Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[smokefrogg]

Smokefrog, you need to get your plants out of the dixie cups and into something larger. The leaf curling on them is because they are root bound.

thanks dave, i hear ya', there's just not enough room in the space i have for several large containers, yet...

 

[disciple]

 

[darrmann]

Hey im on my first grow and didnt defoliate during veg as had read so much conflicting advice but when i got to 3rd week of flowering i had to start deleafing as there was nowhere near enough light getting through. Now in 5th week & the bud sites have thickened big time & lower bud sites are going crazy.

I just wonder why you say this as i havent seen any probs wit doing it late but am i missing something? Is there a specific reason you shouldnt? Been my 1st grow im learning the whole time.

Wicked thread

Ill tell you you wont get the bushy plants you do when you start in veg. I got excited by the prospect of this in the 2nd week of my former grow and they turned out fine,nice buds up and down but all seperate . this time started like was supposed to in veg and there so much different.there now 2 weeks in flower and there the bushiest things i have ever seen. They each have no fewer then 8-12 tops some with a couple more. I did a defol. in week one and then the other half 3 days ago on the 2 week mark and wont be able to tell till end which is better. But ill tell you another major dif is the internode spacing. im giong to have buds from tip to the stalk the way the nodes look so close together. so excited to see the finish product. heres some pics of before and after and just 2 weeks woo hoo. The 1st one is the ones that were defoli. in 1st week hard to see the real bushy ones that were defoli. in 2nd week. close to same size but nodes on plants trimmed in 1st week seem closer.

 

[darrmann]

can't wait to try this on some of my girls

has anyone tried this with vertical and saw yield improvements as well?

medmaker I am on my first full defolation and cant reaaly say but i can tell you im seeing an avereage of 8 to 10 tops with a few extremely nice ones with up to 15. most 10. But the internode spacing is what i really like looks like ill have one big bud from tip to base and there about 1/2" apart. I dont bend mine over just slightly out to get even more light on every bit of the girls.I am serios as hell when I say i have no doubt unless something drastic happened, but if it goes fine to harvest no doubt will double my yeild. The way i looked at it in the beginning,doubting this thread and myself. Saying what about what ed said in the grow bible. I finally broke down and tried with the whole lot. What about the guy who invented FI(fuck I missed) technique. No one topped there plants before that. also we create are own photosynthesis. We ceate carbohydrates with molasses and we give it the co2 and intense light and water. We basically force photosynthesis by sealed rooms and all of the above i mentioned. and another peice of info i learned was that after a certain point in flower all of the larger leaves are useless they actually shut down. There making a chem know called shooting powder that actually pulls all the energy and sugars out of these leaves.If you google it they will explain more.

 

[Herbal extasy]

I noticed, that this procedure should be done to every plant in grow. If just defoliate one plant, it lags behind others which are already ready to go flower... Well, this was my test, but I rather select faster grow cycles over slighty better yield.

 

[Fat J]

Yeah, the bushy ones will crowd them out...

 

[High Country]

There is no reason to think that leaf removal will disrupt the effectiveness of co2 enrichment. The actual loss of leaf mass or leaf surface area for co2 absorbtion from defoliation is temporary and quickly replaced by, what amounts to, more surface area by the generation of larger leaves in the lowers and midsection.

My setups are SCROGs. Check out my albums to see the lightweight net. You are right that this is an extension of SCROG. The idea being that the screen is used to force spreading, or in my case used to support branches that are bent out radially and horizontal from the center. This allows all the bud to develop in the most premium light column.

My general advice would be if one is SCROGging they should try defoliating and, conversely, if one is defoliating they should try SCROGging. Both methods are complementary and serve the endgame of more production from limited area and light. I can't fault LifeLess and d9nxs for not using SCROG as they are clearly getting very nice results without resorting to bending like mine.

Your general advice is sound. I don't do it cos I grow SOG'S. Indica, clones straight on to 12/12, 4 per sq/ft, 1000W, single cola style for a 3x3 table. The plants never get big enough to lack light from the top to the bottom so I don't really find it necessary. But I can see your idea.

 

[Puddin'tane]

k33ftr33z,
great thread! I only just happened upon it and 78 pages is a hell of a read to find the answer to my one question, but what happens if you don't defoliate in veg but start in early flower? (besides the obvious, stalling bud production)
I know the plant will try playing catch up with itself focusing on making more fans when it should be making bud
Is there a way to defoliate starting in early flower with no ill results?
my plant is outdoors btw.

 

[delta9nxs]

k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!

i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.

so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96, 12.35, 14.74, 18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 73.23 or an average of 14.65 each.

my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.

a total difference of 20.78 or 4.16 zips per plant.

i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.

at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.

thanks k33ftr33z!

 

[bigtopsfinn]

k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!

i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.

so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96,12.35,12.45,18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 70.94. or an average of 14.19 each.

my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.

a total difference of 18.49 or 3.70 zips per plant.

i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.

at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.

thanks k33ftr33z!

What were your veg & flower cycle times with the non-defol and defol?

 

[delta9nxs]

What were your veg & flower cycle times with the non-defol and defol?

hey! before DF 8 weeks veg, 9 weeks flower. although i did increase veg from 7 to 8 weeks during the middle of this period.

with DF all were vegged 8 weeks and flowered 8 weeks. so DF shaved a week off my flower time.

the buds are just as ripe but a week earlier.

 

[Bob-Hope]

plants have had 3 days veg in the wilma.and are on day 1 of 12/12.
in 3 days gone from this.

to this,

largest plant is now a massive 17". Hopefully by the end of the first 14 days this will of doubled, giving me much needed room laterally,as i intend to bend and twist them.

Bob

 

[Dave Coulier]

leaf curl is lack of turgor as a result of loss of osmotic pressure.

more light is required OR a lower ec/tds/ppm when feeding.

in this case lowering the ec/tds/ppm and extending the time between waterings/feedings is an appropriate course of action to consider.

I understand what you are saying, but I have recently had alot of the same symptoms when I kept my clones in dixie cups too long. I could see at what point they went from being normal(small clones), to looking similar to his(about the same size).

And each time I transplanted them into 1 gallon growbags, they immediately returned to normal in 3-5 days.

 

[LifeLess]

Great numbers there delta.
Today is Update day for me so here they are day 26. I started defoli on day 14 bloom and did a 2nd defoli on day 22. Heres what i have so far. Peace LL

Day 14 Before


Day 14 After


Day 18


Day 22 Before 2nd defoli


Day 22 After


Today day 26

 

[disciple]

 

[b00m]

I like your plants LL, they seem to be responding quite well to the defoli technique. Thanks for sharing your pics with all of us bro, it's good to see the comparison shots.

 

[k1k1]

bonjour messieurs

je suis un ptit français qui aimerait connaître votre méthode et la faire connaître aux membre du forum francophone sur lequel je suis inscrit...

la traduction faite par Google n'est pas satisfaisante et je ne parle pas assez bien l'anglais pour bien comprendre ce dont vous parlez...

si quelqun parle le français ici ce serait très sympa de tout m'expliquer

au plaisir de vous lire

K1K1

 

[maitai]

Has anyone tried this with soil? I was so excited about trying this but have had to transplant from hydro to soil recently...

 

[Dropastone]

bonjour messieurs

je suis un ptit français qui aimerait connaître votre méthode et la faire connaître aux membre du forum francophone sur lequel je suis inscrit...

la traduction faite par Google n'est pas satisfaisante et je ne parle pas assez bien l'anglais pour bien comprendre ce dont vous parlez...

si quelqun parle le français ici ce serait très sympa de tout m'expliquer

au plaisir de vous lire

K1K1

I don't speak french and I was curious about what he said.

Translated

I am a French ptit which would like to know your method and to make known it with the member of the French-speaking forum on which I am registered… translation made by Google n' is not satisfactory and I do not speak l' rather well; English for including/understanding well that about which you speak… if somebody speaks French here they would be very sympathetic of all m' to explain with the pleasure of reading you

 

[k1k1]

merci DROPASTONE mon ami

ici en Europe dans les forums francophones que je parcours personne a ma connaissance ne parle de votre technique que je trouve très intéressante...

l'augmentation de rendement est assez impressionnante pour que nous nous y intéressions..

merci d'avance a tous pour les renseignements que vous pourriez me fournir..en français lol