Considering DWC - some questions

[Scrogerman]

Yeah in conventional growing of course root mass is gonna be more directly involved with yield. But Hydroponic is not exactly conventional(i see that as soil growing etc).
Ive grown with totes & filled a 70 litre to the Brim with the roots of 2 plants using No Zymes, bloody back-pressure on my pump was enormous & it was getting really hot. yield was just over 15oz. Then i used Cannazyme for the whole of the next grow, everything the same but the zymes & yielded just under 16oz, twas around 1/2 oz more with the zymes & about '60%' less root mass. i know the zymes help form new roots by breaking down the old, i suppose a type of root pruning. in a way similar to whats happening in the Airpots you see about, airpruning, which looks very effective to me, it aint the same but i see the tec as very similar & an easy way to explain it for me lol.

Now i have a bottle of Cannazyme about all the time, its a lovely clean product & does exactly what its suppose to. highly recommend the stuff for DWC.

 

[GuerrillaRed]

High, I'm considering trying out DWC.

1. How big should the airpump be - formula?

As big as possible. I've put 100 gal rated airpumps in 2 gal buckets thinking there was no way the plants would live. To my surprise those plants become the monsters in my green room.

2. How old should the clones be before I put them in DWC?

I pop my seeds in Rapid Rooter plugs and then as soon as I see a sprout I put them in the DWC.

3.Do I need to change the water of each bucket every 2 weeks or something, or maybe refill the buckets with water and nuts?

I fill the reses every other day with feeding formula (just the lucas formula with whatever additives I'm playing with) and only change out the water in between veg/flowering just out of habit and then in the two week flush. Heck on this last grow, I didn't even bother to do the change between cycles and my plants were fine. I do think it's good to change out your water a few times a grow, but absolutely nothing to get obsessive about. By the way, you're going to be absolutely shocked and amazed to see how much water a plant drinks a day in the flowering cycle.

Also consider growing in Igloo or Coleman beverage coolers so that it's much easier to drain your res and to take basic maintenance checks.

4.How many plants can I have under 1 x 1000w lamp in DWC?

Depends if you want to grow horizontally or vertically in my experience. If you're growing the traditional way horizontally with a reflector, you'll be able to grow about four righteously (again this is my experience, ymmv) and vertically with a bare bulb I could get eight plants out of it in my set up.

5. How much space do each plant need for the roots? (cm3,litre)

It's funny my last grow was largely experimenting with this very thing in DWCs. In my opinion you should use at least ten inch tall 3 gallon buckets. Traditionally most people use about 15-17 inch tall five gallon buckets.

6. Is it recommended to have each plant in its own container, or serveral plants in one big container?

In a DWC, each plant should have it's own container unless you're using a large rubbermaid type DWC. However, those are kind of a pain in the ass to deal with.

Tips and tricks are welcome

DWCs are in my opinion the absolutely easiest way to grow and the biggest bang for the buck. I've been using DWCs for years now and would never think of growing any other way. Once you get the knowledge and experience and get your setup dialed, it's seriously the laziest best way to grow. My last grow I got two pounds from four plants in a grow that took less than five minutes every other day to maintain. And I never checked my pH once in that entire four months. DWCs for the motherfucker win.

A couple things you should consider though. You should put your DWCs and set-up somewhere where you don't mind a little water spilling. And like I said, I can't stress how much simpler maintenance on a DWC becomes when you grow in a cooler with a spout instead of your average bucket.

Also pH is everything in a DWC. If your pH is fucked or you don't know what you're doing, a plant is going to die in short order because given the nature of the roots constantly uptaking nutes it's much more responsive and touchy than soil is. Invest in a good pH meter and some pH calibration solution (this is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR NEW DWC USERS!!!!) and make sure to check your pH in your DWCs every day until you get a handle and feel for it. Also in my opinion, new DWC users need to start with the Lucas Formula. I know some will disagree with me. However so much of the water chemistry ideas out there are based off of the Lucas Formula and it's a very easy nearly impossible to fuck up feeding system. Also I would be willing to bet the vast majority of us DWC users started with the Lucas Formula.

Also I just finished a grow in 2 and 3 gallon coolers just to see what smaller sized buckets would produce. I will never grow in anything smaller than 5 gallons again.

 

[BeaverHuntr]

It doesnt matter about roots getting tangled, ive filled a tote to the brim before now with roots, sometimes its a good idea to use a zyme product to keeps root mass down, ive never lost yield doing it, Cannazyme is good, nice n clean!
Just dont mix strains or pheno's if you can help it, they will require a different feed schedual, if you wanna run diff strains, run Buckets or Multi-Totes, but each bucket with diff strain will require diff feed schedual(EC).
I swear by Totes myself, easier to keep cool & stable! 80lite tote Vs 20 litre bucket, for me its no-contest! Please do use Air diffusers, you get much better D'O(dissolved Oxygen) infused into your solution, the smaller the bubbles the better & faster the the D'O content in your solution, av a look at Micropore stones, easy to clean & mine never clog. Im gonna be running between a 40lpm 'or a' 60 lpm(litres per minute) airpump with 6 stones(hopefully micropore-but their expensive) in my new 80l Res/tote(4 plants-same strain, 2 diff pheno's)! Good Luck!

'The best Tip/Advice ive ever given': 'Keep a fan on your Airpump(dedicated)', as roots envelop your airstones(about early bloom), back-pressure on your pump will rise, making the pump work harder & in-turn make it hot, this contributes to blowing warm air straight into your res(your airstones will get strangled as roots gain mass). The closer you put your fan to your pump, the cooler your pump will stay, in turn helping to keep your res solution cool. This is another good reason to use zymes, keeping root mass down will help reduce pump back pressure, in turn, this helps to keep pump & res cool!
All you DWC'ers that struggle with res temps & have never used a dedicated Fan on your Airpump, please try this, you'll wish you had done it sooner! Good Luck All!

thanks for all the great info.. I am going to use a 120 Quart Ice chest as my reservoir. I am doing this because I live in the desert and it doesnt get cool until late Oct. The closet will be air conditioned and my 1000w has a cool tube . I think the totes will require to much time maintain the water temp. I dont want to grow shitty plants and I cant find a good deal on a aquarium chiller so the Ice chest will do for now.

 

[GuerrillaRed]

Why is everyone so insistent on using air stones? I use bare line and honestly think it works better.

 

[skotty]

because airstones put out micro oxygen bubbles which last longer in the water

 

[FreezerBoy]

Why is everyone so insistent on using air stones? I use bare line and honestly think it works better.

Stealth.

Aeration comes from surface turbulence and big bubbles will do so better than small ones. However, big bubbles are louder than small bubbles. First thing anyone in my garage hears is the fan on my freezer grow. That's OK because it sounds like a wheezing old freezer should sound. If they heard bubbling inside the freezer, they'd know it wasn't a freezer and would ask about the noise.

 

[skotty]

Stealth.

Aeration comes from surface turbulence and big bubbles will do so better than small ones. However, big bubbles are louder than small bubbles. First thing anyone in my garage hears is the fan on my freezer grow. That's OK because it sounds like a wheezing old freezer should sound. If they heard bubbling inside the freezer, they'd know it wasn't a freezer and would ask about the noise.

id disagree with what he is saying id say smaller bubbles are better as they keep water oxygenated for longer you wanna have a set up like mine

60 ltr per minute pump running 3 buckets quiet as fook

 

[Scrogerman]

LOL, not being harsh or anything but doing DWC without Airstones is like a church without a vicar/priest, or a tree without leaves. D'O levels are not gonna be anywhere near what can be achieved with using Multiple Micro pore Airstones. Do your reaserch on D'O & DWC & you'll see it yourself. OK it can be done without them, i dont doubt that at all, but if you want serious D'O(dissolved O2), try using them, i suspect your yields will increase by quite a bit, but i could be wrong(its only one major link in the chain). each to there own as they say, & whatever works best for you. But i will say, there are more than a hundred different ways to skin a chicken(dont ask me to list all of them, use imagination). i just cant see a 4mm or bigger airline bubbling away giving anywhere near the D'O that could be achieved using Micro Pore Stones or the like. Like i said though each to there own! G'Luck!

Smaller the Bubbles(as in Micro Bubbles) the faster & larger quantity of D'O content in solution. or i suppose all the research ive done on DWC in the last 12year+ is complete bollocs'. You cover more surface area of solution with micro bubbles as apposed to large bubbles anyway, you dont have to think about it long to realise this is the case.

500000000 micro bubbles Vs 50,000 Bubbles, which do you think covers more surface area & which do you think is gonna dissolve easier.?

 

[FreezerBoy]

Aeration comes from surface turbulence. This is why waterfalls, 2 turbulent surfaces crashing through a 3rd turbulent surface, are the most effective means of aeration. No airstones involved.

That said, DWC outgrows soil for the same reason Aero outgrows DWC: massive amounts of O2 to the roots. Get that O2 in there if you want to get the most out of your grow.

 

[Young Pumpkin]

One thought on air stones at wally world, Don't, just don't. Where I'm at I thought they were ok but clogged easily. It was one reason I almost gave up on DWC. On a hunch I stopped at "Fish World" and tried their stones. The out put was noticeably different. For the flower room, I upgraded my pumps to real ones, bigger lines, bigger stones and in 2 or 3 buckets they have 2 lines. The growth has exploded. What little rot I've had is gone and I'm about to take 1 plant with the biggest bud I've grown since I can remember. To me its in the air but 1 variation tho. From lurking in the infirmary I decided to try hygrozyme, or something like that spelling. So that may have an effect I'm not sure. It and the air upgrades have worked very well so I can't say it was just the air but I'm really happy at the moment. I'm almost sure there is some luck involved but thats ok to. I'm still dialing in but I think I'm 80-90% still there.

Mine is a rotating grow so I have bloomers at different stages. But dang, what a difference. I do 2 gallon buckets (never saw a 3, interesting) but the root growth has exploded and the next ones in are gonna be in 5 gallons. 2 gallons are filling up with roots and taking on the shape of the buckets. So, for me, get that air in there. Some way, some how, as much as you can. What ever happens after that, if its bad, you know air is not the issue except a failed pump, clogged stone or something like that. And it doesn't hurt to check the buckets to see if you're getting the output you think you should be. My 2 cents and what I'm doing right now. Your mileage most likely will vary.

Me? I'm finally tickled pink, no more pro mix for me. I'm getting it right, finally. But tried and true is your best bet. I started along side my dirt grow. It took a lot of reading, a couple of dumb questions, and some trial and error. But what works good for 1 may not for another. Welcome to the wacky world of water. Pay off is coming if you can swim long enuff.

 

[GuerrillaRed]

Meh... to me an airstone is just another thing to fuck up, cost money, clog, and destroy an airpump. But whatevs is clevs.

 

[GuerrillaRed]

One thought on air stones at wally world, Don't, just don't. Where I'm at I thought they were ok but clogged easily. It was one reason I almost gave up on DWC. On a hunch I stopped at "Fish World" and tried their stones. The out put was noticeably different. For the flower room, I upgraded my pumps to real ones, bigger lines, bigger stones and in 2 or 3 buckets they have 2 lines. The growth has exploded. What little rot I've had is gone and I'm about to take 1 plant with the biggest bud I've grown since I can remember. To me its in the air but 1 variation tho. From lurking in the infirmary I decided to try hygrozyme, or something like that spelling. So that may have an effect I'm not sure. It and the air upgrades have worked very well so I can't say it was just the air but I'm really happy at the moment. I'm almost sure there is some luck involved but thats ok to. I'm still dialing in but I think I'm 80-90% still there.

Mine is a rotating grow so I have bloomers at different stages. But dang, what a difference. I do 2 gallon buckets (never saw a 3, interesting) but the root growth has exploded and the next ones in are gonna be in 5 gallons. 2 gallons are filling up with roots and taking on the shape of the buckets. So, for me, get that air in there. Some way, some how, as much as you can. What ever happens after that, if its bad, you know air is not the issue except a failed pump, clogged stone or something like that. And it doesn't hurt to check the buckets to see if you're getting the output you think you should be. My 2 cents and what I'm doing right now. Your mileage most likely will vary.

Me? I'm finally tickled pink, no more pro mix for me. I'm getting it right, finally. But tried and true is your best bet. I started along side my dirt grow. It took a lot of reading, a couple of dumb questions, and some trial and error. But what works good for 1 may not for another. Welcome to the wacky world of water. Pay off is coming if you can swim long enuff.

What do you think you'll pull per plant with the changes?

I didn't know growing in 2 and 3 gallon buckets was common. I'm intrigued...

 

[skotty]

2 or 3 gallon pots does sound small i use 5 gal buckets for each plant and especially when producing massive root balls and the bigger buckets help with temps

peace

 

[sneakyheatsig]

Aeration comes from surface turbulence. This is why waterfalls, 2 turbulent surfaces crashing through a 3rd turbulent surface, are the most effective means of aeration. No airstones involved.

That said, DWC outgrows soil for the same reason Aero outgrows DWC: massive amounts of O2 to the roots. Get that O2 in there if you want to get the most out of your grow.

So would you recommend including spray nozzles for the roots in a RDWC set up? I'm reading all I can find on RDWC at the moment and there seems to be some conflict on this issue between experienced growers. Some say RDWC generally incorporates aero, some say it doesn't.
The commercially available systems all seem to flood and drain from the base (as opposed to spraying at root level then draining below) and mention nothing about introducing DO. Is this a fault on their part? Or are they behind with most recent methods? Forgive a noob's confusion!

Also, you mentioned waterfalls... does anyone know if that is something worth looking at? If noise is not an issue for the grower then that must be a very effective (and hassle free) means of introducing DO...

 

[skotty]

mate id stick with a simple system to start with if i was you and then when you have a feel for it work ya way up to bigger things

there are growers all over the internet growing trees in dwc (if thats what your into) and it is 1 of the easiest hydro methods of growing other than hempy and krusty buckets

rdwc doesnt incoporate spray systems it could if you wanted it to but for the sake of begginers start simple and then go big

peace

 

[jm420]

If you want an aero setup search threads by pirate hes got that shit down

 

[skotty]

If you want an aero setup search threads by pirate hes got that shit down

if the guy wanted an aero system do you think he might of named the thread "considering aerponics"

 

[jm420]

So would you recommend including spray nozzles for the roots in a RDWC set up? I'm reading all I can find on RDWC at the moment and there seems to be some conflict on this issue between experienced growers. Some say RDWC generally incorporates aero, some say it doesn't.
The commercially available systems all seem to flood and drain from the base (as opposed to spraying at root level then draining below) and mention nothing about introducing DO. Is this a fault on their part? Or are they behind with most recent methods? Forgive a noob's confusion!


thats what I was refering to ,no need to be an ass, recirculating deep water culture does not incorporate aeroponics.If your going to use spayers its basic aero

 

[skotty]

notice how quickly a thread can go off topic ,

the op is obviuosly new to the whole dwc thing so a basic setup would of seen him right but then all the other posters come in recommeneding rdwc and getting misters in you res and running a dwc system without airstones

now i remeber when i was new to dwc and all this stuff would of blown my mind when all i wanted was a simple system to grow some big plants that works, then later on when i get used to the basics of a dwc system i can look at ways of improving it or modyfing it.

put yourself in th ops shoes and try an remember what it was like for you in the beginning

1 bucket
1 air pump
1 air stone
1 net basket
clay pebbles
rockwool cubes
nutrients
ph meter
ec meter


that is all you need to grow a plant in dwc simples

the rest of the stuff is add ons and down to the indiviuals skill level on growing

peace

 

[GuerrillaRed]

Seriously preach it Scotty.

DWCs are the shiz-nite because they're so simple. Sometimes people don't want to be hyper obsessive-compulsive and want to grow trees without a lot of effort.

By the way, in my next grow I'm going to do 4 DWCs with airstones and 4 DWCs without airstones and we'll see what happens. You fuckers got me pondering now.