ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[rick shaw]

I just got off the phone with Letita Pepper who authored the "Why Prop 19 will be bad for medical marijuana".She actually is a patient in a Riverside coop.We talked about her legal opinion,She feels that if this proposition passes its wording will trip up medical marijuana.She felt that Appellate Judge will rule on the wording as opposed to the spirit of the law.Letita feels the wording is to ambiguous,when I questioned her about existing law,as defined by the Ninth District Court of Appeals,she got defensive.If you want to call her (951)781-8883/(951)743-3387 Tell her a damn hippie bike messenger gave you her #

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

"Why are you here?"

Because of ridiculous statements started in the very first post like,
"there is no reason other than greed that would make someone vote no on this Bill."

"Or maybe don't even live in California?"

Born, raised, and still here. You back from the Netherlands, Sam? How's New York, JJ?

"Are you a 215 grower?"

Just a greedy ass 215 patient that lives in a 1 bedroom cabin in the redwoods that sells patients zips for 200 bucks when they offer 225. Harvested 1 pound and gave my friend a qp.

" am curious how you will react to the "manicuring union" when they demand $50 an hour and medical and paid vacations as well as a lot of other workers rights. I might think you would support them as you want to assure that workers, part of the 90% of americans that do the work, get their fair share?"

If the land/rent situation was not used against the people doing real work, I could give two shits about how much an hour, medical, or vacations. I could collect cans and grow my own food if I didn't have to pay such a backasswards system of land usage.

"But then again you don't like the government telling you what to do, so maybe you will just stay on the side of the 10% of Americans that own everything, and continue to screw any workers you use to help you, if any?"

I don't own anything anymore and I don't have workers. But if I did, the game is set up where you pay them as little as possible to maximize profits. Ain't capitalism great? That's why I live in the hills in a 1 bedroom cabin. I don't want to live off the backs of other humans like the people running this system.

"I noticed you never answered if you do buy gasoline, clothing, automobiles, or other taxed consumables that enrich big business and big government? If yes why do you support them, knowing they will be oppressing the workers?"

I do because I have no other choice. I do not like it and it is not necessary. The only tax we need is a land tax to set this system straight. We don't need any more taxes.

"It is the high prices combined with the growers not wanting to pass Prop 19 because it might upset their income flow, that I really call greedy."

In the last 10 years gas has doubled. Gold has tripled. Yet an ounce of cannabis has gone down in price. The prices may still be too high but they have been dropping over the last 10 years.

"so CrazyCooter, are you going to help your fellow workers and sell to them at a reasonable price, as well as give any workers that help you, full medical, paid vacations, and $50 an hour to manicure? Step up to the plate...."

I already do share at a below market price and sometimes for free. I battle every day with what I need to do to stay out of poverty and still not screw other humans. Lets just say I am still in poverty but content with not being a vampire. I manicure my own, don't have medical since my job was cut, and never worked for any company that offered to pay for a vacation.

I am anything but greedy and I still wouldn't vote yes for this legislation. That is why I was here.

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

How do you propose to solve a problem using the same political system that created it?

JJ,
I am not preaching life from a book. Just trying to let you guys know that there is a lot of good information about this political machine. The same system that locks you up is the same one you are depending on to free you. Good luck. As sam said, "I am pretty well read except for politics" This is politics. And the political tactics engaged in by you and herb are alienating, not enlightening. I am sure you have heard that a book is like your mind is like a parachute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs

"I was really hoping that you would try and answer my questions"

Hope this helps.

CC,
You are right that I live in the Netherlands but I vote in every California & USA election, as a non-voter, maybe you don't understand this?

200 an OZ makes you feel like you are doing the buyers a favor, yet what was the production cost? And were you selling it to workers you say are being kept down by the "man"?
Sad that you are proud of selling for $200, that which costs so much less to produce. Making a profit off of medical users that may be workers I presume? What is the difference between you and big biz or big government?

"I do because I have no other choice. I do not like it and it is not necessary."

Then don't do it.... Or quit telling others to fight new taxes and regulation until you yourself have stopped.

PS Thanks for answering my questions. I removed you from my ignore. I don't agree with you but I have an idea where you are coming from. And BTW I never said everyone that opposes Prop 19 is a greedy grower, just most. Some are just confused about priorities. Like worrying about new taxes and regulations while all the time cooperating and paying taxes on regulated items used in daily life. Seems contradictory at the least.

-SamS

 

[CrazyCooter]

I agree this merry go round has ran it's course. Nothing new has been brought to the argument in over 160 pages. Lock it or not, I'm done with this matter until we hear the results and witness the effects.

A true man of his word.

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

How do you propose to solve a problem using the same political system that created it?

To me the problem is not that the government has said that it is illegal to grow and consume cannabis. The problem is the decadent imperialist police state that has separated labor from land in order to manipulate the flow of wealth.

"Geeze Jack, you are starting to sound like Cooter! This isn't "The Man keepin the poor people down" you know. this is again a common sense thing."

Jack,
The sense most common in America today is nonsense.
It is frightening how hard this is for people to understand but you are correct on the land issue. That is why I posted in this thread in the first place. There are others who really think before reacting to the bells and whistles of "legalization", I mean regulate, control, and tax. Stick to your guns and maybe someone will educate themselves so they can understand what you are saying. Land access is the issue for the laborer under all -isms.

http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm

A man without land is nothing more than a wage slave. The problem has been explained multiple times and a solution has been put forth as well. It may take a trip to the library, if they haven't removed the book, or the bookstore, or even a few hours of reading on the internet instead of alienating others in this thread.
But it is easier to project your hopes into vaguely written legislation, turn your back on history, and got to the polls on Nov. 2 to show your support for the fascist system that caused this mess in the first place.

Herb,
I really don't mind how people vote on this as the polls are just that, a poll on the consensus of the public. The political tactics employed by yourself and others are quite shameful, especially if you want us to all be in this together.

 

[binaryfission]

what the solution to your fictious landowner problem. free land? who determines whats mine?

my long rifle? i don;t see how your system is workable. its great imagery and you use neat quotes but it isn't real-world workable.

our present system is the best system ever created. it solves or attempts to solve every problem you bring up better than any other system invented. Period.

SO create another thread or do it here., but lay out your solution to these problems. let us assume your position and start taking pot shots with fancy rhetoric and over used quotes.

I challenge either of you, CrazyCooter or JacktheGrower. Present a workable solution to this problem that fixes the others you bring up and is currently workable in America today. If it suits you, rewrite the constitution to fix these land owners problems and all the other crap and present it here. if you guys are so enlightened, teach a brother to fish.

Present a solution or stop trolling.

 

[StoneElemental]

So, you're comparing the Harry Anslinger circus in the '30's that lead up to the kangaroo court embedding the horror of the "Marijuana Tax Stamp Act" to modern times? A man hugely corrupt coupled with greed and ignorance compared to a modern civilian proposal? Fuck me I thought I was delusionally paranoid sometimes. Someone should probably see if this guy has a coke stash he's been lacing his herb with. The proposal is meant to be vague for further legislation either way. With the strong movement we already have going it's hard to believe that anyone at all involved would allow it to turn sour or worse. I still stand firm as a stone that this prop 19 for our most current times is a politically, morally and most of all publicly sound bill to set into legislatement as our first small but positive step to further and gain momentum in the movement. Put down the media for a while guys and observe outside yourself.

-S.E.

A true man of his word.

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

How do you propose to solve a problem using the same political system that created it?

 

[JJScorpio]

Reading this, it seems some are pretending that land is owned "only by the rich".

Most people I know that own land got it through hard work. You get a job, save your money until you have enough, pay the down payment and get a loan. Through hard work you now own land.

Anyone can own land that wants to follow those rules. Yes, some are "privileged" and parents helped them "skip the steps" and bought land for them. But most people did it the old fashioned way.

Now, anyone that grows, knows that growing can be messy at times. Especially for those people that don't keep things clean. It's easy for mold to get started from runoff off pots, spilled water and dirt, and many other things.

Why should someone that worked hard to buy a house, and now renting it be forced to allow someone to do this to their property? Most people that rent don't take the best care of the rental property. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Over the years I've made a lot of money repairing property destroyed by renters. And because of what I've seen I probably wouldn't want the average person using my property to grow. Holes in walls, food tracked into expensive carpets, gouged wooden floors, dog and cat feces and urine soaked floors, and the list goes on.

I'm not sure how this argument got onto the landlord, tennant issue. But it seems rediculous to me. I know everyone isn't irresponsible that rents. But from my experience I have seen that if someone doesn't own something, they usually don't take care of it. It's just the way it is.

I think arguing against legalization because a renter can't possibly destroy someones property is rediculous. I'm sorry but I do.

 

[dagnabit]

never buy a rental car
and
never marry the town whore.

same reasons

 

[nomaad]

JJ, I agree with your last post. Arguing against 19 based on the property argument is nonsense. grasping at straws. get over it.

if you'd like to argue against property itself, that's a different story. But based (in our shared reality) on the prevalent economic system in the United States, which includes the idea of private property, it is ridiculous to argue that the owner of said property should not be able to decide what happens on his or her property. And it is ridiculous to argue that 19 is somehow flawed by reiterating that one must own the property or have the express permission of the owner to grow there.

 

[JJScorpio]

I might add something else.

I rented when younger. And grew. In a 25 sq foot grow, if you're keeping it clean you should be able to do it anyways. A Landlord must give 24 hrs notice prior to inspecting property. You should be able to hide this for the inspection. And most landlords will only do a couple inspections and if things are cool they leave you alone......

 

[rives]

The problem is the decadent imperialist police state that has separated labor from land in order to manipulate the flow of wealth.

This has gotten bizarre.

 

[dagnabit]

This has gotten bizarre.

no its typical first year "higher education" socialist bullshit indoctrination. not bizarre unfortunately.

 

[rives]

no its typical first year "higher education" socialist bullshit indoctrination. not bizarre unfortunately.

Pretty much where I was going with it. The statement took me back to my lower division sociology class, about 35 years ago. I recognized bullshit then, and it hasn't gotten any more believable in the interim.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Reading this, it seems some are pretending that land is owned "only by the rich".

Most people I know that own land got it through hard work. You get a job, save your money until you have enough, pay the down payment and get a loan. Through hard work you now own land.

Anyone can own land that wants to follow those rules. Yes, some are "privileged" and parents helped them "skip the steps" and bought land for them. But most people did it the old fashioned way.

Now, anyone that grows, knows that growing can be messy at times. Especially for those people that don't keep things clean. It's easy for mold to get started from runoff off pots, spilled water and dirt, and many other things.

Why should someone that worked hard to buy a house, and now renting it be forced to allow someone to do this to their property? Most people that rent don't take the best care of the rental property. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Over the years I've made a lot of money repairing property destroyed by renters. And because of what I've seen I probably wouldn't want the average person using my property to grow. Holes in walls, food tracked into expensive carpets, gouged wooden floors, dog and cat feces and urine soaked floors, and the list goes on.

I'm not sure how this argument got onto the landlord, tennant issue. But it seems rediculous to me. I know everyone isn't irresponsible that rents. But from my experience I have seen that if someone doesn't own something, they usually don't take care of it. It's just the way it is.

I think arguing against legalization because a renter can't possibly destroy someones property is rediculous. I'm sorry but I do.

Again you don't see what is happening in California.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I might add something else.

I rented when younger. And grew. In a 25 sq foot grow, if you're keeping it clean you should be able to do it anyways. A Landlord must give 24 hrs notice prior to inspecting property. You should be able to hide this for the inspection. And most landlords will only do a couple inspections and if things are cool they leave you alone......

So we are now okay with this because we can hide?

 

[JackTheGrower]

My contribution in this thread is to counter far right fantasy.

So that is the scope of my posting. It is not personal.

 

[kmk420kali]

Jack, I usually see where you are coming with things, even if I don't agree....but on this Property point, I just do not understand your point-- Could you please clarify...as I see nothing in here that states non land owners don't have the same Rights as land owners....it even states you can grow on a friends property...whether you are an occupant or not--
Not trying to argue here...I just don't understand your stance on this--

 

[dagnabit]

i guess i have to say vote no..

there is no provision protecting the homeless from discrimination! it basically places those greedy ultra right fuckholes living in their homes trying to determine the rights of other citizens over the poor unfortunate homeless!

i fully support the complete repeal of 215 and the creation of a new piece of legislation making ANY possession whatsoever a felony until the scourge of homeless discrimination and class warfare is ended!!

will you stand with me?!?!?

no one will stand with me?

 

[localhero]

if it were legal to grow in your rental property without permission, the owners would still find ways to boot you if they didnt want you there. and they would keep your deposit

apartment growing is always a gamble. i got a spot a few years back in downtown la with the intention of growing. it was an old bank converted into a loft and would have been perfect except for the management decided they wanted to inspect my place atleast once a week. no joke. once aweek for a year. notice for for electical inspection, notice for mandatory bug spraying, notice for plumbing, notice for building inspectors, notice for fire sprinklers. it was never ending. dont rent in a building under construction lol.

 

[JJScorpio]

Again you don't see what is happening in California.

Listen, you have made a big deal that this law will violate someone's right because it's up to the Landlord whether someone can grow on his property.

You seem to be under the assumption that because you rent, it gives you the right to do anything. With that thinking a landlord would have no control over pets or anything else that could cause thousands of dollars in damage.

If I were a landlord and someone wanted to grow, the least I'd require would be a substantial security deposit to cover damages. It doesn't take much to cause a lot of dollars in damage and as I said, from my prespective I've noticed very few renters give a crap regarding causing damage to someone elses house.... And if they had the money to give for the security deposit they'd be owning their own property. Renters usually rent because they don't have thousands of extra dollars....

If you owned a house and the tennant let runoff seep onto the floor and it rotted the plywood and the flooring are you just going to laugh when you fork out a couple grand to repair it?

 

[JackTheGrower]

No i didn't say it violates someone rights I said the rights to have a garden depends on a property owner authorizing it.

Giving one class of citizen power over another like Fascism.

Why is it that supporters of Prop 19 are also anti-democracy?