dirt the movie!

[NUG-JUG]

I was at a city outside of Seattle this weekend and noticed the facade of "environmental planning" all around me. It seems they don't really think about it on the microbiological level,but rather how it looks to the people that BUY (or trend) the whole "go green" idea....the visual effect it has on the native flora and introduced spieces literally shows that it is consumer focused more than environmentally focused. Using chemical ferts that end up in the water shed and clearly mess up the balance. All you have to do is know a bit about plants and just stop to look at it for 30 seconds.

I hear you on this, worst thing around here is the yearly struggle to keep grass alive. At least around Denver they don't even bother anymore (everything is zero-scaped)...I think there's more "green washing" than actual sustainability going on sometimes..

CC- Food INC is an amazing movie..A friend saw it yet still eats processed "edible food-like products" as Michael Pollan would say..I guess some people are able to keep their cognitive dissonance on high..
The part about the ammonia washing and meat fillers is especially foul. Glad I gave away my free Big Mac coupon today..

MM- I've read about the Indian farmers committing suicide by drinking pesticides. There are loan sharks who basically front the seeds to them at high interest. Then the things Monsanto says about the crops don't pan out, and they owe so much after a failed harvest suicide seems like the only option.

Another good doc I found few days ago is called 'David Vs. Monsanto'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzELDt3d2I

It tells the story of Canadian farmer Percy Schmeiser who fights them in court. They employ former Blackwater types to intimidate farmers, and to take samples of seed.

DARC MIND- Thanks for the link! I'm gonna watch watch this later and smoke at intermission lol

 

[Bennyweed1]

This is an awesome video! I love my dirt

 

[MrFista]

Michael Pollen talks about grasses in a Ted Talk. He uses poetic liscence to explain how various grains have coerced humans to help them take over the world. Ethanol is part of corns evil plan - LOL.

 

[SecretGardener]

WOW great documentary, very informative!

One thing I never get though...How can you support evolution and also say something is bad, wrong or injust? Define the word 'wrong' if there is no moral standard to compare to or any higher power to be accountable to? Why shouldn't I do whatever the hell I want to get ahead if I have no accountability? Sure us 'little' people are accountable to the law but what about those people in power that are above the law? This video is a great example of how those people can opress the 'little' people...and why not...

There is no God in the evolutionary model therefore no moral law and no accountability...So the indian farmers who are being taken advantage of is not wrong it just means they are not surviving as well right? So fuck 'em and kill em all lets take their land and do what we want? You see this is the ENTIRE PROBLEM WITH EARTH. We need God.

 

[Microbeman]

morality was invented by the greeks - do you accet their gods?

 

[DARC MIND]

IMO evolution is simply a explanation for the history and diversity of life on Earth.
heres a neat read
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html

 

[SecretGardener]

morality was invented by the greeks - do you accet their gods?

Yes actually I do believe their 'gods' were real beings. I believe they were God impersonators and not the true creator.

But who invented it and why is missing the point. The point still stands, in the face of evolution there is no right or wrong. There are 'rules' that societies need to uphold in order to function but what if as a society we cannot agree on those rules? What if I think murder is perfectly fine and you don't? Who decides who is right? The one with the bigger gun, thats who

EDIT: Just wanted to note, please don't think im some creationist rebel rouser. I don't agree with organized religions or any set in stone ideals. I just know there is something else out there and that evolution is a great observation but a BAD conclucsion (that we came from nothing). I just like to point out the obvious truth that others like to ignore because they too do not have any other answers. /endrant

 

[SecretGardener]

IMO evolution is simply a explanation for the history and diversity of life on Earth.
heres a neat read
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/he...gy/31book.html

I'll check it out

 

[MrFista]

Evolution is the one great truth. It is the overarching theory of descent with modification backed by thousands and thousands of pieces of evidence. To deny it is uneducated foolishness.

A theory - in science, is tested and retested. If it were proved wrong ONCE, it would be thrown out. But... DNA, homologous characteristics, fossil record... THOUSANDS of pieces of evidence support this. A scientific theory is a very solid base of evidence, I think theory is the wrong word for it, it is NOT a hypothesis, evolution is a fact.

God is only the answer when you are too lazy to attempt to answer the harder questions about life the universe and everything properly.

Our imaginary friends will not save us, we got to do the work ourselves.

 

[Microbeman]

Who decides who is right? The one with the bigger gun, thats who

Or with the bigger god!

On the other hand there is a morality which exists in the RNA code of nature; of earth. Most creatures on earth have some function within this and in mammals it appears to express itself through instinct although our interpretation of that word begiles what I intend to say. Why do whales continue to tolerate, rescue and befriend men despite the fact that we slaughter them without reverence? I suppose if any 'religions/god perceived having human traits' came close to perceiving this instinct/morality it is the various indigenous religions, like that of the North American Indians. When we arrived on this continent, unfortunately we forced our false god on them instead of accepting their gods, which would have possibly saved the planet.

Why is it that a higher power cannot be a nucleus or something more centrally defined through evolutionary science? Why are humans so petrified of a higher power which does not remotely resemble humans?

 

[CT Guy]

I don't see evolution and a belief in God as incompatible belief systems. I agree with Darc when it comes to evolution. Because something is considered a scientific theory doesn't mean it's not a fact. I was an anthropology major and studied evolution extensively. There's too much evidence out there not to accept it. Isn't gravity considered a "theory" as well?

On a lighter note, did anyone check out the other movies I listed?

 

[CT Guy]

Oops, and by Darc I meant Mr. Fista

 

[Microbeman]

IMO evolution is simply a explanation for the history and diversity of life on Earth.
heres a neat read
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html

Interesting read. One aspect of this may be that babies/young children are very upset (often to tears) when they observe violence inflicted upon living things. They harden to this as they become trained by society.

 

[Microbeman]

I don't see evolution and a belief in God as incompatible belief systems. I agree with Darc when it comes to evolution. Because something is considered a scientific theory doesn't mean it's not a fact. I was an anthropology major and studied evolution extensively. There's too much evidence out there not to accept it. Isn't gravity considered a "theory" as well?

On a lighter note, did anyone check out the other movies I listed?

I agree that the two are not incompatible. Suprised CT guy? I do disagree strongly that morality needs god.

I worked for over 20 years as a fund raiser for disabled children related charitable organizations. The absolute least reliable and obfuscating donors were wealthy Christians. The wealthy atheists (& Jews) came through with their committments almost 100% of the time. It got so bad that once a prospective donor professed of their work with their mission or church, I did not bother even calling back again. Maybe it was just me.
(I know I'm biased.)

 

[DARC MIND]

Our imaginary friends will not save us, we got to do the work ourselves.

"You should do your own work, for I can teach only the way."
buddha

 

[SecretGardener]

Why is it that a higher power cannot be a nucleus or something more centrally defined through evolutionary science? Why are humans so petrified of a higher power which does not remotely resemble humans?

I totally agree lol. Check out this example.

I write software for a living. The applications I create are composed of a collection of sub routines. These sub routines do specific tasks, but, by themselves they're basically useless. Some sub routines are amazingly complex and some are just simple. Some times I borrow code from a sub routine and morph it a little bit to do something a little different than it's original design.

The programmer has to put these sub routines together in a meaningful way in order to create an application! I created the sub routines. I also created the application (organization of sub routine calls). I personally am not INSIDE those applications but they are an extension of my mind. They would NEVER have existed without the programmers mind. And lets just say somehow those sub routines magically appeared one day. If you were to give them LOTS of time and LOTS of random pairing the odds of making an entire operating system and then applications that run on that specific operating system is IMPOSSIBLE.

I believe God is the programmer. He is in all things so yes he IS the nucleus, he IS nitrogen, he IS phosphorus just the way I AM my applications. I believe the word is Omnipresence. The problem is what you said we are petrified to relate with some power that isnt human like. Lets say you knew half of everything there is to know in the entire universe. You still wouldnt know if God existed in the other half! I'm just saying, its plausible and probable. To say so strongly that there isn't a God is a bold claim

You see where I am going here? Do I choose a religion or side? Definitely not. Do I see how silly evolution is? Yes.

 

[guest2012y]

Got it on DVD at my house to watch soon!

On a side note, if you want to see the most disturbing movie on animal cruelty, watch "Earthlings" Saw it on a date! (long story)
*Warning, I'm not exaggerating how disturbing or graphic this movie is. I didn't make it all the way through.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142#

For a good movie by Paul Tukey on the chemical industry and homeowners, check out "A Chemical Reaction"
http://www.pfzmedia.com/#/images/stories/screen/small/HomeDepot3.jpg

Meaty.........have yet to watch the second link,but the first......pretty fu*#ed up how complacent we get.

 

[CT Guy]

Meaty.........have yet to watch the second link,but the first......pretty fu*#ed up how complacent we get.

2nd link doesn't show the whole movie but you can get an idea of it. Really is well done. 1st one was a little much for my tastes, but hammered the point home. Amazing what we allow on the margins of society so that we can have cheap meat. As long as it happens behind closed doors, everyone is blissfully ignorant.

MM, I don't believe that religion or Christianity has a monopoly on morality by any means, but by that same token, don't judge a belief system or religion based on morals of some of it's followers.

 

[SecretGardener]

A theory - in science, is tested and retested. If it were proved wrong ONCE, it would be thrown out.

Really? How do you test the evolution theory? Doesn't it take billions of years? How do you test and prove something that takes billions of years. Don't buy this baloney kids! Now, micro evolution is observable and provable it also does not support the idea we came from nothing. In experimental sciences, a theory can never be "proved", it can only be "disproved" by experiment. Real scientists know you cannot PROVE anything. The word doesn't exist in science.

But... DNA, homologous characteristics, fossil record... THOUSANDS of pieces of evidence support this. A scientific theory is a very solid base of evidence, I think theory is the wrong word for it, it is NOT a hypothesis, evolution is a fact.

Well there are some major problems with the evolution theory that is why it is a theory and not a law. Why are monkey's still around if we've evolved from them? I once saw this show that made me laugh on discovery channel. They had 3 fish laying on the table they caught in the same river. Each fish looked similar, basically variations of each other. Yet this guy is lying through his teeth trying so hard to show the evolutionary change from fish #1 to fish #3. Problem is they are all alive at the same time in the same river. If you ask me that's just called variation. Why would the first two fish even be alive if the 3rd fish is the fittest to survive? Thats garbage science if you ask me. Sounds more like an agenda than science actually. Do you blame me for not believing EVERYTHING I see or read? MrFista how do you know those thousands of pieces of evidence support the theory? Did you collect them or do you just have faith in what people are telling you? I have NO faith in people, I have seen what they are capable of.

 

[Microbeman]

I totally agree lol. Check out this example.

I write software for a living. The applications I create are composed of a collection of sub routines. These sub routines do specific tasks, but, by themselves they're basically useless. Some sub routines are amazingly complex and some are just simple. Some times I borrow code from a sub routine and morph it a little bit to do something a little different than it's original design.

The programmer has to put these sub routines together in a meaningful way in order to create an application! I created the sub routines. I also created the application (organization of sub routine calls). I personally am not INSIDE those applications but they are an extension of my mind. They would NEVER have existed without the programmers mind. And lets just say somehow those sub routines magically appeared one day. If you were to give them LOTS of time and LOTS of random pairing the odds of making an entire operating system and then applications that run on that specific operating system is IMPOSSIBLE.

I believe God is the programmer. He is in all things so yes he IS the nucleus, he IS nitrogen, he IS phosphorus just the way I AM my applications. I believe the word is Omnipresence. The problem is what you said we are petrified to relate with some power that isnt human like. Lets say you knew half of everything there is to know in the entire universe. You still wouldnt know if God existed in the other half! I'm just saying, its plausible and probable. To say so strongly that there isn't a God is a bold claim

You see where I am going here? Do I choose a religion or side? Definitely not. Do I see how silly evolution is? Yes.

I don't think you understand evolution because you seemed to disassociate it from the programing you do....one thing follows another is all that evolution is...nothing else.

Note that you recognize that the higher power can be a nucleus but call IT he. A nucleus is not in all things but communicates and changes other things through RNA (and...?). I think you know that.

Evolution is definitely not silly. It has given us many things, including the ability to look ahead and attempt to rein in our activities 'we hope in time'. Attributing human names and traits to what could end up being the center of the evolutionary process is silly.