strain y" because it had a sexier name.


I see plants of heirloom tomatoes for sale outdoors at the hardware stores. I don't know if there is anything stopping somebody from picking one of those plants up and starting their own nursery selling that plant.

no doubt legal trouble would ensue if you tried to use the same name but I can only imagine a messy long drawn out case to prove genetics.

 

[Big D]

well you "register and trademark" names( I think some breeders have already registered some their strain names) and you "patent" formulas! And while the US patent office does have plant patents I don't think they are presently accepting applications for any cannabis varieties. Don't try it!

It will be interesting to see what happens as cannabis becomes legal but I personally think you could say goodbye to ever knowing strain lineages again.

 

[GET MO]

know your jugs for 200....
this strain of cannabis is also refferred to as DpD.........

 

[Big D]

I don't know my jugs but if your water is too soft.... put a little Viagra in it