ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[GanjaAL]

I find it funny all these out of staters telling us Californians what to do...LOL

I am a native american, veteran and californian and I am voting no because of reasons I feel that are important to me. Keeping people out of jail. If it would change the reason why people are going to jail in record numbers I would be on it like white on rice. If people absolutely have to smoke... go get a rec as it offers more freedom than this prop19! With the execption under prop 19 you can make a killer profit but under 215 you can't. Not to mention that Mr. Lee is going to be flooding the market and it should be real inexpensive for meds.

 

[JackTheGrower]

We have months to talk this out ... I'm sure people will do the "right thing " when the time arrives. Just because I asked a question about how a commercial grower with a felony would fare in the whole thing doesn't mean I would vote no ... or that I am a commercial grower. We are lucky enough to have this open forum to really examine the nuts and bolts of this thing... if we don't take advantage of it and truly look at this thing from every angle possible then that will show who we are. Lets keep discussing this openly and diplomatically .... just because I ask a question for the "no" side doesn't mean I would vote "no" it just means I want to help get more info on the board. Lets keep talking and questioning and really making sure everyone has all the facts. The truth always speaks for itself

Pardon Me but the theme of Kissing ass comes up too often.

Why? Why are we Lucky?

What is the nature of this Luck?

What are the consequences for not being Lucky?

I'm drawing attention to a myth of reality.

Food for thought.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Now I would like to say that my hopes for Cali legalizing does not mean that I like Richard Lee. To be honest, I don't trust him. His thinking he will have a "monopoly" growing marijuana is very unlikely. There are a lot of people with a lot more money than he has. Even though I don't like what I think he may be trying to do, I'll give him some credit for getting something going to make Cannabis growing and smoking legalized for adults....

Are you the Old JJScorpio or are you a New JJScorpio?

 

[Jalisco Kid]

California are not the balls of the world. You others need to reach down and find your own pair. It is a bad law. It takes too long to change bad laws. We can rewrite it and vote a good in in a year and a half.JK

 

[bdakind]

PLEASE READ,ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE:

PLEASE READ,ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE:

Marijuana is basically decriminalized for personal use in California and is considered a medicine.

This bill will change marijuana from a respectable medicine to a category of alcohol and cigarettes.

How is gov handling the control, tax, and regulation of cigarettes and alcohol?? What is the tax on cigarettes/alcohol compared to their cost to produce?? How many mom and pop tobacco farmers or alcohol distillers do you know?

How are those taxes benefiting those who are paying them?

How about the class action lawsuits? Being in Califorinia, everyone is sue happy and as soon as people start to smell a payday, the lawsuits will begin and who do you think is going to pay for that. The big factory owners?? or do you think those costs will be brought to the consumer?

Do not kid yourself, these are the realities of this passing prop 19.


Would it be better for all if it continued to be labeled as medicine?

I feel much better about the positivity and respect this label represents.
Medicine is not taxed in America and prescribed drugs are write offs.

So we can either:
A) get money back from the government for the medicine we buy
or
B)vote yes on prop 19 and demote our medicine to a vice that needs to be heavily taxed to discourage its use.


Why would you ever vote to tax something that is not already taxed?

One answer that I've heard is, "California needs the money".

FYI. California is the 8th largest economy in the world. We do not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem..

Do you believe that the government will spend your earned money more wisely than you can?

Will your tax dollars benefit you better in the hands of the government than in your pocket?

This is about control, regulation and taxation just as the title suggests.

This has nothing to do with legalization.

25'ft, what a joke.

25'feet to grow a plant that is completely safe, even if you are the only one capable of supplying your loved ones??? This is going backwards from current California law.

In current system, the best product at the cheapest price is what will end up in the hands of the consumers.

In post prop 19 the gov will tell you who you are allowed to buy from and will forever increase the taxes regulations. This will increase the end cost while squeezing out the mom and pop farmers.

If you decide to buy/sell/trade your neighbor or local farmer who has not been "regulated" and don't have the right receipt you could face a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail....WHAT???

This will not be the last time a marijuana measure hits the ballot. How fast is the Medical Marijuana Movement Growing??

Is there any logical reason why it will slow down or go backwards??

All signs are pointing to an increase in awareness and benefits of medical marijuana and that it is here to stay.

We do not have to take the first peace of crap that made the ballots just because it says "marijuana" in it. We need to continue the GOOD fight and push for keeping the medicine label. With that we can push for not only a safe, tax free medicine but a safe, tax deductible medicine.



IF THIS RESONATES WITH YOU PLEASE SHARE

 

[Hammerhead]

well for me its good. i don't have kids that live with me. I don't know anyone under 35. well I know some but I don't smoke with them. I'm not in it for money. I grow my own and provide some for anyone that's over 21 for free all I ask is if you get it from me you don't sale to minors and don't smoke in front of children and only carry nor more then 1oz on you.


Have you guys seen the new commercial for glass freeze pops absolutely grasping at straws with that one.

 

[Chief Rbud]

25 square feet of growing area-- Unless you smoke a gram a month, you cannot do a proper Flower, veg, Mother and Clone area under those constraints--

your kidding right?in less than 4 square feet i yielded over 7 ounces on my 1st indoor attempt under compact flourescents with sativa dominant strains not known to yield well. with indicas i could have doubled that. i could easily keep 10-15 mothers and grow out 6 nice females in that space. the 7 ounce yield was from 2 plants, nearly 6 ounces from one, and about an ounce from the other much smaller bud on a stick. if growing 8 week strains with a perpetual system with 6 plants flowering and 3 of them being harvested every 8 weeks i could easily pull more than a pound every 8 weeks. thats with compact flourescents. what could you do with HID. NO ONE that isnt sick in some way can smoke that much weed by themselves. if you do you have a major problem and no life whatsoever. medical patients who do smoke that much because of pain or other ailments aren't affected by the space limitation. its plenty of space. and in a state where my 2 plants can get me more than 10 years, id be bending over backwards to get this law passed. you guys are looking a gift horse in the mouth and dont realize how good it can be if this were passed. im trying to figure out now how i can uproot a life of over 40 years and move out west so i can legally grow, its not easy to do when all your friends and family are here.

 

[mullray]

im voting NO

prop 215 works fine for me!

fuck richard lee!

Note NorCal.... Fuck you

 

[2Lazy]

But it isn't just medicine. Hell, cocaine is "medicine." Opiates are "medicine." It all depends on the use of the drug and the bottom line is that hearing a stoned as hell 22 year old slurry out "it's medicinal man" is taking away from the legitimacy of that movement. Marijuana is, for many people, about as medicinal as a glass of wine and the people who really need this stuff have to wait in line at a dispensary while frauds get their buds.

I smoke pot because yeah, it mellows me out, it helps me sleep... But so does spanking the fapmaster. Should masturbation be protected as "medicinal?" IMO, No. I use MJ because I like to, not because I have to, and I think there are a lot of other "medical" users who feel this way as well. There are probably more people who have some lame illness to hop on the medicinal band wagon then there are legit patients. My girl got her card for a slipped disc in her back, she says it helps with the pain and the swelling, and on top of that she doesn't have panic attacks any more. That's closer to medicinal, but not everyone has a legit reason. Some people just like smoking pot because it makes them feel better, which is no different than a cup of coffee for the caffeine.

For this stuff to be truly medical, as I've always said, it needs to be produced in a manner befitting medicine (which means oversight, responsibility). Not in some old hippies dank basement, but in a state of the art facility to control quality and health. Who oversees this production is up for debate, but I think if the FDA would get off their asses and quit worrying about the politics could do a lot of good for the legitimacy of this movement.

With Proposition 19 I think all the important parts are covered. Recreational use is allowed, and that's the most important part. With the direction cigarettes have taken regarding public use its retarded to think that some day society will be cool with weed use in public areas. The whole growing space is acceptable and localities can increase the size allowed. Kids shouldn't be smoking buds, any more than they should be drinking, and I'm not looking to get people out of jail with this bill. Probable cause goes out the window for recreational users, bongs and pipes are legal, and the overall attitude towards pot will change DRASTICALLY with the passing of this bill.

Then when people see cannabis has merits and isn't evil real progress can be made. It's sort of a matter of stoners not screwing it up. I'd rather live 5 years under prop. 19 and amend it then to go another 5 years watching people who clearly don't "need" medicine using the guise of medical marijuana.

Personally speaking, prop 19 covers everything I need it to. I'll never go anywhere with more than 1oz on me, and I can easily grow and smoke all I want in my own home, with whatever responsible adult I choose to, without having to sign up for a license or pay for some ridiculous yearly fees and doctor visits. I can't ask for more than that as a recreational pot smoker who happens to have had two knee surgeries.

 

[Chief Rbud]

Yeah. As I thought.

Both the articles about Haiti and Pakistan reveal the IMF's public relations efforts. Nothing more. On the one hand, showing compassion to Haiti is expected since the disaster. Haiti can't repay it's debt anyway... so its a no brainer. In regard to Pakistan, ANYTHING the US can do their to keep from losing control of the country's military dictatorship is being done.

I'd be more convinced that there was something to your point if you were to provide me with detailed analysis of where IMF money is spent and what is lost to these nations because of the debt and interest burdens incurred. Two of three articles were puff peices. I am still analyzing the third.



Granted, I may have applied a bit too much hyperbole in comparing the IMF to the mafia, but only a bit. The IMF uses these negotiations to manipulate, often as political leverage in the UN. Look at some of the insignificant countries who have helped pass resolutions for recent wars and block resolutions that might censure (for example) Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes, and THEN look into the state of their international debt.

I have read extensively about IMF and World Bank practices over the last 12 years. Books, studies, defenses. The light reading you suggest in no way convinces me to change my opinion. And a good argument always has that potential with me. My mind and heart are open to 180s when the evidence is there.

whats lost as soon as they sign on the dotted line is their sovereignty, not to mention all of their natural resources are taken as collateral against the loans. the IMF are a bunch of illuminati thugs 100% worse than the mafia ever dreamed of being. these nations lose everything they have of value for a few crumbs from the IMF. which do nothing but enrich 1 generation of politicians. while ALL of their natural resources are raped and pillaged for an eternity. that is the reality of the IMF.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

This bill will change marijuana from a respectable medicine to a category of alcohol and cigarettes.

...

Would it be better for all if it continued to be labeled as medicine?

It's not changing anything to do with 215/420. Medicine will still be medicine. An illegal substance will no longer be illegal, and will be in the same category as other legal, regulated substances.

This is about control, regulation and taxation just as the title suggests.

This has nothing to do with legalization.

25'ft, what a joke.

25'feet to grow a plant that is completely safe, even if you are the only one capable of supplying your loved ones??? This is going backwards from current California law.

Nothing to do with legalization? 25 sq ft is a joke? You know what's a joke? The current ZERO SQUARE FEET allowed.

Anyone complaining about not being able to supply themselves and their loved ones with 25 sq ft must be a piss poor grower.

 

[Chief Rbud]

People who's sole income is based on this product in california won't be able to compete when large corporations open 500,000 sq foot warehouses and churn out pot. Even if that didn't happen, just it becoming legal will drastically reduce the cost. It in no way guarantees that quality will go up.

It will be the Walmart affect.

99.9% of the people who are so psyched about this law are people who's income doesn't depend on the market staying where it is at. If legalized, as you said, prices will drop to the point where the normal medical provider won't be able to continue anymore.

the bigger the garden, the less the quality of the care. if i lived there and could grow legally, i know i could produce enough in the 25 square feet to meet my needs and a wife, and make more money with the rest than i currently make working a job. i would have top of the line genetics grown 100% organically, and their is always a niche market for top quality, and there always will be. the small grower could easily make a living from this selling to tourists.

 

[kmk420kali]

your kidding right?in less than 4 square feet i yielded over 7 ounces on my 1st indoor attempt under compact flourescents with sativa dominant strains not known to yield well. with indicas i could have doubled that. i could easily keep 10-15 mothers and grow out 6 nice females in that space. the 7 ounce yield was from 2 plants, nearly 6 ounces from one, and about an ounce from the other much smaller bud on a stick. if growing 8 week strains with a perpetual system with 6 plants flowering and 3 of them being harvested every 8 weeks i could easily pull more than a pound every 8 weeks. thats with compact flourescents. what could you do with HID. NO ONE that isnt sick in some way can smoke that much weed by themselves. if you do you have a major problem and no life whatsoever. medical patients who do smoke that much because of pain or other ailments aren't affected by the space limitation. its plenty of space. and in a state where my 2 plants can get me more than 10 years, id be bending over backwards to get this law passed. you guys are looking a gift horse in the mouth and dont realize how good it can be if this were passed. im trying to figure out now how i can uproot a life of over 40 years and move out west so i can legally grow, its not easy to do when all your friends and family are here.

I am an outdoor/greenhouse grower...so yeah, maybe I have some stuff to learn about micro grows...but damn, that seems like you got a lot out of a 2x2 space!! Nice job!!
Just to set a couple of your other misconceptions straight...
The space does not go up if there are more smokers...it is a 5x5 per residence or parcel--
Med Patients have no space limits--
Remember bro...we already have legalization through 215....and anybody can get it-- It was written that way for a reason--
Oh...I feel like I need to add this to my sig (lol)...I am a (reluctant) Yes voter...I just am very wary of a few of the points from this-- I feel it is worded in a way that is specifically designed to give vast freedoms for changing it (for the worse) later-- And I feel that we Growers are getting the short end of the stick-- Of course I am Med, so it doesn't effect me....yet--
Peace--

 

[kmk420kali]

the bigger the garden, the less the quality of the care. if i lived there and could grow legally, i know i could produce enough in the 25 square feet to meet my needs and a wife, and make more money with the rest than i currently make working a job. i would have top of the line genetics grown 100% organically, and their is always a niche market for top quality, and there always will be. the small grower could easily make a living from this selling to tourists.

That will be illegal...if you are gonna sell illegally, why would you even be worried about this Prop??

 

[localhero]

whats interesting is the weight a governor has on signing in new legislation that can be brought up by california congress to change 19.

that makes it so so so important to make sure we vote in the most pot liberal gov in nov.

my prediction is that the closer we get to election time, the no on 19 polling will climb as meg whitman energizes the hard core conservative vote with her anti immigration stance.

thats worrisome, it reminds me of bush and the bible nut push he used to get him close enough to be illegally placed as president.

so my urging is this; please icmaggers who for whatever reason are excited by an anti illegal immigrant gov, it would be fucking death to the cause. she has come out heavily against the mj movement. and it would be her signature any pro marijuana legislation would absolutely need to become law under 19.

thats my piece for now on this, goodnight, im off to the beach tomorrow and spending quality time with the lady, so i wont be back for a bit.

please read back a few pages about how 19 can be changed by cali legislature and needs a sig by the gov. its perturbing. ive worked on numerous props in my life, and ive never seen that ever put in a prop. maybe thats why i missed it. but thats one hell of a compromise they never had to put in there. it wasnt in 215.

laters.

 

[Chief Rbud]

most of the people bitching about the law are doing it illegally now anyway with peril to their freedom, this would allow small time growers a way to legally grow all year long and then make 1 run to another state and unload and make a fortune, all the while being legally protected by the state law while growing it. personally i wouldnt bother selling it, id be happy with variety of herb i could legally produce, im just pointing this out. its plenty of space, anyone who doesnt think so isnt looking for personal consumption, they are looking to sell. im only pointing out i could stay baked, and still make a living from that space, thats all im saying, so it is definitely enough for personal use. and i made a mistake, my space including the plant width was a little under 2x3, not 2x2. but still, only an extra 1.5 square feet.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am sorry but prop 19 will not keep people out of jail. Again... people are going to jail for carrying more than an oz. This will not change. It is 6 months in jail and 500.00 fine for carrying more than an oz... and this is what is the leading cause of arrests in california.

For less than an oz people are only getting tickets for 100.00.

So as you can see prop19 will not do anything to curb the incarceration rate and may infact increase it by people thinking it is a free for all as taxation is not legalization.

Yes Prop 19 does allow more then 1 ounce to be transported from a legal permitted large commercial grow to the processor or wholesaler or retailer, depending on local county laws that will be enacted if Prop 19 passes.
But if you are worried it won't be legal to transport 100 Lb's you grew at home under lights without permission from the county, stop worrying, you wont want to transport 100 Lb's as no one will pay the inflated prices of indoor under lights Cannabis as soon as outdoor grown Agri-Biz Cannabis is available at a fraction of the price. So there will be no need to transport over an ounce, get it?
Wise up, things will change, prices will drop radically. and a lot of Cannabis growers will move on to others ways to make an income.
No problem,
Cannabis first, growers second...

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

MC Seeds stands against Prop 19 and asks that you vote NO in November against Taxing,Regulation, and Control of our Blessed Sanctification in Cannabis.

I suggest no one buy any products from people or companies that support a NO vote on Prop 19.
Or am I wrong that we should spend our dollars with people that put Cannabis first?

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It may pass or it may fail but real Heros or our modern age will not stop with Prop 19.
Those satisfied with Prop 19 are the ones making Money on it from what I can tell.

The elitist profiteers are the same as Slavers of old IMO.

So get out and Vote your mine but Vote..

Funny how clearly you can see that supporters of Prop 19 are the ones that you say will make money on it passing.
Yet don't see or condemn those that oppose Prop 19 for the exact same reason, they like how it is now and don't want prices to fall by 90% or more if Prop 19 passes. They don't want legal Cannabis grown by Agri-Biz as they know they can't compete, and will not be able to make a profit.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

If you are looking for Cali to set an example, we already did! Copy prop 215 and make Medical Marijuana legal in your state! Once it is fully in place you might feel a little different about passing something like Prop 19 in your state!

Not one other of the 14 medical states that passed medical Cannabis have a law like 215, why not?
Do you have any common sense at all?
And what about recreational use? Do you feel that they should go to jail for smoking Cannabis? Or is your suggestion to lie and get a Doc's permission to use Cannabis as a medicine, but really use it for recreational?
I want my right to use Cannabis recreationally, I don't want to pay a doctor so I can lie and get permission to pretend it is medicine, when it may or may not be. As well I want prices to drop by 90%, and Cannabis to be normalized and mainstream. And don't forget under Prop 19 industrial hemp is legal to grow...

-SamS