ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Today if I smoke in front of my children in my house nothing can be done

Cool. Then call up the police under a fictitious name and report yourself. Tell them you witnessed your neighbor (you) smoking in front of their children and youd like to report it.

Once the officer comes to your house for a mj complaint, record the conversation. If your so sure your right, it should be a 30 second tape confirming the officers belief that no crime has been committed.

I mean if your so sure of yourself and all....

 

[mullray]

Today if I smoke in front of my children in my house nothing can be done as they are 18 yrs old or over. Now if they were under 18 the police may not have much to say as no penal codes would be being broken as I`m a legal med user,but CPS has sometimes brought up complaints. I`m a little worried under todays laws about my kids having problems with CPS if I smoke when my grandkids are here.

Under Prop 19 I`m worried that even having my married children who are not 21 yrs old around when I need medication could be a problem! Now some people have stated that many people in Cali are not really disabled and are using medical marijuana laws just to sneek by.Maybe, but that is clearly not the case with me! I am considered permenently disabled and am on social Security for life (not welfare,Not SSI) I qualify because of my age at this point anyway!

As for size of grow.215 doesn`t set a size of grow and AB 420 was struct down by the courts.I can grow as much as I need for my condition under state law.Under fedral law it is still a crime to grow or have any marijuana how ever.But because the only thing I have is my Doctors recomendation I`m afraid that prop 19 would limit my grow area or plant count to 5x5 which would not come close to my needs.I use 2-3 oz a day on my good days and have been able to stop taking most of my other medications because of that including the morphine sulfate. I also sometimes need to carry much more than an oz if I have to be away for any amount of time.Some times when I`m in pain or the inflamation from my illness, not being in remission I have been known to vape over 5 oz at a time in order to try to keep my illness under control! And that is dank stuff also Tahoe OG Kush, Banana OG kush, Herijuana, hash,ect. and many other strains as well as Sativa strains so I can get up and about.If this law has a wisper of a chance of limiting my needed consumption I`m a dead man! I have already out lived 3 of 4 doctors who have each given me less than a month to live. Because of smoking marijuana from early youth I`m still here! An other reason I am dead against limiting youth from smoking marijuana! Ok admittedly maybe that`s why I get away with leo knowing I have an M-16 and grow/smoke marijuana I have yet to find a Leo who will arrest me for anything in the condition I am in! And I do very much enjoy out shooting them at the range! Makes them feel stupid to carry a gun and not be able to out shoot a dam dope smoking old Hippie that has on foot in the grave and the other in Hell! LOL!

Dude, youth aint going to jail for smoking MJ under Prop 19. It'll be seen as the same thing as underage drinking in a very short time.

"I have an M-16 and grow/smoke marijuana I have yet to find a Leo who will arrest me for anything in the condition I am in! And I do very much enjoy out shooting them at the range! Makes them feel stupid to carry a gun and not be able to out shoot a dam dope smoking old Hippie that has on foot in the grave and the other in Hell! LOL!"

Grow up - get with the program.

 

[markscastle]

Cool. Then call up the police under a fictitious name and report yourself. Tell them you witnessed your neighbor (you) smoking in front of their children and youd like to report it.

Once the officer comes to your house for a mj complaint, record the conversation. If your so sure your right, it should be a 30 second tape confirming the officers belief that no crime has been committed.

I mean if your so sure of yourself and all....

Like i said my kids are all 18 and over I`m more conserned with my young grand kids .Also Can I include some of the local cops who have stopped by in uniform and off duty and smoked with me and some of my kids? Like I said also I`m 215 legal and can and have smoked in public lots of times when i need to. And a lot of cops have seen me do so and yet to have one ask me for a copy of my recomendation! Only people who have asked have been despenceries before they let you in! One guy even asked me to show it twice when I just went back out to the dam car to get some water while I was waiting for my turn at the counter! I gess that`s what youhave to put up with when out and about and don`t bring enough meds with you!

 

[markscastle]

OK if you have to push your ideas with a strong mesure of fear in order to get people to vote on your side what`s that say about you and your prop 19? I mean it just won`t work with me as what the hell do I have to fear in my condition? The cops are the least of my problems, I worrie about rippers far more than the cops,even the real anti drug ones and there are more that a few of them around here also!

 

[markscastle]

Now get a law with some teeth about all the dam rippers and you will really have my vote!

 

[vta]

Today if I smoke in front of my children in my house nothing can be done as they are 18 yrs old or over. Now if they were under 18 the police may not have much to say as no penal codes would be being broken as I`m a legal med user,but CPS has sometimes brought up complaints. I`m a little worried under todays laws about my kids having problems with CPS if I smoke when my grandkids are here.

Under Prop 19 I`m worried that even having my married children who are not 21 yrs old around when I need medication could be a problem! Now some people have stated that many people in Cali are not really disabled and are using medical marijuana laws just to sneek by.Maybe, but that is clearly not the case with me! I am considered permenently disabled and am on social Security for life (not welfare,Not SSI) I qualify because of my age at this point anyway!

As for size of grow.215 doesn`t set a size of grow and AB 420 was struct down by the courts.I can grow as much as I need for my condition under state law.Under fedral law it is still a crime to grow or have any marijuana how ever.But because the only thing I have is my Doctors recomendation I`m afraid that prop 19 would limit my grow area or plant count to 5x5 which would not come close to my needs.I use 2-3 oz a day on my good days and have been able to stop taking most of my other medications because of that including the morphine sulfate. I also sometimes need to carry much more than an oz if I have to be away for any amount of time.Some times when I`m in pain or the inflamation from my illness, not being in remission I have been known to vape over 5 oz at a time in order to try to keep my illness under control! And that is dank stuff also Tahoe OG Kush, Banana OG kush, Herijuana, hash,ect. and many other strains as well as Sativa strains so I can get up and about.If this law has a wisper of a chance of limiting my needed consumption I`m a dead man! I have already out lived 3 of 4 doctors who have each given me less than a month to live. Because of smoking marijuana from early youth I`m still here! An other reason I am dead against limiting youth from smoking marijuana! Ok admittedly maybe that`s why I get away with leo knowing I have an M-16 and grow/smoke marijuana I have yet to find a Leo who will arrest me for anything in the condition I am in! And I do very much enjoy out shooting them at the range! Makes them feel stupid to carry a gun and not be able to out shoot a dam dope smoking old Hippie that has on foot in the grave and the other in Hell! LOL!

Here is the deal. You are a certified user of medical marijuana, you are covered under 215 and 420. Right now...today...if you were to be busted for ANY cannabis related offense what would happen? Not you specifically, with all your connections and such but the average med user. Well we already know that 215&420 DO NOT prevent arrest but only a defense in court. So they take your plants and stash, pipes and bongs, what ever they want. You go to court and your lawyer says, "Your honor, My client is a card carrying medical marijuana patient and he has been wrongfully accused of these crimes" you will be tried under the health and safety section pertaining to 215 and 420soon you win your case and you get your dead plants back and your broken roor. Hey that's better than what we had before right?

Now...Mark, after 19 passes, and say you end up in court, your lawyer will say the same damn thing. Because you are a medical user you fall under 215 and 420. You do not fall under 19..whatsoever. 19 'clearly' states 'recreational use' of marijuana. They are two separate laws covering two separate things. Because 19 doesn't say it invalidates 215 for anything YOU can come up with doesn't mean jack. 19 doesn't have to say "and 215 exempt this and that" In fact although it was not needed legally, the 'did' put in there that med users are exempt....they didn't have to as the LAW already assures this.

Bottom line is if your a med user you get tried under med laws...don't say kelly this and that...kelly does have all the weight in the world for us now and it will after 19...its the law. And 19 can't change that.

Also...why are do damn worried about smoking in the privacy of your home while your 18 year old is there? Do cops hang outside your windows? WTF? You are really stretching it there man. This law may not be the end all to cannabis prohibition but it's a lot better than what the "recreational' users have now. And it will just make being a patient a little easier too.

 

[igrowone]

Now get a law with some teeth about all the dam rippers and you will really have my vote!

i doubt it will have teeth big enough for you, but 19 should help with that a bit
MJ growing becomes a generally a lawful activity(within limits)
so it should increase the number of growers willing to file charges against rippers
but i would think you have similar protections now if you're a 215 patient

EDIT: I stand corrected by vta's post on 215's extent of protection, that pretty much sucks with regard to a ripoff situation, from what i just read

 

[markscastle]

i doubt it will have teeth big enough for you, but 19 should help with that a bit
MJ growing becomes a generally a lawful activity(within limits)
so it should increase the number of growers willing to file charges against rippers
but i would think you have similar protections now if you're a 215 patient

Yes if you could ever catch the sneeks! I`m wondering as I understand almost all rippers are younger men between 17 and 25 how making it harder for younger folks to get weed will play with out with rippers.Seems if they can`t grow or buy they would be even more likely to steal it than they are now!

 

[Batboy]

I use 2-3 oz a day on my good days and have been able to stop taking most of my other medications because of that including the morphine sulfate. I also sometimes need to carry much more than an oz if I have to be away for any amount of time.Some times when I`m in pain or the inflamation from my illness, not being in remission I have been known to vape over 5 oz at a time in order to try to keep my illness under control! And that is dank stuff also Tahoe OG Kush, Banana OG kush, Herijuana, hash,ect. and many other strains as well as Sativa strains so I can get up and about.

Holy shit. Those are some of the biggest numbers I've every heard someone claim. You smoke 1-2 POUNDS a week? It's no wonder you're enammered with 215 - you are the true mmj patient that the law was designed to protect. I knew there were a few of you out there :wink:

 

[GanjaAL]

Wow... nothing but insults. LOL.

Sorry but it will not get past the concervitive states or the bible belt states... and insults to people sure do alot for your cause.

Smells like desperation so you can make a buck....

While people still go to jail.

What I find is alot of you that are insulting people do not even live in cali!

I will vote no as that is what I feel is best for the state I live in... you should vote on what is best for the state you live in.

 

[vta]

Yes if you could ever catch the sneeks! I`m wondering as I understand almost all rippers are younger men between 17 and 25 how making it harder for younger folks to get weed will play with out with rippers.Seems if they can`t grow or buy they would be even more likely to steal it than they are now!

when I was 17 to 25 I didn't care about leo...I grew anyway. They are rippers because they are common thieves, criminals and deserve whats coming to them.

Imagine for a minute if you will post 19. Say a couples years in. Just about every county in Cali will have cities that have business selling pot. Pot and Hash bars. Oh it will happen. And when it does...guess what happens to leo?. He gets board with it. He can't do much other than dui's. Sure there will be people growing 'outside' the lines but they are already. Pot will become so common place that the cops aren't going to care that much about it after a while....history proves me right.

 

[markscastle]

Here is the deal. You are a certified user of medical marijuana, you are covered under 215 and 420. Right now...today...if you were to be busted for ANY cannabis related offense what would happen? Not you specifically, with all your connections and such but the average med user. Well we already know that 215&420 DO NOT prevent arrest but only a defense in court. So they take your plants and stash, pipes and bongs, what ever they want. You go to court and your lawyer says, "Your honor, My client is a card carrying medical marijuana patient and he has been wrongfully accused of these crimes" you will be tried under the health and safety section pertaining to 215 and 420soon you win your case and you get your dead plants back and your broken roor. Hey that's better than what we had before right?

Now...Mark, after 19 passes, and say you end up in court, your lawyer will say the same damn thing. Because you are a medical user you fall under 215 and 420. You do not fall under 19..whatsoever. 19 'clearly' states 'recreational use' of marijuana. They are two separate laws covering two separate things. Because 19 doesn't say it invalidates 215 for anything YOU can come up with doesn't mean jack. 19 doesn't have to say "and 215 exempt this and that" In fact although it was not needed legally, the 'did' put in there that med users are exempt....they didn't have to as the LAW already assures this.

Bottom line is if your a med user you get tried under med laws...don't say kelly this and that...kelly does have all the weight in the world for us now and it will after 19...its the law. And 19 can't change that.

Also...why are do damn worried about smoking in the privacy of your home while your 18 year old is there? Do cops hang outside your windows? WTF? You are really stretching it there man. This law may not be the end all to cannabis prohibition but it's a lot better than what the "recreational' users have now. And it will just make being a patient a little easier too.

I agree 215 doesn`t always stop Leo from bringing people to court. Hell lots of times the fed come in guns a blazing and confiscate everything they can with growers but never end up making an arrest. Why should they when they can steal you blind and shut you down with little expence on there part? What can you do about it if they take your money ,your house,your car and everything you own? No way to pay for justis and just out of luck! Real nasty of them if you ask me!

I agree prop 19 does nothing to change prop 215 but I don`t agree it does nothing to over ride Kelly vs. the People and it also doesn`t stop the Feds in any way other than intice them to be angry about loss of control of California.Who knows what they will do to us if prop 19 passes! They may even withhold tax money for the state like they did over The 70 mph speed limit for awhile until California chicken `d out and dropped to 55mph.They have alot of things they could do as well as just down play it like they did with prop 215. we just don`t know what they might do or not!

 

[igrowone]

I agree prop 19 does nothing to change prop 215 but I don`t agree it does nothing to over ride Kelly vs. the People and it also doesn`t stop the Feds in any way other than intice them to be angry about loss of control of California.Who knows what they will do to us if prop 19 passes! They may even withhold tax money for the state like they did over The 70 mph speed limit for awhile until California chicken `d out and dropped to 55mph.They have alot of things they could do as well as just down play it like they did with prop 215. we just don`t know what they might do or not!

that is possible, certainly within their power
but there is a rub here is this is a voter proposition, not a legislature bill
no telling how the voters may react, most aren't too fond of the federal government right now for some reason
voters might take out their displeasure on a senator or congressional rep

 

[dagnabit]

OK if you have to push your ideas with a strong mesure of fear in order to get people to vote on your side what`s that say about you and your prop 19? I mean it just won`t work with me as what the hell do I have to fear in my condition? The cops are the least of my problems, I worrie about rippers far more than the cops,even the real anti drug ones and there are more that a few of them around here also!

really?

we have been pushing fear?

you have been shown time and again how your med coverage will not be affected yet you push fear.

as for your under 18 grandkids...

if you were not med covered you would be subject to prosecution under 272a1 now for possession in their presence if the cop was a dick.

that will not change after 19


please stop lying?

This Act is not intended to affect the application or enforcement of the following state laws relating to public health and safety or protection of children and others: Health and Safety Code sections 11357 [relating to possession on school grounds]; 11361 [relating to minors as amended herein]; 11379.6 [relating to chemical production]; 11532 [relating to loitering to commit a crime or acts not authorized by law]; Vehicle Code section 23152 [relating to driving while under the influence]; Penal Code section 272 [relating to contributing to the delinquency of a minor]; nor any law prohibiting use of controlled substances in the workplace or by specific persons whose jobs involve public safety.

 

[midgethorse]

When they give us an inch ..lets take an inch...
Just think 20 years ago and to the point we are now...
Just my opinion, take it for a grain
Midgethorse (hell with this...perhaps a future west coaster)

 

[Tom Hill]

Once upon a time and since the beginning, cannabis was enjoyed and revered for all of its excellent properties.

Then big biz clowns and big government clown law makers got together probably on some golf course and came up with this ridiculous plan - 'When we get back to the office, let's demonize cannabis, tell a crap load of lies about it, give it a new scary name, and trick our ignorant peers into making it illegal. They didn't think to themselves "oh man, this will never fly" they just did it and it worked. Believe me money was agreed to exchange hands that day on the golf course. And as surreal as it sounds, there it still stands today. In spite of overwhelming evidence out of their own camps no less stating that cannabis is like the safest and most useful thing going.

To see who benefits most from prohibition (aside from the original big biz golfcourse clowns) we need to look no further than some on the list officially signing up for a no vote on this thing. The DEA, police, jails, etc, cannabis prohibition puts money in their pockets - cannabis prohibition is big business.

At the end of the day imo all these hippie-dippie arguments of no taxation and free cannabis to the world will add up to squat - worthless and delusional.

Make no mistake about it, this thing is about money. It's about adding-up how much big government is being paid to keep cannabis down and saying - hey big bro, cannabis has way deeper pockets than they do and can offer you (and the earth) a much much better deal - this is the only language big government speaks.

 

[JamieShoes]

jails in particular want nothing to do with relaxing ANY laws... those guys are making a killing and I don't just mean in Texas

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

First of all, I happen to work seasonally for wine makers in Santa Cruz county and I have quite a bit of first hand experience working in an agricultural field. I am insulted by your assumption referring to me, in a growing forum nonetheless, that I am "non agricultural people."

Again, you also fail to acknowledge the fact that no where else in business is what you are espousing a trend. Nike doesn't sell cheaper sneakers. Chevys were just as crappy and priced the same when they were made in Mexico. I'm REALLY trying to think of some precedent to back up the claims that these large corps are going to drive down the price of their own products. I think it is asinine, and it's not a well thought through idea, I'm sorry.


$.10 per gram doesn't strike me as a commercial operation, more like a bare minimum one, complete with State Park land and a tent. Remember that these people are going to need a PR office, an HR office, an AR office, R&D, and of course the Manuel labor. Maybe you do have more experience picking harvests than I do, but when was the last time you had to interview with human resources for the R&D manager position? I'm guessing never. It's a brave new world, and in my mind I see a tremendous amount of overhead, even on the scale of hundreds of pounds per day. Each employee needs a salary, 401K, health insurance, and probably legal insurance as well, even for the trimmers. These guys are producing a seriously MASSIVE amount of bud, but there is also a seriously massive overhead as well, and I can only imagine you've minimized the operation to fit more closely to what you've worked with in the past. Based on my experience with the wine community I think that is a better framework for how it will all go down, just with a much larger legal budget.

When I consider soil treatments after harvest, along with everything else... I dunno man. I sure cannot get behind 10 cents per gram. I could meet you half way at 50 cents though, that would be low, but realistic for a large enough outdoor grow I suppose, even after trimming.

I'm saying that $120 per ounce is easily double profits for a home-based grower. I couldn't care less about people who want to keep making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on bud yearly keeping their luxurious lifestyle, call it jealousy. I am talking about the people who can still make 40K a year with something I consider to be a hobby, even in a VERY competitive market place. With a real job and then that 40K to pay for the mortgage, the cars, the vacations, college tuitions... etc. Even at lower than market prices the regular guy with a green thumb can still retire early.

I do not think prices will drop to $120 on the ounce. $200 on the ounce, or maybe $150/ounce on the pound. To be perfectly open I think that is a very reasonable price without the "risk."

So, Sam, I think you misread what I said, you took me as a "no" voter and attacked me needlessly. You made assumptions, and you wrote me off. I am a little offended by your attitude towards me, your behavior as a moderator of a forum, and as a respected member of the community I serve. You, sir, are held to a higher standard than those of us who are subject to the ban hammer due to your "grandfathered" reputation. Presenting yourself as a respectable authority will go a long way, and dropping the "zero experience" "you're an idiot" talk would make your tone appear to match your age. IMO, from what I've read in these last few pages (my only contact with you every) I find you to sound no more civil or mature than the next person here, so I've addressed you in the manner I would anyone else.

Really I was attacking the price of $2 a gram which you have now dropped to $.50 a gram including manicuring so now we are not so far from agreement.

So maybe I am wrong about you having a agricultural backround but when you say $2 a gram production costs, and you can buy a cheap bottle of wine for about that price it is obvious your numbers are way out of wack. Which requires more labor to grow and make a bottle of wine or an ounce of herb? Remember I had said minus manicuring.

Public Relations? Human Relations? AR? R&D? How many fruit or vegitable growers or even wine growers have all of these?

You remind me of the people that said the prices would never come down, yet today they are half the price of a decade ago or do you deny this? Anyway, one of us is correct, prices will fall or not if Prop 19 passes, time will tell.
Your post implied you believed legal recreational Cannabis would be produced indoors under lights for $60 an ounce, wholesale for $120 I said outdoors it will be more like $.10 minus manicuring.
You implied I did not understand the complexities of running a big enterprise with lots of employees and all the legal requirements that are involved, but you are wrong about this. No problem, really my disagreement was about pricing and you already went from $2 down to $.50 so what can I say? And I stick to my statement that it is possible to grow Cannabis by the ton for $.10 a gram, including all costs. What do you think the costs are to produce most agricultural products like the grapes used to make wine? Any idea what the wineries pay to the grape growers? That is the price to look at. Hint, it is by the ton not the gram. Did not mean to ruffle your feathers, just wanted to correct your misconceptions about the costs to grow 1 gram of Cannabis. And to remind you legal recreational Cannabis will be grown outdoors for pennies a gram not indoors under light for dollars a gram. Common sense should tell you that I am right.
And I have grown Cannabis outdoors by the ton in dozens of countries, so I know the costs involved, I am not speculating...

-SamS

 

[markscastle]

really?

we have been pushing fear?

you have been shown time and again how your med coverage will not be affected yet you push fear.

as for your under 18 grandkids...

if you were not med covered you would be subject to prosecution under 272a1 now for possession in their presence if the cop was a dick.

that will not change after 19


please stop lying?

Yes but I am old enough to remember when California had some very harsh laws on the books about marijuana.It didn`t make much of a influence on what I did then and it wouldn`t matter what any new law changes I won`t be cooperating anyway.I`m close to the grey area now with plant count cause people keep giving me clones and Cali sure has a lot of good clones if you know the right people.Then I also have been collecting seeds for so many years and have so many now I may never live long enough to grow em all out. If anything marijuana isn`t addictive but growing sure is with me! I could never have enough room or time to do all the breading projects I`d like to do. And as for seeds I`m still collecting them all the time and do some trades for even more. I dont need all the bud I grow but don`t sell it, I give alot away.I did try selling bud for awhile but I hate selling bud I just like growing it so much more!Anyway I don`t much like how Prop 19 eats away at parents rights like so many other laws they keep pushing. They can keep there worthless village away from my children and now Grand Kids! All there village to raise a child stuff and they can`t even keep the child molesters away from schools,churches,YMCA,Boy Scouts,swim teams and the list goes on for ever! And that`s just one bad influence that`s going around in the village, there`s alot of other problems kids run into also! By the way you really make me cry calling me a lier dagnabit want to step it up and call my mom some names also? Oh Bo hoo ! You act`n troll like when you do that brother! It really helps your cause look so good also! I`m just likely to run down and vote yes on Prop 19 cause I feel so beholding as to feel I owe taxes on my pot and need to support the buracrates and money makers more cause they just need my money more than I do! You got me all convenced! (not)

 

[delerious]

TomHill - who besides big pharma was there? Didn't Henry Ford build a hemp car that ran on hemp oil - probably worried a few other big players.

BTW... I saw a video of him bouncing a sledge hammer off of it. I like what 19 does for industrial hemp - I think there's some serious money that could be made.