ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[BigBudBill]

bill.

thats where you are..

a few pages back (for me i have my settings so this thread is 74 pgs long) i posted the AG guidelines for arrest (from waaaaay back) but if you look at the southern counties AAG guidelines for procedure they get nasty and arrest certain types (read minorities) and make them go through the affirmative defense bullshit.
personally i like MI marijuana law setup.

and some folks were hating on insomniacs wake and baking...
i am a diagnosed "delayed sleep" insomniac who wakes and bakes..for chronic pain

i just wanted to do that.

i realize with 214/420 you are 75% protected from arrest w/o a card if you are up north and white...99%? but can we not all agree if you want the fullest extent of protection you will get your card?

whereas with 19 to receive the fullest protection.....plant your seed.

I understand its more lax here than down there, but that court case is what it is. Not referring to ease of dealing with cops, just wanted to make sure you know that the annual costs you are referring to are, in a legal sense, voluntary. I know that the down south cowboy cops dont play by the rules. Yes, even the cop that did not want to come inspect my grow for my landlord told me(voicemail) that getting the state card would be a good idea.

I really just wanted you to be aware of that case and how it affects mmj users now and post 19 passing.
Im an optimist ;-)

 

[rives]

from the no votes ive seen here, their beef with 19 is this:

1- 19 is not a more liberal or in any way a better law than 215, and in fact is just a corporate grab.

2- they dont absolutely need 19, they can exist under 215 and wait for a better prop.

This is absolutely true if you can just totally ignore the facts.

1) Perhaps the most positive effect is that you will no longer risk your job for month-old metabolites in your system. The employer has to show actual impairment, which is the way it should be. No one should be at risk of their job for what happens on their own time. If the employee is not actually impaired, what does the employer have to bitch about? In some states injured workers can be denied workers compensation if they test positive post-injury for metabolites.

2) Many, many people refuse to get a rec. There are posts here saying that they are simply refusing to take advantage of a liberty that is there for the asking, but don't understand that the key is "take advantage". Numerous people don't want to claim a sickness that they don't have. Lots of them understand that information leaks, regardless of promises of sanctity. Most don't want to go through the process of asking permission from someone that they wouldn't take their dog to for treatment. There are huge numbers of people in the over-40 group that have positive memories of smoking pot before they got wrapped up in a career, family, etc. These people would like to indulge occasionally, but are not going to go the rec route, and testing positive could end their careers. Remember, for a huge portion of the state, the anonymity of a huge population doesn't exist. Many of us live in small towns a long ways from major cities.

3) 19 allows the average person to have much larger quantities at home. Yes, I know all about the 420 limits being set aside, but most counties that I know of still have limits on the books based on the 6-12-8oz rule. Yes, if you go to court you have an affirmative defense if your "doctor" thinks you should be entitled to more. With 19, home possession is wide open.

I think most of the people who oppose 19 are under 40, live in large urban areas, make most or all of their living on growing, and have a difficult time understanding other viewpoints. Sometimes you just have to do what is for the greater good. Vote yes on 19!

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Realize that in 2009, only 202,416 Californians held mmj recomendations. ( factoid: Of those, only 27,000 have applied for a state card.)

There are 36 million people in Cal. Apx 17 million are registered to vote.

Recholders (assuming they are ALL registered) are about 1 percent of the registered voters

Therefore, the 215 rec holders are not likely to decide 19.

My own personal research amongst family and friends reveals its about 75% yes regardless of if they grow or not... bear in mind I belong to/hang with a pretty open minded clan.

The question is: How effective will the NO money be at demonizing the bill prior to the election...

peace

 

[dagnabit]

Realize that in 2009, only 202,416 Californians held mmj recomendations.

i wonder how the census takers arrived at this number if recommendations are protected by dr patient confidentiality?

just a thought and completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Realize that in 2009, only 202,416 Californians held mmj recomendations. ( factoid: Of those, only 27,000 have applied for a state card.)

There are 36 million people in Cal. Apx 17 million are registered to vote.

Recholders (assuming they are ALL registered) are about 1 percent of the registered voters

Therefore, the 215 rec holders are not likely to decide 19.

My own personal research amongst family and friends reveals its about 75% yes regardless of if they grow or not... bear in mind I belong to/hang with a pretty open minded clan.

The question is: How effective will the NO money be at demonizing the bill prior to the election...

peace

I have alot of friends who really just WONT pay 150$ to get a piece of paper to be able to go spend 55-65$ / 8th at a dispensary,, why when they can just call up some dood who will deliver a 1/4 for 70-90$???? but they would be happy as fuck to vote yes to legalize. and im pretty sure these are the people that will pass it. hell some old ass lady who was registering people was a die hard republican and she was telling me how shes voting yes on 19. my grandmother is 89 and she just smoked weed for her first time last month because she didnt want to vote something in she knew nothing about (by the way she loves weed now!!!! too fuckn funny) and shes a die hard right wing gun toting glenn beck loving bush praising fanatic....

i really dont see it getting much oppositiion besides prison guards thug mafia and the LEOs....

i think alot of politicians going to keep their mouth shut for fear they oppose it and it passes in overwhelming numbers.

meg whitman looks like a scary bitch. so who the fuck knows.... she keeps saying she going to run CA like a bizness...which sounds like ill stomp throats to get my fuckn scrilla...????

 

[dagnabit]

The question is: How effective will the NO money be at demonizing the bill prior to the election...

VERY!!!!!
they always have been well funded.
they have god and government on their side.(not to mention some business)

 

[localhero]

Realize that in 2009, only 202,416 Californians held mmj recomendations. ( factoid: Of those, only 27,000 have applied for a state card.)

There are 36 million people in Cal. Apx 17 million are registered to vote.

Recholders (assuming they are ALL registered) are about 1 percent of the registered voters

Therefore, the 215 rec holders are not likely to decide 19.

My own personal research amongst family and friends reveals its about 75% yes regardless of if they grow or not... bear in mind I belong to/hang with a pretty open minded clan.

The question is: How effective will the NO money be at demonizing the bill prior to the election...

peace

haha no way will 19 be decided by our community, i dont think it would be worded the way it is if it was the non rec holders ive talked to are all for it.

a buddy of mine petitioned for 19, and his take from the word on the street was that it wont pass. but he mainly worked a heavily latino populated area. whittier/montebello area for those who know la. i know that crowd pretty well and its probably the catholic influence that would weigh in heavily on that call.


i havent seen any campaigns yet. my guess is we will see some children coughing. some drug statistics. or nothing at all. i wouldnt be suprised if there were no opposition ads.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

i wonder how the census takers arrived at this number if recommendations are protected by dr patient confidentiality?

just a thought and completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

that 200k number is total bullshit. theres probably twice that number in LA alone. combined with SD, SF, and all of norcal.... id guess theres at least 750k-1m patients.

 

[dagnabit]

i wouldnt be suprised if there were no opposition ads.

and the only mention in the media being laughing at the absurd hippies?
that kinda thing?

 

[dagnabit]

that 200k number is total bullshit. theres probably twice that number in LA alone. combined with SD, SF, and all of norcal.... id guess theres at least 750k-1m patients.

i really was not calling the validity of the number into question.....
but if you say so?
i just wondered about the methodology of the survey?

 

[localhero]

im sure jon and ken will be talking about 19. probably every conservative radio station. rush may or may not, depending if he wants to open up the can of worms that is "drug talk" i can imagine a caller sneaking through screening and offering medical mj to help him get off his heroin addiction to oxyconton.

there will be some late night talk show intro jokes.

is there a group formed to post up anti ads? i wonder if lee has it in the budget to throw out some resistance if there are. a pro ad would probably be focussed on the tax benefits, and be set in the most professional tone possible.

 

[BigBudBill]

i really was not calling the validity of the number into question.....
but if you say so?
i just wondered about the methodology of the survey?

I'm wondering if rec docs have to report numbers, maybe for accounting?

 

[Smoke Buddy]

i really was not calling the validity of the number into question.....
but if you say so?
i just wondered about the methodology of the survey?

Whatup my bruthas...

Yeah, I was hoping we could all see beating the crap out of each other over this is moot.

Herb I Like your grandma! My 80 year old dad (Socal resident) got his rec last year and its funny as hell listening to him tell me about his grandaddy purple and sour og... Oh no a yellow leaf... LOL... btw: it helps his glaucoma alot.. the doc says he doesnt need the pills anymore... Yeah!

The 202K is indeed a guess since it is confidential. The state card number was "real".

Here is the footnote to the rec holder number:
1. California has voluntary registration (as opposed to mandatory registration in all other legal medical marijuana states besides Washington and Maine), so we used the estimate made by the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which is based on Oregon's per capita number of 5.55 medical marijuana patients per 1,000 state residents. The number of voluntarily registered users in California was 27,023 as of Feb. 6, 2009 according to the state's medical marijuana program website.

I guess they figure there are about the same mmj demographics
as Oregon. I hope admin is OK with this link:
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001199

 

[Faraway]

Voting no on 19 will seem like people of Cali do not want pot to be legal. I'm 215 & will vote yes. I will also keep & renew my 215 if it passes. Most regular people I know who don't smoke much don't even know this site even exists & knows what is being said. They do want it to pass. For them it's better to pass it because it allows them to get high without the fear. I use to hate getting high with fear. BTW I do now have a legit reason for 215.

 

[blancorasta]

i havent seen any campaigns yet. my guess is we will see some children coughing. some drug statistics. or nothing at all. i wouldnt be suprised if there were no opposition ads.

the other day i saw a news preview and they had a pic that a mother had posted online or something of her toddler with a bong to his mouth, i didnt see the piece on it but i assumed they were going to use it as leverage to keep it illegal

peace

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

the other day i saw a news preview and they had a pic that a mother had posted online or something of her toddler with a bong to his mouth, i didnt see the piece on it but i assumed they were going to use it as leverage to keep it illegal

peace

the little 6 y.o. Black kid smoking the blunt is funnier...

 

[dagnabit]

Here is the footnote to the rec holder number:
1. California has voluntary registration (as opposed to mandatory registration in all other legal medical marijuana states besides Washington and Maine), so we used the estimate made by the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which is based on Oregon's per capita number of 5.55 medical marijuana patients per 1,000 state residents. The number of voluntarily registered users in California was 27,023 as of Feb. 6, 2009 according to the state's medical marijuana program website.

I guess they figure there are about the same mmj demographics
as Oregon. I hope admin is OK with this link:
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001199

michigan also does not require registration for affirmative defense.
but they WILL make everyone they catch with only a rec defend themselves.

 

[blancorasta]

michigan also does not require registration for affirmative defense.
but they WILL make everyone they catch with only a rec defend themselves.

i dont think it has been this way in cali, in the last 7 years or so atleast. (if one is in compliance)

peace

 

[dagnabit]

i dont think it has been this way in cali, in the last 7 years or so atleast. (if one is in compliance)

peace

in the absolute strictest sense of the law it is...
but enforcement is much more important than the law itself.

 

[zen_trikester]

As for the mexi brick weed... that is NOT a Cali problem. You guys are so saturated with local stuff you don't have to deal with that. In the Midwest we have that shit everywhere. It is easy to find and you have to really work at networking to find anything that is real quality. That isn't relevant to the CA situation, but it is relative to the global one. The Cartels are making huge bank selling there shit in areas where the local scene is less prevelent. That is part of the big push for the med scene that the gov doesn't understand. You can get weed, but it may be moldy or otherwise less healthy. You can't just make a couple of calls and grab a bag of the kine. These people have to make do with whatever they can get and it is hard to find anything worthwhile sometimes.

yes and then i said -

are you trying to make me crazy? that was my response. that saying 19 covers more people isnt true.

LH, I like that you are part of this discussion.l I truly feel that you are trying to get the answers to your questions but I don't think you are following the logic that people are throwing your way. Prop 19 does nothing for or against med patients. The point of the prop is to allow recreational access for people over 21 just like alcohol. It is that simple and it is reasonable to the masses. I would rather see college age kids smoking than drinking, but that is because I have intimate knowledge of the plant that a lot of voters don't have. 19 doesn't affect medical use for those under 21. This isn't people picking between 215 and 19! 19 has HUGE benefits for those who simply want to smoke and grow a little bit. 215 doesn't offer any protection at the workplace that 19 does, 215 doesn't allow for hemp production and 19 does. 215 doesn't make it legal to use but it does offer a defense. 19 makes it legal to all but the feds.

poeple who are covered by 215, which could be everyone and anyone, may not like 19 because its not a solid legalization prop, shit man everyone here, myself included have laid out the many faults of 19. no one has ever claimed its the dogs balls. so maybe a no voter would rather wait for a better legalization prop?

There is no guarantee that there will ever be another opportunity for ANY form of legalization. If this fails it will be seen as CA doesn't want to legalize. That is it. For another prop to make it to the ballot it will take a lot of support and a lot of money. This either means that corporations have to fund it or citizens. THEN if it is a citizen funded prop it would still have to fix the societal problems with MJ. Crime, street dealing, kids smoking, etc. If those things aren't addressed then people wont vote or even sign the prop to get it to the ballot. This bill assimilates pot to alcohol and people understand that and are comfortable with how that works. 25 sq ft, 1 oz on your person, nobody under 21, increased penalties for selling to kids... that is what that stuff is in there for. People won't vote for a prop any other way.

something that wasnt a corporate hand out?

This is not a corporate hand out. If it was it would specify how things shake out but it doesn't. It only specifies that production and sales need to be regulated. How is this bad? They are not going to write one law and try to make everyone squeeze into it! Then you guys would really be bitching. This puts control into the hands of the local people!!!

maybe something that didnt set such an ambiguous tax scheme?

There is nothing about taxes! If they jack them up too high, nothing will change. This is business 101! The legal weed has to compete with the blackmarket weed and price and quality will be important factors in that.

maybe something that completely decriminalized it?

It is a drug dude. Nobody is going to vote for a prop that just lets people grow whatever/wherever they want. That is old-school hippie thought pattern and it simply isn't realistic in today's society. There will always be laws that prevent people from producing a saleable quantity and from selling to whomever they want. there will be health concerns and manufacturing facility safety concerns. This needs to be regulated!

maybe something that created larger, more realistic floors for growing and possesing?

Again, this is not going to ever be a situation where the masses will condone huge ops in your home for anything other than a medical need. If you can produce pounds per week you would only do so to sell it. If you had 6 1000w HPS's in your basement there is a good chance a person may not install them safely and burn down your whole neighborhood. Have you ever looked at a "my new grow room" thread? Geese...


OP: So I just got 4 sunsystem superlamps and I keep blowing my fuse! What do I due?
1st response: Just power down the main and replace the circuit with a 20 amp and you will be fine!
2nd response: yeah, my friend's uncle did that and he grows some awesum budz man!

3rd Response: (only ever on IC) NO!!! You can't replace the circuit without upgrading the wire!!! Run a couple of 12ga wires to the grow with groundfoault outlets and install a sub panel off your main panel with 2 separate 20 amp lines. Run 2 lights into each 20 and you will be fine! DON"T ever put more juice through the old wire in your home than was inteneded or you will have a fire!!!
OP: I just replace the breaker with a 20 amp and it works great

We've all seen these threads right? So anybody here thinks that it would be good for the public safety to just let people start throwing multiple HPS's in their basement? I don't! That is another good reason for the smaller personal garden. If it was open ended then there would certainly have to be inspections and that is where commercial takes over! A prop that allows for a large personal garden is simply not going to pass through public vote and it would ultimately cause more trouble for the people doing personal grows. Outdoor is a little different certainly in the safety department... A small garden is less likely to need inspections. 25 sq ft is very reasonable for a personal grow. If you don't know how to grow smaller or grow perpetual, then just read the forums here. It is super simple and a lot of fun. You can even easily grow full sized indoor plants in that size garden. Just look around and see.

maybe something that clearly defined what "space" meant?

Why place restriction on that? This is no problem. LEO isn't going to go snooping around your house, and they aren't going to be busting people for smoking in apartment buildings. That is all unrealistic fear mongering. They simply don't want people smoking at the playground where kids are playing or in enclosed places where kids might get second hand smoke. This isn't an unrealistic thing is it? Do you think leo is going to have any other ideas? They want kids to be safe, that is it. Why would you want clarification on exactly what a space is? Don't smoke around kids... simple.

maybe something that didnt allow legislative amendments? maybe?

There is nowhere in the sections pertaining to personal consumption that says that local gov can make changes to what is written in the prop. There are great protections there that are wriotten in stone. In order for them to change these thing there would have to be a new prop voted by the people, right? Only in the comercial sections does it talk about local legislation making the rules.

Having the ability for legislative amendments on commercial and retail aspects is a good thing! So you want them to make 1 rule to fit the whole state? I am sure that most wouldn't like it whatever it was. You have the ability to write your own laws for commercial and retail by working within your individual community. Again, I hope people are out putting together proposed commercial laws NOW for their local government. Think of what they want and what you want and propose legislation to them. It won't be hard to get them to hear your feelings on it especially if you come to them as a group that is looking to find realistic solutions that are fair for all involved.

in reality, 19 is a corporate handout with very little teeth, and alot of room for shenanigans. its a clever move by corporate interests who have manufactured a misconception among the average folk that 19 is legalization. it tossed us a few verry small bones and put us all in a situation where we have to vote yes or it will be seen as a referendum on pot.

thats all it is. just another bogus prop.

This prop CLEARLY states the rules for personal consumption, personal possession, and personal production. These things are written firmly with plenty of teeth. From a commercial and retail end it simply opens the doors, AND opens the doors for hemp production. This prop protects workers from being fired for smoking on their own time. It prevents leo from busting or hassling people who follow the rules. This prop gives all the proper rights to the consumer. The rest has yet to be written... what is the problem with that? It is a great start and it is TRUE legalization because it protects people from prosecution for personal use while doing nothing to take away MMJ rights.

Again it isn't perfect for anyone. It involves a lot of compromise, but to understand the intend you really need to put yourselves in the shoes of others and try to see it from theri standpoint. I get the feeling LH that you are looking at this whole thing from a very narrow minded standpoint. If you want people to vote for a legalization prop of any sort it has to appeal to the masses. Certainly you can understand that!


Jed