KRUSTY, AGAIN

[DIAMOND MOFO]

what are the chances of bud rot if i don't use dehueys in a 5kwatt hid, a/c cooled, big plant coco room?
do i def need a dehuey?
if i yes, what brands should i loot at, hydrofarm? thanks

 

[DHF]

I can`t stress the importance of a top shelf dehuey enough......Sante Fe is the Mercede`s of dehuey`s and costs accordingly , but uses less power than units half the size and pulls double the amount of moisture from the growroom air , and yes.......

Dehuey`s run high wattage like using more lights , and that`s why an investment in a unit that works harder and uses less power is paramount in dialing late flower conditions to absolutely prevent budrot, powdery mildew , and any other pathogenic/fungus in your room........

My first purchase would be the biggest Santa Fe unit I could afford........Need I say more ?........Environment`s EVERYTHING in pullin down the gpw`s......way more important than what size container to use ,or medium , or system........

Way more important than how much light you`re gonna blast their ass with......

Get your air exchange , a/c , wall fans for circulation above and below the canopies , dehuey`s dialed out , and the rest will take care of itself.......

Peace....DHF...................

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

I can`t stress the importance of a top shelf dehuey enough......Sante Fe is the Mercede`s of dehuey`s and costs accordingly , but uses less power than units half the size and pulls double the amount of moisture from the growroom air , and yes.......

Dehuey`s run high wattage like using more lights , and that`s why an investment in a unit that works harder and uses less power is paramount in dialing late flower conditions to absolutely prevent budrot, powdery mildew , and any other pathogenic/fungus in your room........

My first purchase would be the biggest Santa Fe unit I could afford........Need I say more ?........Environment`s EVERYTHING in pullin down the gpw`s......way more important than what size container to use ,or medium , or system........

Way more important than how much light you`re gonna blast their ass with......

Get your air exchange , a/c , wall fans for circulation above and below the canopies , dehuey`s dialed out , and the rest will take care of itself.......

Peace....DHF...................

word. will do. thanks ded.

is this one necessary? http://www.thermastor.com/Santa-Fe-Max-Dry/
or can i just get a 100 pint per day, the santa fe classic?

i know how to calculate a/c needs, can you vouch for a brand, or brands, and model. I'm looking for a mini split 18,000btu or 24,000btu. heating and cooling or just cooling.

i've read that friedrichs and lgs are good.

cheers DHF.

 

[*mistress*]

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

here is my shopping list:


LIGHT
4 x1000w hortilux hps lamps (discount hydro or ebay)
5 x 1000w valuline switchable ballast
1 x1000w super blue mh

AC
Friedrich AC 24,000 BTU seer18 model[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]# M24CF[/FONT] (kingersons.com) (call manufacturer for refurbished model)
Final install by HVAC technician


HUMIDITY
Santa Fe classic dehumidifier


CO2
CO2 regulator CAP
CO2 fuzzy logic controller/monitor
2x 50lb CO2 tanks

OTHER
watering hose with valve for daily watering
6x rubbermaid 20gal totes for pots
blue labs combo meter
manual test kits
nutrients
roll of panda film
carbon scrubber diy
mag pump for hand watering
bags of coir
oscillating wall mounted fans
misc. construction supplies for room


am I missing anything? what do you recommend for water, R/O?

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

tomato plants can get large in just 4-5gals.


??

passive h!dr0. nyl0nn/p0ly material
8wks

any tomato seads... maybe from fruit after eat
mix in bowl. dont label. grow all out.
select best 1-2 for desired traits

"passive hydro" = not top feeding, hand watering to area near bottom of plant and letting wick action of coco bring nutrients up to roots throughout pot?
~
8 weeks from start of seed till you put in veg room, or, eight weeks of clone growth from day of cut to end of eight weeks?

thanks Mistress.

so grow a bunch of seeds and select favorite plants after maybe eight weeks?

 

[mrdizzle]

clone to flip, if your not going to do a krusty style hydro or a MPB it takes a while to get a 1.5-2lb plant

I would run a hempy style, watering every other day or every day, I wouldnt go the wick route, it without a doubt works, but I believe you can get faster growth with a hempy

depends on strain thou to be honest, you need to flip at around 3.5x3.5ft or 4x4ft to end with a 5x5er

plants dont stretch that much with vertical trees they just get busher, you can peep my mpb trees on the farm

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

clone to flip, if your not going to do a krusty style hydro or a MPB it takes a while to get a 1.5-2lb plant

I would run a hempy style, watering every other day or every day, I wouldnt go the wick route, it without a doubt works, but I believe you can get faster growth with a hempy

depends on strain thou to be honest, you need to flip at around 3.5x3.5ft or 4x4ft to end with a 5x5er

plants dont stretch that much with vertical trees they just get busher, you can peep my mpb trees on the farm

please explain "hempy style".

"flip" means to go from veg cycle to flower cycle?

bushy is good. i want to grow afghan indica and from what i have gathered it grows bushy, perhaps even more horizontal than vertical. want to grow "ducksfoot" too but cant seem to find it. going to just use g13, white rhino and afghan.

thanks for your input.

if i start with seed how long will it take to get it to the flower stage for a 5' bush?

gonna check your threads.

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

clone to flip, if your not going to do a krusty style hydro or a MPB it takes a while to get a 1.5-2lb plant

I would run a hempy style, watering every other day or every day, I wouldnt go the wick route, it without a doubt works, but I believe you can get faster growth with a hempy

depends on strain thou to be honest, you need to flip at around 3.5x3.5ft or 4x4ft to end with a 5x5er

plants dont stretch that much with vertical trees they just get busher, you can peep my mpb trees on the farm

i'm having a bit of trouble finding your mpb thread. link?

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

DHF

is there a sweet spot as far as yield and amount of plants per light, not including sog method? a method that is relatively low in plant number count. i heard one grower say eight plants per 1k light. would those eight be in one, two, three gallon pots? how would they be arranged around verticals? if you follow me on this, what is you opinion on medium or small size plants per light if the aim is yield?

is there a record of anyone arranging plants in rings around 600watt lights? say four plants per light?

im thinking that in order to get to the efficient gpw ratio with 5 lights on four plants i will have to hit 2.25lb each plant. that seems to be a pretty high a mark, especially for myself who has limited experience.

im just trying to figure out the best method and arrangement and low number of plants.

 

[ZENARCADE]

clone to flip, if your not going to do a krusty style hydro or a MPB it takes a while to get a 1.5-2lb plant

I would run a hempy style, watering every other day or every day, I wouldnt go the wick route, it without a doubt works, but I believe you can get faster growth with a hempy

depends on strain thou to be honest, you need to flip at around 3.5x3.5ft or 4x4ft to end with a 5x5er

plants dont stretch that much with vertical trees they just get busher, you can peep my mpb trees on the farm

Hey mrdizzle, I lurk at the farm but I only usually post here, I've been watching your latest grow over there, great stuff!!!!!!!

 

[DHF]

Mr Dizz knows his biz Diamond , and he`s right about if not usin a fast hydro recirculating setup , it takes a fair amount of time ta veg big plants to the size of krusty buckets, mpb`s , or undercurrents ....

And since indica`s don`t stretch much but rather bush out sideways with bare bulbs , for yields with low plant numbers , they`ll haveta be a certain size before the flip to bloom cycle 12/12..........

I`ll never forget the first indica run on the forums in krusty`s.....The guy was runnin sensi star and filled a damn warehouse up with em......I`m talkin like 20 KW of lights and I think 20 plants with ALL the bells and whistles including CO2..........

He followed the Klown`s instructions to the T , but didn`t know about indica`s not stretchin upwards but rather bushin out sideways with vertical bare bulbs.........

He only vegged em couple weeks like we used ta run our hybrids that stretched like a mofo to the ceilings , and come choptime , they had maybe 12-14 ozs per plant and barely paid for their power bill and equipment..........

So........that being said along with you just gettin yer feet wet , my vote goes for more plants runnin coco dtw and veggin em maybe 30 days before flip to let em bush out while keepin the lights right down amongst em for as much lateral light into the bushes/sideways canopy as possible since there`s not gonna be any vertical growth during the stretch for increased yields like where krusty buckets usedta shine like a mofo........

It`s a proven fact that plant numbers dictate yield , and that`s why all my Growbro`s on the left coast that do this shit for a livin , set up clone factories and run SOG with no veg and straight rooted cuts into the bloom rooms.......

More harvey`s per yr equals more cubby in da hole come Christmas ..........no way around it.......

4 plants to the sq ft on flood tables is babyshit to run and they damn near grow themselves like my old ebb and flow buckets usedta do.........So........

2 lbs per light..........babyshit......3 lbs per light.......lil more dialage and experience involved.......4 lbs per light is mostly what my boys that run rooted cuts in outrageous numbers with strains they`ve developed and ran for yrs in medville and don`t care about the plant numbers.......

One Bro`s clone factory makes more sellin trays of cuts to the clubs up and down the coast than he does off his flood and drain tables , and he`s the one that hits right around 4 lbs per every run with 1/2 oz + budsicles......

It`s all in how far down into the rabbit hole yas wanna travel huntin fer Alice Diamond........Your shoppin list sounds okies , but I`d shitcan the CO2 and learn your strains........

Monocrop/Dial em till yas can`t squeeze anuther gram out of em and THEN add CO2 to see if yields will increase...........To insure less problems with coco get Canna pre washed in the bags and run canna nutes.......

Once you get some experience under yer belt , then you can start experimentin with additives and shit.......Cal/Mag plus is a must but it`s cheap by the gallon........

I`m tellin yas......Blue Haze`s thread in coco is about as straightforward and easy as babyshit to grow 1 lb plus plants with barebulbs as I ever saw.......I`d setup a rez and run those new "tropf blumat maxi outdoor sensors" for a dialed setup that runs itself and grows bigger plants......1 lb plant ain`t nuthin but money in my book.........with several of em..........

What`re your goals Diamond from the first run......1 gpw ?......That`s 5 kilo`s/5000 grams/11 lbs US.....So 2.2 lbs per light with 5 lights gives you the dilemma of settin up enough smaller plants around those vertical bare bulbs to accomplish your goals without said plants not gettin too big and making each plant compete for environment AND light for optimum conditions to produce the bottom line yields you require ta pay tha bills.......

Look Bro........rather than me clog this thread up cuz I could write volumes on dialage , perpetual setups with flip flop rooms , and the ability to pull more harveys per yr..........PM me when yas get all yer shit and figure out which way yas wanna run.......

I`m here ta help with many yrs of doin this , and bored from shutdown so hit me up when needed......

Peace........DHF...........

 

[mrdizzle]

please explain "hempy style".

"flip" means to go from veg cycle to flower cycle?

bushy is good. i want to grow afghan indica and from what i have gathered it grows bushy, perhaps even more horizontal than vertical. want to grow "ducksfoot" too but cant seem to find it. going to just use g13, white rhino and afghan.

thanks for your input.

if i start with seed how long will it take to get it to the flower stage for a 5' bush?

gonna check your threads.

Seed is going to take another 6wks to get things going I would say

a hempy style is airy medium, 75%perlite, 25% vermi or coco, there are a ton of good threads that can help you better understand the method. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98419&highlight=hempy

basically a drain 2in up the side of your pot, you put hydroton at the bottom of the pot up till just covering the overflow. I used to use a 3/4in ebb n flow fitting as my drains, top water until water starts to flow out the drain, so that you have a min res in the pot that last a day or two. you can easily plumb tubing off the drain so you can water and let the overflow drain out of the room. you will need some support via cages or pvc in that style medium but its a fool proof system and the growth is much much faster than coco

here my first ever mpb http://www.*********.com/forums/f131/mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-14921/

 

[Apache123]

clone to flip, if your not going to do a krusty style hydro or a MPB it takes a while to get a 1.5-2lb plant

I would run a hempy style, watering every other day or every day, I wouldnt go the wick route, it without a doubt works, but I believe you can get faster growth with a hempy

depends on strain thou to be honest, you need to flip at around 3.5x3.5ft or 4x4ft to end with a 5x5er

plants dont stretch that much with vertical trees they just get busher, you can peep my mpb trees on the farm

Thanks Mr Dizzle, I really enjoy your grow logs on the farm too. What happened to DD? I haven't seen him in a while.

 

[mrdizzle]

I suspect something legally but who knows really. he did have that scare a while back perhaps it came around again. He did claim to be fully legal but you never know, haha he might have just got tired of all the questions

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

It`s a proven fact that plant numbers dictate yield , and that`s why all my Growbro`s on the left coast that do this shit for a livin , set up clone factories and run SOG with no veg and straight rooted cuts into the bloom rooms.......

4 plants to the sq ft on flood tables is babyshit to run and they damn near grow themselves like my old ebb and flow buckets usedta do.........So........

2 lbs per light..........babyshit......3 lbs per light.......lil more dialage and experience involved.......4 lbs per light is mostly what my boys that run rooted cuts in outrageous numbers with strains they`ve developed and ran for yrs in medville and don`t care about the plant numbers.......

max i can do is 18 plants. so that is about 4 plants per 1k light. so the more the merrier, is that the theory, more smaller plants is always going to beat out lower number larger plant? if i do four per plant am i still going to arrange the room with vertical bare bulbs?

Monocrop/Dial em till yas can`t squeeze anuther gram out of em and THEN add CO2 to see if yields will increase...........To insure less problems with coco get Canna pre washed in the bags and run canna nutes.......

what does "monocrop" mean? 1 strain? or one crop going at a time?

ok. I'll hold off one the CO2 even though I love the idea that I can easily kill any bugs that come my way. how do I keep the air fresh while also running a/c?

Once you get some experience under yer belt , then you can start experimentin with additives and shit.......Cal/Mag plus is a must but it`s cheap by the gallon........

I`m tellin yas......Blue Haze`s thread in coco is about as straightforward and easy as babyshit to grow 1 lb plus plants with barebulbs as I ever saw.......I`d setup a rez and run those new "tropf blumat maxi outdoor sensors" for a dialed setup that runs itself and grows bigger plants......1 lb plant ain`t nuthin but money in my book.........with several of em..........

I'm going to find that thread. I read lazyman's thread. His room is awesome but so chaotic and not really dialed in yet so I can't determine the efficiency of his system. But there is a lot there to like.

What`re your goals Diamond from the first run......1 gpw ?......That`s 5 kilo`s/5000 grams/11 lbs US.....So 2.2 lbs per light with 5 lights gives you the dilemma of settin up enough smaller plants around those vertical bare bulbs to accomplish your goals without said plants not gettin too big and making each plant compete for environment AND light for optimum conditions to produce the bottom line yields you require ta pay tha bills.......

1 g per w would be a huge success. of course i will aim higher. my goal is max gpw with 18 or less plants. im 100% legal.

yeah, figuring out how many plants and in what containers and then the medium is where i am at.

hopefully the strains i have chosen are good. im going to start from seed and keep moms so long as they produce efficiently, ideally.

Look Bro........rather than me clog this thread up cuz I could write volumes on dialage , perpetual setups with flip flop rooms , and the ability to pull more harveys per yr..........PM me when yas get all yer shit and figure out which way yas wanna run.......

I`m here ta help with many yrs of doin this , and bored from shutdown so hit me up when needed......

i greatly appreciate all you write. but whatever is good for you is good for me bro. i am going to get the gear in the next couple of weeks to a month. im in the process of getting a new pad. so once that happens. im super excited and eager.

so as for my gear list, it's "okies" you say except for the C02. you say to discard that for the time being. i guess my last questions are what size pots for 18 plants? and using inline blowers how often to i add air while also keeping the room cool by my ac?

i dont want to wear ya out bro. greatly appreciate your spending time on this. much respect.

Peace........DHF...........

many thanks and peace hombre

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

Seed is going to take another 6wks to get things going I would say

a hempy style is airy medium, 75%perlite, 25% vermi or coco, there are a ton of good threads that can help you better understand the method. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98419&highlight=hempy

basically a drain 2in up the side of your pot, you put hydroton at the bottom of the pot up till just covering the overflow. I used to use a 3/4in ebb n flow fitting as my drains, top water until water starts to flow out the drain, so that you have a min res in the pot that last a day or two. you can easily plumb tubing off the drain so you can water and let the overflow drain out of the room. you will need some support via cages or pvc in that style medium but its a fool proof system and the growth is much much faster than coco

here my first ever mpb http://www.*********.com/forums/f131/mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-14921/

i've read a couple of your threads. im going to check this link and read it if i haven't already. thanks a lot for your advice. i really appreciate it.

are you considering changing back to hempy buckets instead of mpb?

i'll do a bit more research but there is a good chance i'll take your advice on the hempy buckets.

but what size buckets should i use for an 18 plant 5kwatt joint in order to get the highest yield possible?

dhf, what do you say about using hempy buckets instead of just regular pots filled with coir?

 

[Apache123]

I don't think a chiller will be necessary if you do drip drain to waste. That's one of the upsides. Unless your red is super hot and have a bunch of organics in it.

I thought the same thing until I got tired of mixing up 5 gallons of solution every 3 days and upgraded to a 47 gallon reservoir. After about 4 days the reservoir stunk! I think I need to keep it chilled and or add a little bleach to it. imo

 

[ZENARCADE]

DHF, If someone was interested in doing slightly smaller than the krusty size trees, say 1lbers or slightly less , what would be a good light/plant layout? I'm familiar with the krusty layout (lights in an X, plants in a diamond) but I would like to do more slightly smaller plants with the same wattage. I have a bunch of 1ks and 600's to play with. I have a slew of good hybrid strains that I know well and believe would work good in this setup.
DIAMOND MOFO, Hope I'm not highjacking your thread with all these questions, I figure they're on topic and might help others.

 

[DHF]

Well Diamond , as far as if Hempy`s are faster and perlite being a better medium than coco , I`d haveta say that if it were , then why`s Hempy himself runnin "Coco Hempy`s" these days for an upgraded version of his original system using coco above with "whatever" in the mini-rez`s below the 2" mark for increased bottom line.............No offense MrDiz.......

I used perlite in my 5 gal coco smartpots with a 1/3 chunks , 1/3 fibers , and 1/3 fully screened and washed, then dried out perlite......If yas use FoxFarms big and chunky perlite , you`ll pay as much per bag as the other soiless medium itself.......might be worth it ta some , but I usedta run buncha containers and budget was everything using multiple locations with 4-5 powerbills and mortgage payments per month......

There are many sources for regular coarse perlite but that shit`s gotta be screened and washed ta keep the dust and sediment from formin a damn 2" cake at the bottom of your containers that sets up like concrete.......Learned that the hard way.....

When I ran my rooms with big plants I had 2 ton(24000 btu`s) wall banger a/c`s thru the walls for my cooling requirements........I hear the Excell mini-splits are the top shelf units , but the price is up there as well.......

A close Bro just had his Mitsubishi mini-split take a shit after 6 yrs and bought an LG 2 ton that he says is far superior to his old unit that uses less power than the old one that was smaller........

I`d still use a wall banger with auto restart , but that`s just me again.......I`m tight ass and wouldn`t have the first clue howta hook up all that shit with mini-split units cuz I`m gettin old and feeble and DAMN sure wouldn`t have anyone round my grow spot but me cuz I DO know howta stick a plug into a receptacle outlet.........

I`ve always used vortex inline fans with never a failure , plus the warranty can`t be beat.......I also used active intakes on thermostats and speed controllers to create negative pressure inside the rooms to insure there wasn`t more air coming in than the exhaust/scrubber combo could pull out to insure no smelly/stank air could seep out..........Kept the a/c`s from runnin 24/7 as well.....

Exchanging your room`s air twice per minute brings inherent CO2 in from the air we breathe , and depending on where you live in proximity to large metropolitan area`s , the constant ppm`s can be anywhere from 450-750 .......So IMO , since I`ve never used it and my yields never suffered without it , why add it........

Some folks swear by it.......I`d imagine they`ve never grown without it or done side by sides with major air extraction against costs versus not using it and seeing the difference in harvest dried and cured numbers..............

CO2 equipment is expensive and dangerous as a mofo if usin tanks and bullshit chinese controllers......Buddy of mine went in ta check his plants right after lights on and immediately passed out from a faulty controller dumpin the whole tank into the room when the timer went off for the first timed dispersion of gas set at 1500 ppm`s.........

If it weren`t for his ol lady draggin his ass outta the room by his ankles , he wouldn`t be here today........And yeah.....I`d say getchas a small 20 lb tank and a cheap regulator in case of spider mites ta dump 10000 ppm`s to nuke their ass , but that`s the only way I`d have the shit around , but that`s just me......Again....I know folks that swear by it........

Zenar.......If it was me , I`d duplicate BlueHaze`s setup to a T and either run a topfed with 1/4" driptubing and basket stakes fed once a day on a timer with ample runoff to keep residual salt buildup and ph fluctuations in check , or go for those new maxi outdoor sensors from "Tropf Blumat" that only release juice as it`s needed........almost sounds too good ta be true , but proof`s in the puddin from several sources.......but......Being paranoid and experienced , I`d do 1/2 strength nutrient solution flushes weekly ta check runoff ph and ppm`s for total dialage .........

Totally self sufficient once runoff dialage is obtained to keep plants as moist as possible , but not overwatered for total constant rootzone nutrient uptake and proper transpiration from the foliage above....Got 24 of em on order for when I do get a chance ta grow some headies down the road.......I`m hooked and not easily swayed by equipment , but this stuff`s been tested enough ta take care of my needs.......

As far as the light setup goes , I`d cover the walls and ceilings with reflectix and circle the wagons around each bulb but giving ample room for light penetration and air movement along with enough room for the plants to bush out as well as stretch..........

I wish all could see some of my `ol Bro Heathie Robinson`s "multi-flow" setups with all the buckets circled round the bare vertical bulbs at some invite only sites runnin his select Black Rose pheno`s..........Twas a thing of beauty....

I`ll say this one more time .......I`d go with Blue Haze`s setup with DTW coco and either drill holes in the bottoms of 5 gal buckets and sit em in another one with a drain hole 2" up just like hempy mini rez`s with rocks for root anchoring once they get there , or use 1 container with a drain hole 2" up with that bottom 2" full of lava rocks , hydroton , or big coarse perlite screened and washed........Either blumat`s , top fed DTW with pumps, timers and loopfields , or basic KISS...Handwaterin.......

Smartpots have no ability to form "mini-rez`s" like Hempy`s , so they need more juice comparably from rootzone breathing and upper plant transpiration from what I`ve seen with em , but my plants were never healthier and heavier than before I started usin em..............

After bein a slave to krusty buckets for lotta yrs , the older I got , the more I gravitated to simple with less movin parts, bells , and whistles.......but that`s just me.......less shit ta go wrong is a big plus IMO since I only went to my setups once a week........and finally........with all respect and no offense intended toward your friends that have the cards for you being a caregiver.......Move somewhere nobody knows about and grow yer ass off for a yr...........Tear down and repeat process.........

This is rule # 1 Diamond........NO PARTNERS......No reason in the world for a 5KW setup ta have any need for a loose lip ta sink a ship.....even if you ARE legal.......Rippers come in all shapes and forms........3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead and gone........Words ta live by.........Can yas tell I`m a paranoid old Fart ?.....kept me safe lotta yrs in Hell........You`ve got thieves ta worry bout , I had LEO.......Same pieces of shit , different name.......just be careful tryin ta take care of folks.....It CAN cause problems..........

Aight .......nuff shit outta me......Ya`ll take care and holler when yas get confused.......LOL.....

Peace........DHF................