2.5x1.8 meter coco scrog, 3 strain bingo!!

[Tokesome]

day 26 pics

day 26 pics

Grapefruits flushed today, all fed with ec1.4 ph6.1

I`m thinking of introducing a little PK13/14 from day 28, 5 weeks from harvest, I`ll go with a low dose, followed by a medium dose the week after and then a stronger and final dose during week 6. I`m also going to start introducing Blackstrap molasses every other day seperately to there feed from the res`s, the reason being that it`ll make a foul mess of my res`s and drippers if I mix into the nute res`s.

I want to apply only small amounts just to add some carbs, and its every other day is cos I know I wont get around to doing it every day, probably not every other day as planned! lol

I`ve decided not to use any booster products, I just couldn`t bring myself to choose one from the array of bull shit that comes with every one. . . . cynic I am.

Its end of day 26 and here are the plants.

Grapefruit from above, they need more fan leaves removing already I reckon.

The light (600w) is only a few inches away from the tips here, but the fan keeps the temps down where it counts and the plants seem to be loving it.

Armageddon

Grapefruit, they dont look as advanced as the Arma`s, but I expect them to catch up as they did last time, some of the stem`s tips are sited with buds for over 24inches.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Mate,
So whats the crack with the defoliate mate, are you happy? & can you explain your ob's please buddy, i cant see where youve done the defol in the pics theve come back very well, you'll have to try n talk me into this Toke. specially if it works as well as some say it does.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Scrogger, sorry mate, what do you mean exactly by ob`s. I`ll do my best to explain.

Yeah, well I`ve got to convince myself first mate. So far I cant see much difference, all is looking pretty good.

The first pic in the above post is the right hand row of Arma`s with the GF`s behind them. There are 5 Arma`s there and the farthest three were stripped of almost all fans, except for top four(ish) of every stem, dunno why I stopped there really.

The 2nd pic is the other row of Arma`s, again 5 of them and the neares 2 have been stripped too. The very nearest one is a bit of a runt tho, always was.

The thing is I have removed a fair amount of leaves that were getting in the way on the rest of the Arma`s, and the same with the GF`s. I`ll be doing some more leaf removal this week, and probably some more every week if alls looking well.

The real test will be when I try a couple from veg stage, where you get a different plant structure, I wouldn`t commit a whole grow to it until I`ve tried it out first.

I`ve no doubt that some fan leaf removal, those getting in the way of budsites below, is very advantageous, there is defo no loss in yield and at the very least its less messy and no popcorn, which in itself will bulk the yeild, now whether stripping virtually all of them off at week 3 will have any atvantage, heh heh, I`m not sure on that one, but so far its holding up really well.

One thing I`m fookin chuffed with mat is that I`ve not the slightest sign of any def`s/lockouts, and the plants, although looking the picture of health itself, it hasn`t got that over rich green colour that I usually have, which I think is a good sign that the Nitrogen isn`t too high, not a whisper of tip burn either. I did feed at ec1.6 for a few days, but didn`t like the run off being a couple of points up on the intake, so did the routine thorough flush and now feeding at ec1.4.

I`ll feed Molasses separately today or tmro and start with a little PK at the start of week 5 of 9. I`ll lower the A+B and keep the ec to 1.4 when I add the PK, maybe 1.5 max, and keep an eye on the run offs.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

I`ve added PK13/14 to the res`s, now on day 28 of 63(ish), at just 3mls per 10ltrs, making a difference to the strength of 0.1. I haven`t really adjusted the A+B to account for it as its such a small amount so the ec is now sitting at ec1.5, a little stronger than I`d like but its not too bad I think, especially with a regular flush.

Both res`s are full now, and I`ll aim to flush in 2-3 days.

I`ll feed at 3mls per 10ltrs this week, followed by 6mls next week and 10-12 mls in the final PK week, week 7 of 9.

I still haven`t got around to molasses, I`m going to leave it probably til next week as I`ve got a bad back at the moment so taking things as easy as I can.

Cheers, Toke ;-)

 

[Scrogerman]

Sounds like a Plan Buddy!
Yeah, ive always run the PK 13/14 the same way bro, it's always worked out for me on that 3 week schedual too. You did the same last time with the PK didnt you man? Yeah ill be real interested to hear your overall Ob's(Observations) & feedback at the end with this 'Defoliate Tec', Always do it when Scroggin anyway but not to the extent that some are, its got me real interested this one! Seems to be working well for ya bro! Nice

 

[Tokesome]

Sounds like a Plan Buddy!
Yeah, ive always run the PK 13/14 the same way bro, it's always worked out for me on that 3 week schedual too. You did the same last time with the PK didnt you man? Yeah ill be real interested to hear your overall Ob's(Observations) & feedback at the end with this 'Defoliate Tec', Always do it when Scroggin anyway but not to the extent that some are, its got me real interested this one! Seems to be working well for ya bro! Nice

Hey bro, I did start the PK earlier least time, but I wonder if it was a bit early for them. I`ve held it back till start of week 5 this time, the buds are starting to swell now so I`ve kinda gone on how it looks this time.

Start of week 5 of 9, gives me 3 weeks to feed the PK on a gradually increasing dose, then 2-3 days normal but low feed and a 10 day flush.

All looking pretty equal between the totally stripped plants and those that were more selectively pruned, thought the totally stripped ones showed a protest for a day or so, but not sure, they certainly look happy enough now and there is more light getting to the lower bud so it could work out ok.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

I just checked the run off from a couple of the Grapefruit plants, I think they may want more food.

Input by drippers is ec1.5 @ ph6.0, run off is ec0.8 ph6.4

Ph is cool for run off I gather, but I`m guessing if they`re running off at ec0.8 that they may need an ec at ec 1.6-1.8.

I`m awaiting run off to test from the Armageddon, I`m guessing the ec reading will be higher.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Mmm. . . As I expected, the Armageddon run off is ec1.4 @ ph6.0, virtually the same as is being fed, ec0.1 down that`s the only difference.

My problem is that I`m feeding all the plants from the same rez`s so I cant apply 2 different feed strengths the way I have it set up at the moment.

I`m not sure what to do about this, I want to make sure the Grapefruit are getting what they want as they`re just starting to swell the buds now and I expect fast bud growth over the next 3-4 weeks.

I could try raising the nutrient strength to ec1.7-1.8 and keep a close eye on the Armageddon`s run off, but I dont wanna over fert as they`re building buds very nicely at the mo. Or I could leave things as they are and hope the GF`s are getting what they need from the ec1.5 I`m currently feeding.

My other option is to seperate the 2 rez`s and swap all the drippers over so that one rez feed`s the 10 Armageddon and the other feeds the GF`s, and then I can give different feed strengths and application durations to the two different strains. Probably the best option, though it`ll be quite a fook about.

What do your thoughts guys, I`m suspecting the run off figures for the GF`s are too low and the Armageddons there about correct.

All plants are looking great and obviously wanna make sure I get things right for both sets of plants.

Cheers, Toke ;-)

 

[bonecarver_OG]

doesnt seem like they will thrive together.. beeing that different.

2 different rez's would be the solution i guess.

peace mate

 

[Tokesome]

Well 9 days after taking the cuttings off the Grapefruit plants that were 3 weeks into flower 5 out of 18 have roots showing, YEAY! I think I`ve saved the strain afterall. . . . I`m absolutely chuffed!

I`ve decided to use one rez to feed the 5 Grapefruit and one to feed the 10 Armageddon plants, thus enabling me to feed at two different strengths to them.

I`ve now got ec1,8, including 4mls per ltr of PK13/14 @ ph6.1 going to the GF`s and ec1.4, including 3mls per ltr PK13/14 @ ph5.9

With the 50/50 RO/tap water I`m not having to adjust the ph. It settles between 5.9 and 6.1

The plants are looking gorgeous, and resin is building nicely. I`ll try and get a few pics taken in a short while at lights off.

Cheers, Toke

 

[STUPPA]

Congrats on your grapefruit rooting mate thats got to feel good hehe

look forward to the update man .

 

[Tokesome]

Day 30 pics

Day 30 pics

Hey Stuppa, yeah I gotta say I`m over the moon with some of the cuts taking after just 9 days, 3 weeks into flower, especially after 2 failed attempts before flowering them. My cuttings usually take 12-14 days to come thru, and expected flowering cuts to take longer. I cant figure it out, but I`m certainly not complaining.

Here are the pics taken at the end of day 30, they`re coming along really nicely, certainly better than the last grow, hope I haven`t spoken too soon now.

Armaggedon row 1

and row 2

Armageddon

The Grapefruit, towering above the Armageddon on the left.

Grapefruit, some of the longer ones are going to have well budded stems in excess of 2 feet, they`re not as advanced as the Armageddon, but going on the last grow they`ll be catching up by the end.

I`ve been busy and still haven`t gotten around to feeding any molasses to my plants, but I must get around to giving the plants some extra carbs this week. I dont wanna apply with the rez feed cos of the sludge it creates in the rez. Not sure whether there`s an advantage to feeding away from normal feed times or before or after a feed. I`m thinking if I apply it before a feed, the feed would then flush the majority of the Molasses through the medium. Having said that its fookin sticky stuff and will probably stick to everything it touches as it passes through. Anyone know if there`s one way of applying it seperately, that has any advantage over other ways??

I have to put some lines up in the room to tie the Grapefruit up to as they`re starting to go over and its just the Armageddon that are stopping some of them going completely over!

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Buddy, Wow this is taking shape nicely, Big Long Buds, i like the look of it man, Much potential to break the Scales on this Run, trich's look Beautiful, covered already. Nice l

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Scrogger, thanks bro, I`m not expecting big things from the Armageddon after last time, but we`ll see, the Grapefruit however is going to be pretty outstanding I think, some of those budded stems are actually 2 `n a half feet long, big and unruly but I love em. Its not quite as strong a smoke as the Armageddon, that`s the heaviest gear I`ve ever grown, but the GF is my favourite and its not far off in the strength with a lovely hashy smell and taste and is niether sweet nor sharp. Its definitely a winner. 15 of these in one grow is my aim mate, and its looking like a possibility for next go.

I`ve finished doing the job of separating my two rez`z to feed the different strains. One loop now has all 15 drippers going to the 5 Grapefruit plants, 3 drippers each. They`re big multi-branched plants and on a twice daily feed til run off regime the plants drink it up well.

The other loop I`ve blocked off 5 of the 15 feed lines to give one feed line per plant to the 10 Armageddons. These plants are nowhere near as thirsty as the Grapefruits and a bit concerned that the twice daily feeding is a bit too much for them, although they`re showing no signs of being over watered. I might try them on a once daily feed now that I`m feeding them separately to the Grapefruit, and see if they prefer it.

I`ve had to put a few lines up across the room to support the Grapefruit, they`re tall and starting to lean on each other. I`ve one more to add and the I should have enough to hook them up to and keep them up in the light and separated.

I`m wondering if I can get away with adding another 400 watt to the lighting. I have now got 3x600w and 1x400 set up like this:-

--------------------
x 1st row, 5 Armageddon x=600w on light mover rail
--------------------
x x4 2nd row, 5 Grapefruit, stationary lights x=600w, x4=400
--------------------
x 3rd row, 5 Armageddon, x=600w on light mover rail
--------------------

I`m thinking of switching one of the light movers off and adding a 400w to one of the rows of Armageddon giving 2 stationary lights over them like the 2nd row, these will both be tilted inwards to also give the grapefruits a bit more side light. I have a spare 400w and I reckon the temps will stand it so I may as well get the benefit if I can.

I`ve removed some more of the fan leaves from the Arma`s and GF`s, just some of those that were obstructing the light from good bud sites below.

Oh, I`ve now got 9 out of the 18 Grapefruit cuttings with decent roots showing after 10 days from taking them, WOOT WOOT!! I thought I was gonna lose this, my favourite strain, but I`m now thinking if a few more root up, I`ll have 15 Grapefruits for my next grow and a good mother plant, which would be great. If not, well I`ll still have some to go with and saved the strain which is the most important thing of all.

Cheers guys, Toke.

 

[~Shhh~]

I reckon the flushing I`m doing is important, complete change of thinking from page 5 of this thread. One reason I`m coming down big time in favour of regular flushes is that my mates growtent grows, 2 tents with 3 Arma`s in each, have had a huge yellowing and loss of lower leaves, albeit beneath the screen of the scrog, they have`nt been flushed. Mine on the other hand, although not scrogging, I still have a dense canopy and I`ve had no such yellowing or leaf loss. As yellowing and lower leaf drop is often because of low ph/high ec, I`m thinking the build up of salts is significant even with drain to waste (with plenty of run off) feeding with ec1.2. My mate`s started flushing now. Other than the lower leaf drop the plants look fine above and every bit as advanced as mine which are running the same flowering period.

interesting observation Toke, do you think this may have been the root cause of your previous troubles?

Gotta say I am more than impressed with the way things are turning out this run for you. I dare say that yields will be back on target with this one for sure! I also like to see long cola's doing there thing, I think the training has been spot on too.

Guess what I am saying in a roundabout way is that you've done bloody well mate lol! Very interested to see how the defoliated plants come along, seem to be on par with the ones you slightly trimmed from the pics, some more comparison shots of just those 2 would be great if possible.... re the carb boost, I will probably not do a grow without the boost you were enquiring about via pm's.... that stuff has everything those plants will need without need or further supplements (apart from PK) it has amino's carbs, kelp and array of good shit, application rate is 1ml/L which is also pretty decent.

After smoking the molasses/panela vs Bud Candy vs Control groups for over a month now I can safely say my preference is as follows... M&P, control, BC.

The BC adds more sweetness to the taste but with the effect of taking the raw cheesyness away from the smoke, whereas the M&P amplified the cheesyness and control (which had the boost added) also had a stronger cheese taste to the buds.

Make of that what you will, but I had my best yield (few g's away from 1gpw) and best tasting cheese ever from using the boost, plagron top activator and 1 part canna terra in soil.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Shhh, good to see you about again. Yeah thanks for the good words bro, things are looking good, and maybe the flushiing is part of the previous issues, it certainly stopped any signs of def`s/lockouts. Having said that the GF`s didn`t have any signs of it last time and it yielded well, but the Arma`s if ya remember were plagued with the MG looking def. However the GF`s did well last time so I suspect the Arma pheno is not too stable. They looked pretty much the same re size of buds in the last grow at this stage, but were disappointing in the fact that they never really packed the weight on and remained pretty stunted. I`d expect them to do better this time, cooler temps, flushing etc, but not hugely, as I said I think the pheno is all over the place and I wont be growing them again.

I cant take any more individual plant pics now unfortunately for 2 reasons, one I`ve got a bit of a bad back and two, I`v now got lines running through the plants to give support and something to tether the leaning branches of the Grapefruit stems. I also hope to have to tether some of the Arma`s up if they fatten up enough over the next 3-4 weeks. The problem is I`ve had to run the support lines through the whole grow, and had to set them low so that the lower lights on movers over the two trays of Arma`s, hence me not being able to get them out of the room. When they come to the chop though I`ll take plants one by one and take pics. To be honest I dont think my experiment will give any useable results because of the unstable nature of the strain, but I intend doing a little experimentation with the next grow on plants that are stable, as all of the GF`s look to be a good pheno and the clones grow predictably similar. I guess this is just a lil practice.

in these pics you can just about make out how I`ve run some lines of green twine through the grow.

One Armageddon is by far exceeding all of the others, then the average plant is at least a 1/3 less in bud size, and then there are 3 pretty runty ones, all from the same mother plant.

Unfortunately there are still only 9 GF cuts showing roots, no more through today, tho its only day 11 and a few more will probably come through. I have two trays of 9 cuttings in one prop box, and strangely its all the cuts from one tray that have come through. The box was maybe a couple of mm up at one end and the higher end is where the tray of rooted cuts were, but its not as if this made the ones at the lower end sit in water at all, its all a bit of a puzzle.

Anyway I definitely have 9 GF`s clones and all have good strong roots coming out of them now, I`m going to pot them up into tiny pots tmro. And I have the 6 Hog clones, (dont like the look of one of them though) that are rooting into small pots at the mo, so if the worse comes to the worst that`s what I`ll be using in my next 15 plant grow, 9 GF`s and 6 Hogs, but I`d hope more GF`s will root up so I can do a single strain grow of a plant I know, love the smoke and know I can get results with. I`ll have to give the Hog a try tho as I`ve heard so much good about it, but I might let my mate try them in one of the 1.2m2 tents first if I can get a full compliment of GF` going here.

I`ve also got more strains I can take cuts from in friends` grows if needed, but I dont know anyone with the GF`s going and still jumping for joy at saving her.

I`m having ec issues that are confusing me a bit too. The rez for the GF`s I set at ec1.8 @ph6.0 after finding run off figures were down to ec0.8. I checked the run off after this change of feed strength to ec1.8 and the run off was ec1.9 ph6.0, then today, a day and a half later I flush them with 8ltrs each of ec0.0 RO water, half way through the main run off period and the run off was up at ec1.9 ph6.1 still, WTF! I let them run off some more and one had gone up from ec1.9 to ec2.1, whilst another was ec1.3. This is after really heavy run off with ec0.0 water being pumped through standard hose with a fish tank pump (good flow). Well how the hell do I figure that out?

I then checked the rez stats and found that the ec had risen to ec2.1. How can the ec rise like that, its not recirculating and I take a lot of care when I set my rez, I have an air stone and a recirculating pump and I have a lid on my rez so evaporation is minimum. Human error perhaps, but I`m really sure I did things right when I set the rez.

I`ve added 50/50 RO/tap water to bring the rez down to ec1.1 and fed till a good long run off, 4 hours or so after the flush. Its not good to give them that strength in coco, especially when they`ve been use to a max of ec1.5. Its scared me a little and I`m going to revert to feeding them ec1.2-1.4max.

I`ve also noticed slight tip burn in a few of the Armageddon plants, so I`m going to keep their feed down to ec1.0-1.2. I dont want to fuck things up by trying to push them, and going to go on the less is more principle.

Cheers, Confused

 

[Tokesome]

I`ve now potted up 10 Grapefruits, they all had good roots showing. I still have another 8 not showing any roots yet, well except one that has the first little root poking through, I`m hopeful the rest will follow.

3 weeks into flower when the cut was taken, its crazy, you can see the resin coating on some of the leaves

There are 6 Hog clones on the left, though I`ve since ditched the one that was looking dodgy, and the 10 new Armageddon clones, behind is the other rooting cuttings and the Armageddon mutha, which I`ll be ditching once I`m certain of a better replacement.

I`ve had a 70w HPS in there, but now switched to a 200 envirolight, I think the colour spectrum is better for the youngsters. I`ll not want them growing too quickly though, as it`ll be another 5 weeks minimum before they can go in the main room, especially the Hog which are starting to co for it a bit now. I may put something in between the plants and the light to diffuse the light, thus slowing them down. To be honest though if they get a bit big, as did the GF clones last time, I`ll just hack them down to a roughly equal height. Its worked really well with the GF`s, made them strong and multi branched, and you can see in the previous pics how they`ve grown.

Cheers, Toke

 

[dramamine]

Howdy Toke,

Fantastic looking grow and nice thread! Great job on those GF clones at 3 weeks into flower, too. Awesome...

What really has me curious is the fact I'm currently seeing that same (magnesium?) deficiency in my plants in coco. It really looks and sounds remarkably similar to what you were describing and showing pictures of in your previous run: slightly yellow growing tips and the occasional rust spots on lowers.

It's not affected growth from what I can tell, but I worry about it progressing, affecting yield. I'd like to feel I'm doing something about it.

I did try the foliar of epsom salts. It may have helped a touch, but I can't see too much improvement yet. I'm also giving the occasional flushing. So I really feel that it must be a matter of dialing in my tap water (.7 EC) and distilled water mix.

Your situation sounded so similar, I just had to see if you had any thoughts on my best approach here.

Cool thread, I'll be keeping up! Peace!!

 

[killerweed31]

very nice job tokesome cheers...also i'm impressed for the fuck..healthy roots coming outside jiffy , high class for sure man!!

 

[gaiusmarius]

hey Tokesome,

good to see your plants budding up nice. i hate it when i find a situation i can't explain logically. normally it turns out to be human error, lol. a few times when measuring return ec i have grabbed a jug previously used for adding ferts or ph minus, hence when i add return to that jug without rinsing well before hand i get the craziest readings. but yes salt accumulation takes a while to show up in coco, but once you have it it also takes a while to flush it out again.

anyway keep on keeping on and thanks for sharing.