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Compact SOG with CFL's

V

Voodoo

Frankly, Im more a fan of top lighting plants and cutting them into flat topped hedges. Vertical lighting sounds like a real pain if you top water like I do. When I eventually convert to PLL, I will be making air cooled hanging fixtures for my plants and using blocks to raise them to an even canopy. I've never had problems getting the plants to bud down low, but my tallest plants are 2.5 feet..

In terms of yield, I don't know if Ill be able to pull 4oz of material off the plants, thats a bit high for soil and a 24x18x18 plant, especially indoor.

Finally, PLL costs a damn fortune. 24 CFLs for 58 bucks from home depot - 552w. To do the same in PLL, youll need 4 workhorse ballasts - $120, and 10 55w bulbs - $100.:wave:
 
H

Helis

Member
Voodoo, I don't know if your math is all right. 272w of CFLs (4x42w, 4x26w) cost me damn near $80, while the same-ish amount of PLL's (220w) were under $70. Also PLL's are more efficient, don't have wasted light stuck inside them (like coils do) and do a good job at keeping cooler (also I believe due to the coil design flaws).
Lastly, wiring 24 CFLs sounds like no fun. The 26w and 42w ones are the most efficient, anything smaller than that or bigger and you lose some light/watt.
10 2g11 bulbs on the other hand are an easy task to rig up.
So there is obviously give and take with both styles of bulb, but having grown with CFL and 2G11 (PLL) bulbs, I'll take the PLL's any day.
Now what to do with all these CFLs...
 
H

Helis

Member
One of my points is, that's a lot of bulbs for to wire. You're not counting in the cost of sockets, and wiring. The decent sockets at big box stores are usually about or just over $2 a pop, usually about $3.

So a 24 pack of bulbs for $60, and 24 sockets for ~$60 = $120

10 2G11 bulbs are ~$40 (you're using cheap CFLs, then use cheap PLLs too!) and $120 for the ballasts... We're starting to close the gap here. Ballasts can be had in bulk on eBay for cheaper than this. Some would say you only need 3 ballasts for that many bulbs (when I started with PLL's people were pushing straight 220w per workhorse 8)

Besides, my main point is CFL's don't do everything PLL's do. One of those major things specifically being cooling, which I think is a decent concern for the average microgrower.

Just things to think about. The initial investment may be higher, but not by a whole lot. And it pays off
 
Anti

Anti

Sorcerer's Apprentice
Veteran
Voodoo said:
Finally, PLL costs a damn fortune. 24 CFLs for 58 bucks from home depot - 552w. To do the same in PLL, youll need 4 workhorse ballasts - $120, and 10 55w bulbs - $100.:wave:
Click to expand...


I have (12) 42w CFL in my current box (6 for veg, 6 for flower.)

They cost about $9 a piece at Home Depot for the 2600k and about $12-13 a piece online for the 6500k (not available locally in 42w varieties.)

That's a grand total of 504w of CFL for a cost of $126, plus the light sockets at $2 each, so add another $24 in there and call it $150.

For my proposed PLL design, we're talking about a total of 3 workhorse ballasts at $30 a piece ($90) plus 8 or 9 55w PLLs at $9 each ($72).*

55w x 8 = 440 total watts for a total lighting cost of $162.

So... it'll cost about $12 dollars more to buy the PLLs than to buy the CFLs, but you'll use slightly less electricity each month. And you'll get MUCH better light penetration and less heat.

Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me.

(*if you buy cheaper PLLs you can get them for $3.50 each instead of $9 for the Sylvanias, which drops cost down from $72 for 8 to $28 for 8. Total cost for lighting with cheapo PLLs is $90 for ballast + $28 for bulbs = $118. That's a savings of $32 off the cost of the CFLs!)

Also, on the subject of watering in a vert setup... i water like Doc Bud... I take my plants out of the cabinet and submerge them in a nutrient bath until they stop bubbling, then put them back in the cab. It is a very effective method and takes about 30 minutes to water 50 plantlets or so. I'm not concerned that the vert setup will increase my workload.

If you saw the highpod, you know why I like the vert idea. if you didn't, stop what you're doing and go read that thread. It's friggin' awesome.
 
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T

Terramoto

Member
phrike said:
What's your ambient temp ?

Several people seem to prefer exhaust fans that suck out, alone or in combination with intake fans, say 3 out and 2 in.

If your fans are weak or fighting each other it may not work so well. Are they DC 12 volt fans ? Any idea of CFM or pressure ?
Click to expand...

my ambient temp is 28-29ºC, im on a very low budget i dont even know where i got the money for the air pumps :p all 5 fans are 12Volt, trying now to get more $$ to buy a w.c exhauster every 5 pulling in the the top hole where the air gets out. I thought the heat would go up and the fresh air would pressure it out.
 
Tilt

Tilt

Member
I can see both sides of the cfl pll debate. Convenience versus effectiveness. This boils down to" do you get enough bud from your set up,"? Commercial growers need HID lamps and huge overhead. Believe me everytime a micro grower starts up and is successful there is a commercial grower that just lost a customer. I think thats why the disdain for small setups. Micro growers can get away with flouros. Adapt to your situation and resources available. Thinking humans are great at doing this to get what what they want. You can do it we can help.
 
V

Voodoo

Easy sailors. :) I was just pointing out that at the time when I built it, the CFLs were the most cost effective setup for my closet. I like the PLLs, but have yet to play with them.
 
knna

knna

Member
Just to add one more advantage about PLLs, ballasts last way longer than bulbs. Initially, a PLL setup may be a little more expensive, but for sure you recover the extra investment by large for the time you need to replace bulbs, With CFLs, total cost is again almost the same (reduce sockets), while with PLLs, you just need to replace bulbs.

A remote ballast not only offer the advantage of the possibility of taken it out the cab and reduce heat load, but you dont need to waste the ballast because the bulb has degraded, as with CFLs. Not only cheaper on the long run, but friendly with environment.
 
sx646522

sx646522

Member
knna said:
Just to add one more advantage about PLLs, ballasts last way longer than bulbs. Initially, a PLL setup may be a little more expensive, but for sure you recover the extra investment by large for the time you need to replace bulbs, With CFLs, total cost is again almost the same (reduce sockets), while with PLLs, you just need to replace bulbs.

A remote ballast not only offer the advantage of the possibility of taken it out the cab and reduce heat load, but you dont need to waste the ballast because the bulb has degraded, as with CFLs. Not only cheaper on the long run, but friendly with environment.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Huge #$%^@! waste having to buy a new CFL ballast every time the lamp dies (should have drop-ins available instead, at the very least), production methods for those rape Mother Earth, plus most of the components that go into those incandescent style replacement lights are CRAP ('Lights of America' (i.e. China), anyone? Biggest marketing coup since calling a true Iceland 'Greenland', and vice versa), and the ice cream swirl design is one big HEAT TRAP. Nothing'll kill a fluorescent lamp faster. Horrible, inefficient things, CFLs.

Sometimes, you just pay way too much for the sake of 'convenience'. Purpose-built lighting fixtures, all the way.

But yes - they are cheap.

-SX
 
Penguin59

Penguin59

Member
DrBudGreengenes you are my hero man. I just admire and respect everything you've done from your skills as a grower, to your decency as a human being. Growing for your friend because you want to help him out is an incredible thing. Your results are equally as incredible. I like to think that there is such loyalty and compassion left in this world. If more people were like you, and didn't grow for profit but for pleasure and helping people then this "war" on what we do would be over in a heartbeat.

Your veteran experience is a gift to this forum and im definitely taking a leaf out of your book.

Penguin
 
P

phrike

Member
Terramoto said:
my ambient temp is 28-29ºC, im on a very low budget i dont even know where i got the money for the air pumps :p all 5 fans are 12Volt, trying now to get more $$ to buy a w.c exhauster every 5 pulling in the the top hole where the air gets out. I thought the heat would go up and the fresh air would pressure it out.
Click to expand...

28-29c is about the limit you want the plants at.

So IMO you have a heck of a problem there.

If there's a basement you can use that's cooler I'd highly recommend that. At least try to get intake air from the lowest you can off of the floor in an area that doesn't heat up from the sun.

Beyond that, if you run 12/12 to flower have the lights come on at night, or for veg at 18/6 have the lights off at hottest daytime temp.

Get the fans to suck out or perhaps open up the cab (no stealth, unfortunately) and have fans blowing directly on the lights.

Probably best to start another thread about this or ask questions on an existing thread about fans or ventilation.
 
LoKey

LoKey

Member
pll vs cfl i would definitely go pll if my application allowed me (proper sizes) but use what you have available to you (reason why im using cfls) in the end were still going for the same thing, to grow some plants, how we get there doesn't really matter so long as were happy with how we did it


also pll's in my mind are only really beneficial if you can use the 55w or 36w bulbs (87lm/watt, 80.5lm/watt, initially), and or need a very low profile (thin) light due to height clearances
 
G

growfr

Member
I like the idea of PL-L's. They could be easily adapted to DBS (Dr Bud Style) grows.
My biggest challenge was height, even in soda bottles. I just couldn't add any more headroom. I had plants all bent up. Some were even bent into a complete circle - Yes they will still grow & yield that way. It just adds to the complexity of the process.
Now that I have done it with straight CFL's, It will be easier to go back and do it again with PLLs.

The beauty of the DBS system is that just about anyone can do it green thumb or not. I think starting out with PLL's while learning about germing seeds, cloning, building soil, odor control, stealth, and learning the way our plants grow can be like drinking from the fire hose. After 3 or 4 months with a nice stash of bud in cure adding some compexity is just fine.

It also keeps us out of the grow shops which was always a source of paranoia for me. Who knows what LEO has up thier sleeves.

Additionally when people are paying $60 for an eigth of the god shit, this is the only way to fly for personal consumption.

Thanks for your tutilage good doctor!
 
5

5th

Active member
Veteran
I finally got a chance to read this thread...and feel the richer man for it. Thanks to the Dr. as well as the other contributors.


5th
 
#1cheesebuds

#1cheesebuds

Well-known member
Veteran
Anti said:
Yes. I am currently averaging about 5.1g per plant. I harvest approximately 4 plants per week. Feel free to do the math.

I'm using 2.01 sq ft and 252w of CFL.

Here's a sample harvest:





My boy Tilt has an Entertainment Center with PLLs and he regularly pulls MORE than the doc.

(I'm in the process of designing/building my PLL cab now. I fully expect to outperform my CFL results by a comfortable margin.)
Click to expand...

this is the most badass shit I ever seen. I am starting me a sog grow.

I have a few Qs about ur grow. u got any pix of inside the cab.
also how tall u let the plants get befor u flip to 12-12.
and r they clones or from seed.

thx for some info on ur sog grow. :D 1cb.
 
Tilt

Tilt

Member
I think anti has been busy in the real world. Check out his thread he has a serious seeds ak47 mom he takes clones from for his sog.
 
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