ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[JackTheGrower]

I think the 0x0 we have now is prohibition. How can going from none to some equal prohibition?? I think prohibition is about going from some to none, no?



There are no "new classes" all they did was make giving pot to an 18 to 21 year old the same penalty as if it was a beer. That's it..it's been pointed out to you before, many times. It's not a reason to cry or vote no. Just another thing a prohibitionist likes to lie about to spread FEAR. And when you say these things are added to make up prisoner profits...I laugh. Loudly. I would really like to hear your reasoning for that one.


oh and BTW....here is your 5x5 :

Now tell me that is not enough.

Ah but we both know they are new.

To me cannabis is safe. That someone is at a party and said they are 21 and turn out to be 20 should I get arrested?

So will this Site now really Support Prop 19? Will we require proof of everyone being a member and buying on the bay or boo to prove they are 21?

Do we here really support the 21 or do we just say we are?

Saying and Doing are two different things.

So In general I don't like going to jail for cannabis at all.

That's my gig..

 

[JackTheGrower]

Jack-
I'm a landlord. I have a rental house. MY LEGAL RIGHTS to protect my property exceed yours. If my renter is a mmj patient fine. He can grow his meds I have no problem with that. The renter has NO RIGHTS to cut holes in my ceiling, walls, floors or doors. He has no right to re-wire my electric wiring. He has no right to cause unsafe conditions that may cause mold. He has no right to damage MY PROPERTY. PERIOD.
Now, since it is against federal law, and I find out the tenant is growing mmj, I can still evict. Not something I would do but would be within my rights as the property owner to do so.
If the tenent is doing an illegal grow op and I don't know so be it. If I find out I do have to evict. Why? Because if the tenet gets busted and leo finds out that I know, I lose that house, my house and everything else I have is up for grabs because I knew and didn't turn him in.
So if you think you have rights as a tenet, you do. If you think you have rights to grow marijuana in my house,,,,those tenet rights just went out the window due to federal law being broken. Like it or not. I can do whatever I want to do in my house, you can't.
It is up to the landlord as to what they will allow on their property, not the renter.
It sounds mean, cruel, like I'm a son of a bitch, or whatever other words you want to use. But bottom line is this, as a landlord I have to protect me, my property, and my family. NOT YOU!

You already have contractual rights.

The idea that Prop 19 now states that the decision is the landlords alone may well create a situation where no gardens are allowed when folks can grow other plants say outside.

Don't ask me to fight your mind. You see the point that we cannabis growers need more footing to negotiate in a contract.. That Prop 19 seems to specifically grant the right to decide for Medical and non-medical without even a negotiation is suspect.

Wouldn't it be better if the law stated it is the intent of this to provide individuals with rights and liberties and property owners are required to negotiate?
I don't see real change happening until individuals get rights.

This damage issue you guys are tossing up since when does a piece of paper stop folks from damaging property?
It never will that is what the courts are for. Better that the property owners are required to negotiate then the tenants are sneaking their gardens still.

So what more can I offer on this position?

And why is everyone so hung up on production? Each and every objection is always about No production in my rented property.. What about the simple freedom to grow some plants in containers on the back porch?
Under Prop 19 it can be a blanket discrimination situation.

So everyone read this please I am for PEOPLE to have rights to grow Cannabis not Property and their owners.

Freedom for the PEOPLE.. Power to the PEOPLE..

So that is my point of view..


Go ahead and vote yourself less than full rights.. It's your responsibility to make a decision on Prop 19 so please do so.. Go Vote.

 

[JackTheGrower]

BTW....that pic is for visual purposes. The one that would be "legal" is just a bit smaller...but hold about the same. point is you can do a lot with 5x5

Yes you can I have a 4x4x2 soil box.

But I would be a criminal if I had a 5x5 and a clone room and a mother room and it all adds up to more than 25 sq ft.

 

[someotherguy]

some freedom is better than no freedom, Jack!
it's time you stopped sweating the small shit and
understand that this is only the first step!

total freedom is something that will take many years
and we will go through many stages as the laws are
refined.

to expect to go from total prohibition to total freedom
is completely unrealistic, naive even.

ask anyone who survived the civil rights movement
and they will tell you that the struggle continues,
even now freedom hasn't been achieved so to think
we can overcome 70+ years of oppression in one giant
leap is just a fantasy and standing in the way of some
freedom for all while you stamp your foot and demand
total freedom or no freedom is just wrong Jack, people
are still going to prison every day while we debate this
and if Prop 19 is defeated by LEO and those too idealistic
to accept partial freedom then many more will go to
prison while we hash out some nebulous future Prop.
that may take years to make it to the ballot.

i'm sorry Jack but you are wrong on this one, big time!

peace, SOG

 

[rives]

I think that this is somewhat akin to our nanny state going through parenting pains. When your kids turn 16 (or 13, or whenever their freedoms and responsibilities start increasing), you don’t give them the same level of freedom that they are going to enjoy as full adults. They may not be expected to be back in the house before dark any longer, but they sure don’t get the freedom to do whatever the hell they want. Prop 19 is a case of getting the camel’s nose under the edge of the tent. Pretty soon the whole damn camel is in there. It is going to take some time for people to get comfortable with the notion that all of the bullshit that they have heard over the years about mj is wrong. Once it is determined that civilization isn’t going to fail (at least at a faster rate than it already is), then things will loosen up more. We sure aren’t dealing with the same parameters today as when 215 was voted in, so why would you expect that to be the case with 19?

 

[kmk420kali]

The idea that Prop 19 now states that the decision is the landlords alone

It doesn't...it says,

Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property.

Bro, that does not give absolute power to the Landlord...it actually might give a legal defense for not asking permission, since it creates ambiguity--
There is no changing this Prop before the Vote...and it states that it is Amendable...why not use the next 2 years to find out first hand what probs might come from this...nothing saying there cannot be another Prop in 2012--

 

[vta]

Ah but we both know they are new.

To me cannabis is safe. That someone is at a party and said they are 21 and turn out to be 20 should I get arrested?

So will this Site now really Support Prop 19? Will we require proof of everyone being a member and buying on the bay or boo to prove they are 21?

Do we here really support the 21 or do we just say we are?

Saying and Doing are two different things.

So In general I don't like going to jail for cannabis at all.

That's my gig..

Everyone here thinks that part is lame. It's not called for but regardless, it's there. That is not reason enough to vote no. Even combined with your racist landlord fantasy.

Section 3: Lawful Activities

Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:
Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:

(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.

(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property

All those pages of wasted bandwidth because rented or leased property MAY be{as in might, could, maybe} subject to approval. So that means that a landlord has the right to forbid growing on HIS property if he so inclines. He would already needed to have that notion and insert that clause into the rental agreement. The thing is Jack...they already have the right and if 19 said otherwise it would be thrown out of court. 19 doesn't say "If you grow, you have to get permission from your landlord". Don't be such a fool. You don't have to tell your landlord if you grow. If you get caught by him and he evicts you, so what!! Your not going to jail! As you would without 19...Jack. There is no "racist conspiracy" for Christ sake. There is nothing...just the fact that 19 doesn't give you more rights than the guy that actually owns the fukin property. This is such a NON ISSUE it makes me wonder your real intentions here. 19 doesn't say you have to have your landlords permission to grow!! Page after page of this crap, trying to spread doubt and fear over something 19 couldn't even do if it wanted to, because a landlord can forbid ANY thing he wants. He doesn't like you...he makes you move out. Simple real world shit.

 

[vta]

It doesn't...it says,


Bro, that does not give absolute power to the Landlord...it actually might give a legal defense for not asking permission, since it creates ambiguity--
There is no changing this Prop before the Vote...and it states that it is Amendable...why not use the next 2 years to find out first hand what probs might come from this...nothing saying there cannot be another Prop in 2012--

Ha...I type slow....Great Post!

 

[JJScorpio]

WTF?

WTF?

To me cannabis is safe. That someone is at a party and said they are 21 and turn out to be 20 should I get arrested?

..

It's against the law now for someone 20 to be smoking Cannabis. Or 21. Or 31. Or 41.

WTF are you trying to prove?

 

[JJScorpio]

Yes you can I have a 4x4x2 soil box.

But I would be a criminal if I had a 5x5 and a clone room and a mother room and it all adds up to more than 25 sq ft.

If you had that now and weren't a 215'er you'd be going to prison and charged with a Felony. All of your arguments only validate voting yes....

 

[vta]

Yes you can I have a 4x4x2 soil box.

But I would be a criminal if I had a 5x5 and a clone room and a mother room and it all adds up to more than 25 sq ft.

Wait a second...your a med rec holder right? So how can you say you would be a criminal? Oh you mean the 'recreational' smoker....so because YOU think he needs more then 5x5, that this prop{the thing that would allow him to grow because he currently CANT}, is no good? That make absolutely no fucking sense at all! I know it's been said a thousand times already but...they had to but a limit in there for this to get the votes. It's tied into that whole regulation thingy.

Snap out of it!

 

[JackTheGrower]

Everyone here thinks that part is lame. It's not called for but regardless, it's there. That is not reason enough to vote no. Even combined with your racist landlord fantasy.



All those pages of wasted bandwidth because rented or leased property MAY be{as in might, could, maybe} subject to approval. So that means that a landlord has the right to forbid growing on HIS property if he so inclines. He would already needed to have that notion and insert that clause into the rental agreement. The thing is Jack...they already have the right and if 19 said otherwise it would be thrown out of court. 19 doesn't say "If you grow, you have to get permission from your landlord". Don't be such a fool. You don't have to tell your landlord if you grow. If you get caught by him and he evicts you, so what!! Your not going to jail! As you would without 19...Jack. There is no "racist conspiracy" for Christ sake. There is nothing...just the fact that 19 doesn't give you more rights than the guy that actually owns the fukin property. This is such a NON ISSUE it makes me wonder your real intentions here. 19 doesn't say you have to have your landlords permission to grow!! Page after page of this crap, trying to spread doubt and fear over something 19 couldn't even do if it wanted to, because a landlord can forbid ANY thing he wants. He doesn't like you...he makes you move out. Simple real world shit.

Wasted bandwidth? racist landlord fantasy?

Who was talking about Racism ? Cannabis hate and general cannabis oppression for many yes..

VTA don't go rabid on me here. I have as much right to join in as anyone does. I find it simply hateful that you would suggest I am sub-standard in trying to promote your position at my expense.

I live in the Central Vally and have been a medical person 10 years here I have experience and understanding because I have actually lived the life.

So knock it off man.. That is shitty writing.

Look if you guys want me out of the thread fine.. Just say so.

I have a voice of opposition and that is a good thing in a democracy.

How I am voting I still haven't decided.

 

[JackTheGrower]

It doesn't...it says,


Bro, that does not give absolute power to the Landlord...it actually might give a legal defense for not asking permission, since it creates ambiguity--
There is no changing this Prop before the Vote...and it states that it is Amendable...why not use the next 2 years to find out first hand what probs might come from this...nothing saying there cannot be another Prop in 2012--

Where is the part were the people have a right to grow as a mater of course.
That's my point. We have no standing to negotiate how we have to negotiate if.
Sound scary I know but I am for rights for people.

It doesn't mater friends.. This isn't important. It is an up or down vote on 19.

We can have better and we should al remember today that we may have to keep on going hard into 2012 especially if prop 19 fails to pass.
If we make another charge let's add more rights for people.
Like "it is assumed a person can grow cannabis so it is required for people who rent to make accommodations where possible for them especially medical people."
That is a very people oriented position.

Oh I know how dare the renter expect rights like that.

It's called Legalize it not decriminalize it.

So anyway.. Be well.

 

[JackTheGrower]

It's against the law now for someone 20 to be smoking Cannabis. Or 21. Or 31. Or 41.

WTF are you trying to prove?

Oh pardon it's hypothetical concepts.. Don't worry about it.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I'd love to be wrong on Landlords allowing cannabis as no big deal.. Just do it outside or do it in there.
But I doubt it will happen that way for many.

So we see with prop 19 the potential for some folks to make big money and have large grows and we see the potential for the common folks to be told no simply because they rent even if there is no damage from growing a plant in a pot of dirt.

It's shady legalization at it's best.

I will be available by email on the subject. I can't be any more clear.


be well friends..

 

[vta]

VTA don't go rabid on me here.

Alright...I had a few bong hits so now I've settled down.

It just bums me because for years I thought you were a freedom fighter and when we get a shot at loosening LEOs grip, you seem to turn. Of course I'd rather we be on the same page....but I'm afraid you may have gone rabid with wanting to much too fast. It's a fight just to get this restrictive 19 passed...that shows that a free for all would tank for sure. Lets get 19 passed and in a couple years when the non-tokers see that the sky hasn't fallen and all the money generated, then we try to push for more rights.

 

[sx646522]

...He doesn't like you...he makes you move out. Simple real world shit.

Sounds familiar. Good thing you all don't live in Asia. Spent several years in Real Estate on multiple continents. In most other countries, there's no such thing as Equal Opportunity and Fair Housing laws. I had clients that would tell me 'No Indians, or Japanese - or mainland Chinese. Find me a sandwich-eating White person' when they wanted to rent out their property.

Yes, they actually said that! I was appalled - at first. Completely legal to discriminate any damn way you please. And folks think it's entirely natural, and within their rights.

"I'm the property owner, after all - you mean, it's different elsewhere? Why? Filthy foreigners, I don't want them in my house! Don't respect my property, make a mess everywhere; they smell, their cooking smells - and try to get that Curry odor out of the damn rooms! I won't have it, I tell you!"

Now, try explaining actually growing in their house to them. Some of those countries had the death penalty for mere possession of very small amounts, for Allah's sake.

People should travel more and see what it's like outside of their little corner of the world. Then they'll appreciate what they do have that much more - at the very least.

Lets get 19 passed and in a couple years when the non-tokers see that the sky hasn't fallen and all the money generated, then we try to push for more rights.

Exactly. Socio-ideological change is traditionally slow to implement as people are naturally resistant to change, even if it is in their best interests. The only way to elicit true change - the kind that actually matters - is incrementally, over time.

You're steering a giant, fully laden oil tanker - it'll only turn so far so fast in a direction other than the one it's already traveling in. Inertia is a bitch.

Not to mention that there are BIG, well-funded interests that respond to their livelihood being threatened by instilling fear and ignorance in the general populace to further their agendas - as they always have. People react to issues emotionally, not rationally. In groups as opposed to distinct units, they are amazingly easy to control. Why do you think Fox News has better ratings now than during the last administration in the US? People are inundated with psychological conditioning from the moment they're born. Just observe a young child after they've watched TV for several hours.

Now fast-forward 40 years to when they've been subjected to that every day of their life:

Smoke and mirrors. Obfuscate the true issues with the trumped up ones and allow the real criminals to hide while getting away with murder. Control the media, control the populace - and woe to any who spoke out against them. Worked for Goebbels.

Things can sound a lot different if you just rephrase them:

"Genghis Khan had an active, outdoor lifestyle."

(Thank you, George Carlin. RIP)

There is a hidden Fascist state underneath the thin veneer most people refer to as society. Learn The Truth HERE.

Yes, I said the F-word. Deal with it. But educate yourself first.

And in my experience, there are no such things as coincidences. Just a pattern you haven't quite been able to discern yet.

-SX

 

[rick shaw]

Jack if these reasons are not enough for you.Bay area leos just arrested the four thugs that murdered a kid running a grow house in Hayward in February.Jack there a lot of bad guys out there,I did five years in Texas and one year in LA county.You want to put plants on your balcony.Let me know how that works out for you,being in a county with a 17% unemployment rate.

 

[resinryder]

Where is the part were the people have a right to grow as a mater of course.
That's my point. We have no standing to negotiate how we have to negotiate if.
Sound scary I know but I am for rights for people.


Oh I know how dare the renter expect rights like that.

It's called Legalize it not decriminalize it.

Jack you really make me laugh.
Here's the problem and a scenario for you and why a landlord would prohibit you from growing in his house if he wanted.

Lets say you set up a grow. You've set up everything the best you could on the budget you have to work with. After all it's not your property so what if you cut a few corners? After running for a while mold develops on the wall and the carpet. You try to fix it but you can't, or think you did but didn't, or you just ignore it all together. Now I as the landlord come in and do a yearly inspection or you haven't paid the rent, I show up and discover you have moved out and I find the mold. Now I have to have it removed. Now because you didn't fix it yourself or ignored it I have to call in a mold abatement company. They cut out the walls, remove the carpet, treat the floors(if they're cement) remove the floor if it's wood. Treat everything, reinstall the sheet rock, carpet, paint, etc.
Now, who is gonna pay for all that. You or ME??? What if you skip out and I find it? What if I don't have the cash on hand to have the mold removed? I loose the chance to rent my property because you fucked it up. I can't endanger tenants by renting them a house that I know mold is in. So it would have to sit empty.
And you want rights to tell me what I have to allow inside my property. lmao.

 

[binaryfission]

All those pages of wasted bandwidth because rented or leased property MAY be{as in might, could, maybe} subject to approval. So that means that a landlord has the right to forbid growing on HIS property if he so inclines. He would already needed to have that notion and insert that clause into the rental agreement. The thing is Jack...they already have the right and if 19 said otherwise it would be thrown out of court. 19 doesn't say "If you grow, you have to get permission from your landlord". Don't be such a fool. You don't have to tell your landlord if you grow. If you get caught by him and he evicts you, so what!! Your not going to jail! As you would without 19...Jack. There is no "racist conspiracy" for Christ sake. There is nothing...just the fact that 19 doesn't give you more rights than the guy that actually owns the fukin property. This is such a NON ISSUE it makes me wonder your real intentions here. 19 doesn't say you have to have your landlords permission to grow!! Page after page of this crap, trying to spread doubt and fear over something 19 couldn't even do if it wanted to, because a landlord can forbid ANY thing he wants. He doesn't like you...he makes you move out. Simple real world shit.

i <3 this post.

Look if you guys want me out of the thread fine.. Just say so.

i'll take the bait. i'ld love for you to leave the thread.

Pushing for legalization is great. The push you are making now is inherently impossible to implement. You'ld be altering basic contract law, forever. it won't work. and...IMO.....your inability to recognize this makes you insane, evil, or ignorant, again in my opinion.
Now ALL that, plus your inability to answer direct questioning, is enough for me to vote NO on you being in this thread with your continued blather.