Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
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@-tokesome Hey guys, Am I right in thinking that the reason the leaves need to be removed during veg is to achieve the plant shape and more bud sights?
yes you are correct. keep doing it from very early on in veg, and after a few weeks they look like this,
keep removing leaf for a further 3 weeks,and they look like this,
then pop it in flower and they look like this,
picture of new shoots that defoliation creates,
Bob
Wow mate that`s some shapely plant, and this defo seems to max the method out, nice one. I see you leave a few fans on, you leave them where they`re not impeding, yes? Any pics of mid flower and near harvest?
I have mates that pluck all the fans off at time of switching to 12/12, and then again at week 4, on well branched lollipopped plants with some amazing results too. Not bonziad at all but some fookin huge colas and nice chunky bottom bud. I gave a mate a few cuts of the Arma, he fucked all but one up due to getting too dry, but the one he has left is really very impressive, the other strain he`s growing, he doesn`t know what it is, are all doing amazing. I mean amazing too, I`ve grown good yeilds and this exceeds them.
They`re very tall plants, 6 foot plus, vegged till they were 3 1/2 feet tall, so a lot of wasted area (3feet plus) at the bottom of the plants, but huge plants do put out huge colas.
Its not how I wanna go tho, preferring shorter more manageable plants, though I`m loving some unruly Grapefruit at the mo.
My Armageddon plants are a reasonable shape and although I see your technique works with great results, this doesn`t mean its not worthwhile to defoliate more mature plants, I think I`m right there, but I`m tempted to try the technique with some or all of the next grow. I`d be a bit concerned about trying this out on a full grow with a new strain, as I`m suspecting some plants will not like this treatment, but I feel this method may be easier to manage than a large scrog or conventionally grown plants, as I`ve previously done. I am very impressed.
Have you found some strains like this technique and some dont, or do you get consistently good results with most strains?
Oh and what about transpiration, I assume the plants cope pretty well?
Cheers Toke
Hi toke
The reason i didnt pull the bottom fans off,is exactly for that reason, there at the bottom,they are also helping the shoots stretch to the top of the canopy.(and when they reach. there gone)
I have no pictures of my plants in mid flower as these were the first lot i did, from very early on in veg.
Ive never removed fan leafs in veg as i always thought it was a big no no.
but i do remove them in flower when i feel that they do more harm than good.
However i always like to keep an open mind and as someone mentioned early on in the thread, a picture says a thousand words, and the op pics are proof in the pudding.
i also like the concept of having my light quite low to my plant,(only 400w)and at the moment its 12"away from the top,
the plant is only 12" tall now its been bent/twisted, and i only have another 14" of height available to me.
So by plucking leafs in veg i can keep my plants small, but full of future bud sights.
i can now do 8 plants instead of 6 plants.
All the bud grown is in a light spread of no more than 24" from the top of the plant pot to the bottom of the bulb.(max 38")
and all bud is of a nice quality with no fluffy crap.
the op plants yield 10oz.
Now it may have just been me being a bit skeptical, but it all sounds to good to be true doesn't it??
so here i am 38x 38 grow space, with plants that have had there leafs pulled of all there life, its going to continue every 7 to 10 days until there ready.
it feels wrong (defoliation in veg)
but looks so wright in flower its weird.(very short nodal length,loads of growth)
i could grow a massive plant and get 10oz but i dont have the height or the lamps anymore.
but by applying the op technique i have the ability to extend the time line of veg for my plants, whilst also keeping them small,and then sending stretch out laterally during flower.
from what i see happening at the moment i dont think ill grow another large plant again,or at least not in height, for some time.
Bob.
i canot comment on what strains like or dislike this process as ive only done it on 3 so far.
And regarding transpiration i havent noticed any ill affects,but to be honest the plants seem fine with the whole process.
The reason i didnt pull the bottom fans off,is exactly for that reason, there at the bottom,they are also helping the shoots stretch to the top of the canopy.(and when they reach. there gone)
I have no pictures of my plants in mid flower as these were the first lot i did, from very early on in veg.
Ive never removed fan leafs in veg as i always thought it was a big no no.
but i do remove them in flower when i feel that they do more harm than good.
However i always like to keep an open mind and as someone mentioned early on in the thread, a picture says a thousand words, and the op pics are proof in the pudding.
i also like the concept of having my light quite low to my plant,(only 400w)and at the moment its 12"away from the top,
the plant is only 12" tall now its been bent/twisted, and i only have another 14" of height available to me.
So by plucking leafs in veg i can keep my plants small, but full of future bud sights.
i can now do 8 plants instead of 6 plants.
All the bud grown is in a light spread of no more than 24" from the top of the plant pot to the bottom of the bulb.(max 38")
and all bud is of a nice quality with no fluffy crap.
the op plants yield 10oz.
Now it may have just been me being a bit skeptical, but it all sounds to good to be true doesn't it??
so here i am 38x 38 grow space, with plants that have had there leafs pulled of all there life, its going to continue every 7 to 10 days until there ready.
it feels wrong (defoliation in veg)
but looks so wright in flower its weird.(very short nodal length,loads of growth)
i could grow a massive plant and get 10oz but i dont have the height or the lamps anymore.
but by applying the op technique i have the ability to extend the time line of veg for my plants, whilst also keeping them small,and then sending stretch out laterally during flower.
from what i see happening at the moment i dont think ill grow another large plant again,or at least not in height, for some time.
Bob.
i canot comment on what strains like or dislike this process as ive only done it on 3 so far.
And regarding transpiration i havent noticed any ill affects,but to be honest the plants seem fine with the whole process.
I was always led to believe leaving long leaf stems is mold promoting(dying veg matter cant be a good thing on a living plant), 'but so is any fresh open wound'. Mold spores will bloom on open wounds, ie, where a fresh leaf is removed an open wound is left at the node. To me this is always a worry in later bloom(especially). Imo your much better off taking the leaf-stem off as close to the main stem as possible, maybe 1mm-2mm. Anything that can cause a potential Rot problem is a problem & a worry ime.
Ive still not seen any conclusive evidence that this tec really works & is worth doing, i do hope it does work, as i like to try it myself, More light penetration has to be a good thing, right?. Sorry if i missed it but has anyone documented success yet with this tec? Good Luck with it everyone!
Ive still not seen any conclusive evidence that this tec really works & is worth doing, i do hope it does work, as i like to try it myself, More light penetration has to be a good thing, right?. Sorry if i missed it but has anyone documented success yet with this tec? Good Luck with it everyone!
I read somewhere a plant without its leaves is like a Ferrari without its wheels.
I'm really curious if defoliating is such a good idea if you don't have a strain dialed in because back up nutrients are stored in leaves in case they become deficient...
I'm really curious if defoliating is such a good idea if you don't have a strain dialed in because back up nutrients are stored in leaves in case they become deficient...
Hey Scrogger, yeah I`ve never had any problems with infection of open "wounds on plants, though I`d never remove one where the stem enters a bud, that`d be asking for trouble fo sho. Other than that plants are amazingly quick at healing their wounds and it happens, albeit to a lesser extent in the wild. Good air movement and environment is assumed when I say that of course.
Yeah I`d agree, as close the the base of the stem as possible without damaging the growth you want to leave. Keep an eye on this scrogger, I`m sure ya will through my grow journal, I reckon its a must to remove at least quite a few of the fan leaves for many conventionally grown plants, where folding them out of the way only moves the leaf in the way of another bud somewhere below, unlike a sgrog where they can be moved and tucked down out of the way, though to be honest I`m not really sure how worth while this is in a scrog even. The reason for leaving them is so that the plant can use them as solar panels and so they can use up the stored nutrients, but if we tuck them out of the light they`re not being effective and give them what they want food wise, surely they shouldn`t need to rely on any nutes stored at all. Of course that doesn`t say that removing virtually all of the fans works out, but I dant see why the plant should struggle if there`s enough light getting anywhere and they`re fed what they want (or a bit less;-) ) and you know how I like to fook about a bit.
Have you given this tec a good looking at mate, as I can see lots of impressive fan leafless plants in full flower on this site, there are lots of ways to produce huge plentiful and potent buds, I`m sure this one of them. How easy it is to get it down, well I`m not sure about that one mate, but I`m going to give this treatment to two of the six Hog plants I`ve gotten hold of throughout veg I reckon, and put them in with the others next time around. I like the ideas behind this method and it has to be one of the most manageable plant set-ups if it works out well, plants can be vegged in the vegging closet for longer whilst a crop is in the finishing weeks, so no probs with extended vegging times for me.
Like you tho I fancy the idea of a vertical "V" scrog too tho, maybe grow after next if I dont get on with this method. Who knows, maybe a combo of the two methods. . . . . Mmm I wonder if a plant can handle that. . . . could be huge veg times scrogging slow moving plants. . . .
Cheers, Toke
Cheer`s Toke
The reason i dont remove the leaf close to the stem or at the node is simple.
i cannot see what is going on, ill explain.
lets say i have a fan leaf, that has a stem that is 3" in length.
if i only remove the leaf whilst pinching and plucking at the same time,then you sort of pinch the hole closed whilst removing the leaf at the same time. any moisture that leaves the stem will be 3" away from my bud.
now if i go in deep and remove the stem close to the main stalk/node.then i will still have this moisture leak, but it will now be close to the stem where it is harder to spot and can promote the growth of mould, because it my become encapsulated inside the bud structure.
so my conclusion is. better to have it as far away as possible but where i can see it than tucked away inside a bud where i cannot. and so far ive not even given mould a second thought,and nor do i intend to.
you do no that you can get spare wheels for Ferraris.
i cannot see what is going on, ill explain.
lets say i have a fan leaf, that has a stem that is 3" in length.
if i only remove the leaf whilst pinching and plucking at the same time,then you sort of pinch the hole closed whilst removing the leaf at the same time. any moisture that leaves the stem will be 3" away from my bud.
now if i go in deep and remove the stem close to the main stalk/node.then i will still have this moisture leak, but it will now be close to the stem where it is harder to spot and can promote the growth of mould, because it my become encapsulated inside the bud structure.
so my conclusion is. better to have it as far away as possible but where i can see it than tucked away inside a bud where i cannot. and so far ive not even given mould a second thought,and nor do i intend to.
you do no that you can get spare wheels for Ferraris.
Good point Bob, though I hate to take any leaf from within a bud. ;-) I dont see any reason that either of us would get a mold problem in good environments.
We all have our own favourite ways that we`ve learnt over years, there is no one right way of doing something, more like many variations on a theme ay guys? But we all hang out around here sharing ideas and taking on others, that`s what I love about this, as its not something we can openly chat about in the pub. I`ve seen so many different ways work really well to convince me of that, you only have to look around this site to see people succeeding in every different technique. Its also fun to play about and experiment, tho I probably work far too hard at trying to find the easiest way of producing lots of quality bud, lol. Heh heh, one day tho, I`ll have it all down.
Cheers, Toke
We all have our own favourite ways that we`ve learnt over years, there is no one right way of doing something, more like many variations on a theme ay guys? But we all hang out around here sharing ideas and taking on others, that`s what I love about this, as its not something we can openly chat about in the pub. I`ve seen so many different ways work really well to convince me of that, you only have to look around this site to see people succeeding in every different technique. Its also fun to play about and experiment, tho I probably work far too hard at trying to find the easiest way of producing lots of quality bud, lol. Heh heh, one day tho, I`ll have it all down.
Cheers, Toke
epicseeds
Member
Soooo, I just did the first defoliation session on my 28 day vegging plant. How does it look? I am worried I may have done too much! Do you literally just take off almost every leaf? How many times do I need to do this in veg?
Also, dont you think this could potentially shock a vegging plant into a hermie?
Sorry, forgot to do a before shot.
Also, dont you think this could potentially shock a vegging plant into a hermie?
Sorry, forgot to do a before shot.
SocoMMJ, where did you get those stands for your plants? Ive been wanting to get my plants off the ground for future grows, and those look perfect.
You can get those stands at Lowes....
2x2 lumber
Drywall screws
Waterproof wood glue
Gloss White Paint
The cheapo chair casters came from ebay.
Oh, yeah. Some assembly required
It sure is nice to stand upright while plucking leaves for 4 hours on a hydro unit.
I used to be fairly timid, but now I don't worry. Once you pluck the leaves the shoot next to the leaf will take off. I'm finding that it provides more tops than topping or FIM'ing. I tend to constantly pluck random large leaves from around the veg room. Sometimes the whole plant needs it if I get behind.
Under the 1000MH in veg, the canopy of the plant is filled back in within a week if the plant is plucked like a chicken. Under the T-5's it's a little slower.
B
blancorasta
same with me, at first it was just the largest fan leave creating shade, then before you know it im pullin every leaf that isnt new growth and they love it!
hey whats growing like in SoCol outdoor? how difficult is it to get legal in COL as compared to say cali?
peace
jgrow
Member
I started defoliation on a plant i have outdoors, probably four weeks in flower. I know your supposed to start in veg and this is critical, but i do believe that even removing fan leave that are shading other bud site will still help with yield. I didn't pick it to the bone but took 80% of fan leaves. Its been about a week so its hard to tell but im confident that this will increase yields, probably not like starting in veg but the whole plant is now getting more direct sunlight. Im glad i came across this thread. I have a trainwreck in veg right now that i have given a light trim on but will be waiting until my real real veg/flower room is done to really pick her clean. Thanks for the great info.
Colorado is not too hard to get a DR's rec. Haven't done any outdoor here, but you could pull it off with a fast plant. It snows in September.
Speaking of defoliation, we snapped this monster off of a plant a couple days ago. The center finger of the leaf was 11". I could be used as an umbrella for a tiny person. Thought it was pretty big for growing something inside the biosphere.
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