ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[Kalicokitty]

99.9% of people are not familiar with the language of the bill.
If it passes I can say to my neighbor, hey, did you see they legalized MJ in Cali?
And he will say "yeah" and we can talk about it, everyone will be talking about it, and 99.999% of people are not going to be saying, yeah, but it's only an OZ you can travel with, and a 5x5 growing area, they will be looking at it as legalization.
These little sticking points the money grubbers are pretending to be hung up on will be unknown to the vast majority of people around the world.

They will only be talking about how Cali legalized MJ
The ball will start rolling.


On the flip side if it fails, 99.9999% of people will not be saying it was because it was a badly written bill, or the other little petty stuff the no people are putting forward.
They will look at it as the people were given the choice to make it legal, and the people said no.
And it will set us back years around the world.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I have read that restrictions on medical grows are holding up in court. Such as no outside gardens or cannot be seen when someone looks over the fence.

My point is Prop 19 defers this height of plants and other regulatory matters to local Government.

So yes 1 foot tall is possible especially in the "Dry Counties" prop 19 allows for. A "Dry County" is a county where one cannot have or conduct Cannabis business such as a coffee shop or over the counter sales. Prop 19 allows for counties to allow or not allow Canna-businesses to operate. I'm sure cultivation of any kind will be viewed as business as it is now.

Perhaps someone can show me why this is not true with actual Prop 19 language?

I just find the defence of Prop 19 that 25 sq ft is okay because we can grow trees a bit of a reach if not a lie.

Prop 19 doesn't bring Cannabis Freedom to all. The first thing it does is create two classes of Citizen. The Corporate Citizen has rights to all aspects of Cannabis Horticulture and the Individual must own Property to have a Garden and then is limited to their Cannabis Horticulture rights.
Corporations are not living things and they will get more rights than living people from my perspective.
That imbalance of Liberty is alarming to me.

 

[JJScorpio]

That imbalance of Liberty is alarming to me.

It's alarming to a lot of us why so many people are siding with Law Enforcement regarding this Bill....

If I were a LEO and I read some of this I'd be happy knowing what is going on....

 

[JackTheGrower]

99.9% of people are not familiar with the language of the bill.
If it passes I can say to my neighbor, hey, did you see they legalized MJ in Cali?
And he will say "yeah" and we can talk about it, everyone will be talking about it, and 99.999% of people are not going to be saying, yeah, but it's only an OZ you can travel with, and a 5x5 growing area, they will be looking at it as legalization.
These little sticking points the money grubbers are pretending to be hung up on will be unknown to the vast majority of people around the world.

They will only be talking about how Cali legalized MJ
The ball will start rolling.


On the flip side if it fails, 99.9999% of people will not be saying it was because it was a badly written bill, or the other little petty stuff the no people are putting forward.
They will look at it as the people were given the choice to make it legal, and the people said no.
And it will set us back years around the world.

Good Morning.

Another possibility is if it fails everyone will continue as we are now; More Brave, More Aware, More Organized, More out of the closet.

If we keep going and perhaps look again as California Cannabis Initiative and Jack Herrer's Initiative we can get a better Initiative on the Ballot in 2012. 2012 is a Presidential election year and more people vote then than they do in a not Presidential election year. More Democrats Vote I should say.

The Cat is out of the Bag here in California.. We have had so much press coverage and open discussion that we cannot go back.
We would be starting from a point even in Stanislaus County that folks won't be as afraid to get out and Gather Signatures as they were.

That's the sticky point either we raise the money to pay for signatures or enough people get out and gather them.

So this cycle of voting isn't the end of the road.. Consider that if Prop 19 fails it won't be by much. We might attract big money donations for the next Initiative.

So politics is politics.. We just have to have solidarity. After all More freedom doesn't hurt Businesses like Oakland Cannabis Factories but it would mean you and I can breed plants in our Greenhouses that are larger than 25 sq ft.

 

[JJScorpio]

So by solidarity do you mean we should all endorse this Bill failing like Law Enforcment has done? That will send a clear message.......

 

[vta]

1 foot? lol

your really reaching now.

have you ever heard of 'voter intent'?

19 may not bring total freedom to all...but it will bring freedom to millions of Californians. And it's just a start.

 

[JackTheGrower]

It's alarming to a lot of us why so many people are siding with Law Enforcement regarding this Bill....

If I were a LEO and I read some of this I'd be happy knowing what is going on....

You don't understand what I wrote. I can explain if you like.
Horticulture is the practice.. Wait let me borrow Wikipedia's quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulture

Horticulture is the industry and science of plant cultivation including the process of preparing soil for the planting of seeds, tubers, or cuttings.[1] Horticulturists work and conduct research in the disciplines of plant propagation and cultivation, crop production, plant breeding and genetic engineering, plant biochemistry, and plant physiology. The work basically involves fruits, berries, nuts, vegetables, flowers, trees, shrubs, and turf. Horticulturists work to improve crop yield, quality, nutritional value, and resistance to insects, diseases, and environmental stresses. Horticulture usually refers to gardening on a smaller scale, while agriculture refers to the large-scale cultivation of crops.[2] The word is composite, from two words, horti, meaning grass, originating in the Greek χορτον, meaning the same (grass) and the word "culture".

Horticulture is a basic right going back thousand's of years of human history.

How championing rights to Cannabis Horticulture for us is being a LEO is a bit weird or should I say reflects a maturity level?
Perhaps you meant that anyone successfully opposing Prop 19 is LEO-Like in you opinion.

I don't mind "arguing" meaning to discuss and I have been raised on the threads here on ICMag for my education as well as attending the Prop 19 meeting where I suggested our best bet was 2012. I have to thank all our wonderful member for the education on this subject I do.

So if I am a LEO I support complete Legalization of Cannabis as the place to start. No Crimes for cultivation , possession or distribution of such at all. As a Starting point that is.

I support the ability to grow out 100 plants to find the right genetics for breeding.
I Support giving pounds to friends if I have it to give and I support large gardens and tall trees..

Freedom is ours if we will just get off our asses and do something.

Under my idea Businesses will still have all the rights they get in Prop 19 its just that the people will be on equal footing with Corporations.

So LEO? I wish I was making the money the Police do but I couldn't pass the test for any police job I am sure.

 

[JackTheGrower]

1 foot? lol

your really reaching now.

have you ever heard of 'voter intent'?

19 may not bring total freedom to all...but it will bring freedom to millions of Californians. And it's just a start.

They banned outdoor cultivation entirely in Mantica.. How is it they couldn't restrict to 1 foot tall?

If this is Freedom for some and not for all isn't that wrong?

 

[GanjaAL]

It's alarming to a lot of us why so many people are siding with Law Enforcement regarding this Bill....

If I were a LEO and I read some of this I'd be happy knowing what is going on....

I am wondering the same thing! As most of LE want this bill to pass...LOL. I think it has to do with the fact that they get grant money for marijuana busts from the federal government.

 

[localhero]

* You'd have the right to grow for personal use without a permit or taxation.
* You'd have the right to keep as much as you could grow for personal use, and the right to GIFT or TRADE an ounce at a time to your friends or to have them do the same for you.
* You'd have the right to follow due process of law and acquire the rights to sell or purchase herb legally without the need of medical backing.
* You'd have the freedom to do so on the DL without having to register yourself as a Cannabis Medical Patient.
* You'd have the right to carry 1 ounce on your person when in public.
* Allow for scientific and medical study of the plant.




Not needing a doc to declare your smoking medically necessary in order to do it IS a factual facty fact factoid factarooni.

You might not see the value in it, but I and many others DO in fact see the value.




We've already posted this stuff in this very thread. But I'll throw you a bone. (I expect a response since I'm taking the trouble to post something you could easily read for yourself.)


There's the part where you can carry an ounce on you.



That's the part where you can grow your own without a license or taxation or anything.



That's the part about how you can have more than an ounce in your home.

Does that address your concerns?

im quoting you quoting me who then quoted in actual parts of 19.

some reason none of the quotes are showing up, suffice to say that he did actually quote 19.

suffice it to also say that nothing he quoted offered more protection or freedoms than 215 has allowed.

please, somebody show how 19 beats 215.

otherwise some wise ass is gonna say:

"hey why did you vote for a prop that took away rights and not add to them? you could have lived happily under 215 while you worked on an actual legalization bill and not had to compromise with 19. now look what happened, mcweed has lobbied out all the mom and pops, weed prices are higher than theyve ever been, and more people get fined and jailed than ever before."

and i wont have i wont have anything to say to that other than, well lotsa people yelled and cursed at me on icmag so i shut my mouth.

 

[JackTheGrower]

So by solidarity do you mean we should all endorse this Bill failing like Law Enforcment has done? That will send a clear message.......

Solidarity to stand together for proper Cannabis freedom in 2012.

Even if Prop 19 passes.

I doubt seriously You and VTA are saying that Prop 19 limits on People are the right way to go.

We may take a fall with this Prop 19 but that doesn't have to stop us. Get up again! Get Up Stand Up For Your Rights.

It's a natural plant some say God put here for us. It doesn't kill anyone unless there is money involved.. And so on.

Law Enforcement has to BY LAW be against Cannabis freedom. They don't have a choice.

 

[GanjaAL]

I concure as prop19 puts heavy restrictions and does nothing to curb the incarceration rate. It is a complete act of desperation and the one who will profit the most will be the author of the bill with is mega ganja pharma... however if the mmj movement moves forward it will even the playing field for everyone.

The decriminalization of marijuana for 18 and over for personal use up to eight ounces and to be able to grow collectively or just for personal use. Same penalties as it stands now for illegal sales to minors with rehab for anyone under 18. This would free up the prisons to a tune in the billions maybe even trillions with all the stuff that is required to incarcerate non violent marijuana offenders.

This is achievable but only if we could get the federalies on board... this can be done nation wide through the mmj movement and is moving forward. Hence the VA's decision to alow veterans to use mmj. Which will soon open doors at the federal leve for a defense.

Sorry but the bible belt will not be moved by californias rec use only by mmj. Once it has enought support it will then push for the reclasification of marijuana which will in turn open the doors for said above paragraph... however I see it as prop19 may spoil it if it does not work... big time.

No sin tax either... just a sales tax as it will boost jobs economy ect. Also with this biofuel and the whole lot to include paper making clothing ect.

 

[vta]

As most of LE want this bill to pass...LOL. I think it has to do with the fact that they get grant money for marijuana busts from the federal government.

That prohibitionist lie is just too damn funny....They want it to pass huh.

lets try some 'Facts'

Endorsements for NO on Prop19

District Attorneys:
Patrick McGrath ( District Attorney , Yuba County )
Michael Ramsey ( District Attorney , Butte County )
Steve Cooley ( District Attorney , Los Angeles County )
Jacqueline Jackson ( Deputy District Attorney , Riverside County )
Dolores Carr ( District Attorney , Santa Clara County )
David Paulson ( District Attorney , Solano County )
J. Kirk Andrus ( District Attorney , Siskiyou County )
Gary Lieberstein ( District Attorney , Napa County )
Phillip Cline ( District Attorney , Tulare County )
Bradford Fenocchio ( District Attorney , Placer County )
Michael Harper ( District Attorney , Trinity County )
Birgit Fladager ( District Attorney , Stanislaus County )
Jan Scully ( District Attorney , Sacramento County )
Elizabeth Egan ( District Attorney , Fresno County )
Robert Brown ( District Attorney , Mariposa County )
Robert Holzapfel ( District Attorney , Glenn County )
Dwayne Stewart ( Assistant District Attorney , Glenn County )
Arthur Maillet ( District Attorney , Inyo County )
James Fox ( District Attorney , San Mateo County )
Robert Kochly ( District Attorney , Contra Costa County )
Gilbert Otero ( District Attorney , Imperial County )
Todd Riebe ( District Attorney , Amador County )
Gregory Totten ( District Attorney , Ventura County )
Michael Ramos ( District Attorney , San Bernardino County )
George Booth ( District Attorney , Mono County )
Cliff Newell ( District Attorney , Nevada County )
John Poyner ( District Attorney , Colusa County )
Gerald Benito ( District Attorney , Shasta County )
Jeff Reisig ( District Attorney , Yolo County )
Bonnie Dumanis ( District Attorney, San Diego County )

Sheriffs

Virginia Black ( Retired Sheriff , Yuba County )
Clay Parker ( Sheriff , Tehama County )
Bill Cogbill ( Sheriff , Sonoma County )
Gary Stanton ( Sheriff , Solano County )
Rick Riggins ( Sheriff , Siskiyou County )
John Evans ( Sheriff , Sierra County )
Tom Bosenko ( Sheriff , Shasta County )
Steve Moore ( Sheriff , San Joaquin County )
Curtis Hill ( Sheriff , San Benito County )
Edward Bonner ( Sheriff , Placer County )
Sandra Hutchens ( Sheriff , Orange County )
Doug Koford ( Sheriff , Napa County )
Mike Kanalakis ( Sheriff , Monterey County )
Rick Scholl ( Sheriff , Mono County )
Tom Sawyer ( Retired Sheriff , Merced County )
Tom Allman ( Sheriff , Mendocino County )
John Anderson ( Sheriff , Madera County )
Steven Warren ( Sheriff , Lassen County )
Bill Lutze ( Sheriff , Inyo County )
Warren Rupf ( Sheriff , Contra Costa County )
Martin Ryan ( Sheriff , Amador County )
Gary Philp ( Sheriff , Humboldt County )
Lorrac Craig ( Sheriff , Trinity County )
Rod Hoops ( Sheriff , San Bernardino County )
Manfred Kollar ( Sheriff , El Dorado County )
Margaret Mims ( Sheriff , Fresno County )
Bill Brown ( Sheriff , Santa Barbara County )
Adam Christianson ( Sheriff , Stanislaus County )
E. G. Prieto ( Sheriff , Yolo County )
Scott Marshall ( Sheriff , Colusa County )
Dennis Downum ( Sheriff , Calaveras County )
Donny Youngblood ( Sheriff , Kern County )
J. Paul Parker ( Sheriff , Sutter County )
Keith Royal ( Sheriff , Nevada County )
Gregory Ahern ( Sheriff , Alameda County )
Steven Durfor ( Sheriff , Yuba County )
Brian Muller ( Sheriff , Mariposa County

Police Chiefs


Joseph McKeown ( Retired Police Chief )
Stanley Henry ( Police Chief , Cathedral City Police Department )
John Crombach ( Police Chief , Oxnard Police Department )
James Anderson ( Police Chief , Placentia Police Department )
Tom Chapman ( Police Chief , Arcata Police Department )
Lisa Solomon ( Police Chief , Paso Robles Police Department )
Jacqueline Seabrooks ( Police Chief , Inglewood Police Department )
Mario Krstic ( Police Chief , Farmersville Police Department )
Louis Fetherolf ( Police Chief , Salinas Police Department )
Jim Copsey ( Police Chief , Grover Beach Police Department )
John Schaefer ( Police Chief , San Marino Police Department )
David Lawton ( Police Chief , San Gabriel Police Department )
Thomas Sonoff ( Police Chief , Signal Hill Police Department )
Brian Bowles ( Police Chief , Yreka Police Department )
Paul Cooper ( Police Chief , Claremont Police Department )
Robert Sanderson ( Police Chief , Arcadia Police Department )
Michael McCrary ( Police Chief , Wheatland Police Department )
Steve Smith ( Police Chief , Blythe Police Department )
Joel Bryden ( Police Chief , Walnut Creek Police Department )
James Shaw ( Police Chief , Escalon Police Department )
Stephen Lodge ( Police Chief , Santa Clara Police Department )
Brian Klier ( Interim Police Chief , Sutter Creek Police Department )
Ronald DePompa ( Police Chief , Glendale Police Department )
Mark Siemens ( Police Chief , Rocklin Police Department )
Carlos Mestas ( Police Chief , Hanford Police Department )
Phil Green ( Police Chief , Twin Cities Police Authority )
Peter Hansen ( Police Chief , Redding Police Department )
Kim Raney ( Police Chief , Covina Police Department )

 

[StoneElemental]

Though it would be illegal for them to do so in their own state and the state gave them and holds their jobs and gives them their orders. Not to mention the fact that if they are prosecuting less of the cannabis culture then they would save money especially on man hours and resources. Furthermore they might actually find a little more job security in the state once the state pulls in more tax revenue.

I am wondering the same thing! As most of LE want this bill to pass...LOL. I think it has to do with the fact that they get grant money for marijuana busts from the federal government.

Also for the fairness of corporate growers vs 'mom n pop' growers. This may sound odd but this could end up inadvertently protecting these small business people by giving the feds bigger fish to fry. All the while influencing more and more movements to arise around the country. By this time the bill could be amended or replaced with something better and if not then the gaining momentum around the country would give you better grounds for change on that bill alone while we all make our stand against the D.E.A. and feds. California is not in this alone help yourselves and us the rest of the states can help in return. Don't you think the corporate puppet Obama would be all over this if it ended up benefitting corporate america? Meanwhile he wants to keep the D.E.A fascist as all hell.

take care all
-S.E.

 

[vta]

Solidarity to stand together for proper Cannabis freedom in 2012.

Even if Prop 19 passes.

I doubt seriously You and VTA are saying that Prop 19 limits on People are the right way to go.

We may take a fall with this Prop 19 but that doesn't have to stop us. Get up again! Get Up Stand Up For Your Rights.

It's a natural plant some say God put here for us. It doesn't kill anyone unless there is money involved.. And so on.

Law Enforcement has to BY LAW be against Cannabis freedom. They don't have a choice.

Prop 19 is not perfect...far from it. Way far...like over the mountain far. But...and this is one big But...generally speaking, pros and cons, this law will allow millions of people to grow and smoke cannabis with the fear of arrest. It will be a huge victory for those of us against the WOD. It's message will spread. This will be seen as a victory for cannabis reformers world wide. We made the 1st step in 96 with 215..it made people talk and a dozen years later there are more than a dozen states that have followed. The same will be the same for 19..but only on a much larger scale.

When 19 passes, it will be considered the most liberal cannabis law in the developed world. That says a lot.

 

[localhero]

stone wrote:

"Also for the fairness of corporate growers vs 'mom n pop' growers. This may sound odd but this could end up inadvertently protecting these small business people by giving the feds bigger fish to fry. All the while influencing more and more movements to arise around the country. By this time the bill could be amended or replaced with something better and if not then the gaining momentum around the country would give you better grounds for change on that bill alone while we all make our stand against the D.E.A. and feds. California is not in this alone help yourselves and us the rest of the states can help in return. Don't you think the corporate puppet Obama would be all over this if it ended up benefitting corporate america? Meanwhile he wants to keep the D.E.A fascist as all hell."

^^^ i wonder too what will happen about that. you know, having big money interests fighting on the fed level because a bunch of their ceo's got arrested for growing more than 99 might very well change alot.

damn thats a good point.

one of the best ive seen. still doesnt change 19 v 215.

but it does really ease my mind that positive change could come from this 19 passing.

 

[StoneElemental]

Oh the power of positive thinking! And not to contend with you local but 215 isnt verse 19 nor does 19 'supersede' 215. 215 is for the medical portion of the laws and 19 takes care of the rest. They work separately but still fit pretty neatly together. Please give up the 215 v 19 stuff man.

-S.E.

stone wrote:

"Also for the fairness of corporate growers vs 'mom n pop' growers. This may sound odd but this could end up inadvertently protecting these small business people by giving the feds bigger fish to fry. All the while influencing more and more movements to arise around the country. By this time the bill could be amended or replaced with something better and if not then the gaining momentum around the country would give you better grounds for change on that bill alone while we all make our stand against the D.E.A. and feds. California is not in this alone help yourselves and us the rest of the states can help in return. Don't you think the corporate puppet Obama would be all over this if it ended up benefitting corporate america? Meanwhile he wants to keep the D.E.A fascist as all hell."

^^^ i wonder too what will happen about that. you know, having big money interests fighting on the fed level because a bunch of their ceo's got arrested for growing more than 99 might very well change alot.

damn thats a good point.

one of the best ive seen. still doesnt change 19 v 215.

but it does really ease my mind that positive change could come from this 19 passing.

 

[Batboy]

Another possibility is if it fails everyone will continue as we are now; More Brave, More Aware, More Organized, More out of the closet.

If we keep going and perhaps look again as California Cannabis Initiative and Jack Herrer's Initiative we can get a better Initiative on the Ballot in 2012. 2012 is a Presidential election year and more people vote then than they do in a not Presidential election year. More Democrats Vote I should say.

The Cat is out of the Bag here in California.. We have had so much press coverage and open discussion that we cannot go back.
We would be starting from a point even in Stanislaus County that folks won't be as afraid to get out and Gather Signatures as they were.

That's the sticky point either we raise the money to pay for signatures or enough people get out and gather them.

So this cycle of voting isn't the end of the road.. Consider that if Prop 19 fails it won't be by much. We might attract big money donations for the next Initiative.

So politics is politics.. We just have to have solidarity. After all More freedom doesn't hurt Businesses like Oakland Cannabis Factories but it would mean you and I can breed plants in our Greenhouses that are larger than 25 sq ft.

The is the most optimistic view of a Prop 19 failed vote and I think that it is way off base.

Prop 19 failing to pass will only serve to hurt the community's chances of passing any type of legalization measure anytime in the near future. I think that 2012 is a pipe dream.

Let's face it, most people are not well educated on the specifics of these bills and the merits of one bill versus another. All that the vast majority of the public will know is that the last legalization measure lost. period. 'CA must not want legalization. . . the potheads are not as powerful as they thought. . . there is NO solidarity. . . they were all too stoned to get off the couch and vote! The public has spoken and they don't want your weed!'

There is no way that you will attract big money to the next vote when most of that funding will need to come from disenfranchised people whose 2010 Prop 19 loss is fresh on their minds. A Prop 19 loss is a gigantic victory for the prohibitionists and they will shout from the rooftops that the public has spoken out against the evil drug. Main stream media will not cover the educated cannagraphers who want to discuss specifics and the real reasons why many in the mj community voted against 19. Any new legislation will have to fight all the same hurdles as 19, plus the stigma of 19's loss. Mark my words, if 19 loses, you will not see anything remotely close to legalization in 2012.

Prop 19 is the crack in the foundation. Passage would have far-reaching and long-standing ramifications. Even if this isn't the perfect bill, it will be the start of something wonderful. It's not going to happen overnight, but this is the catalyst for sweeping change across the country and the world.

 

[gaiusmarius]

if Chris Conrad is right, not passing 19 will not only look like a change of public opinion on cannabis but also endanger 215 and 420.

did you read this localhero?

Colleagues,

We have powerful enemies in the November election: Meg Whitman and Steve Cooley. Whitman is an avowed enemy of medical marijuana and would have veto power over all our legislation for the next multiple years. Cooley is such an incompetent attorney that he can’t even read law correctly but he thinks SB 420 does not protect patients, he thinks it mandates prison for anyone with more than a few ounces. These people are a threat to everything we have built up as a movement. And yet “reformers” are wasting energy opposing Prop 19?

Let’s get real. SB 420 — which allows collectives, ID cards, immunity from arrest and safe harbor – is not from an initiative. It was legislated so it can be modified or upended at any time, with or without Prop 19. The safe harbor quantities that People v Kelly provides could be dropped to a few grams, and gardens reduced to a couple plants and 10 square feet. Read the People v Urziceanu decision’s evaluation of Prop 215 v SB 420 to get an idea of what losing SB420 means. It’s not pretty.
At this point, a no vote on Prop 19 combined with a Whitman/Cooley victory is a no vote on SB 420, a no vote on safe harbors, a no vote on collectives, and the prohibitionists will litigate like it is a no vote on Prop 215 and a yes vote to send adults to jail for small personal amounts of marijuana. Every bit of energy we spend “debating the merits” of Prop 19 is energy that we give to the drug warriors because none of it matters at all if we lose Prop 19. We must pass it.

Here’s why: If Prop 19 passes, it guarantees that localities can license sales to patients because it allows licensed sales to anyone over age 21 (I know, it sucks for people below age 21, but let’s stay on point here). If Prop 19 passes, it guarantees that patients will be able to have at least an ounce just by virtue of being adults. It specifically lists Prop 215/ HS11362.5 and SB 420 statutes in two places in the purposes, by general reference in the purpose “6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.” and “12. Make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial, and research purposes” and by statutes as in “except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.” That would not even have been necessary because it also protects them by _not naming those statutes as being changed anywhere in the newly created statutes. (Remember the Galambos appeals court held that it was illegal to transport medical marijuana because Prop 215 did _not name HS11360 transportation_ as being changed; luckily the legislature passed SB420 to protect it.) It says in the ballot argument that themedical marijuana laws are “preserved.” That alone could be used in court to defend collectives and safe harbor if the legislature turns sour and try to change SB 420.

Without Prop 19, patients and collectives are at greater risk than with it, and if it loses it sends exactly the wrong message to the legislature, namely that Californians don’t want legal marijuana. That will be cited as a pendulum change, and that could bode disaster. Remember, we have in our midst paid agitators and provocateurs who are determined to undermine us and stop Prop 19 from being passed. They prey on your fear. They claim to be our allies, and to be helping, but they are our opponents determined to keep cannabis consumers criminals. Unfortunately, we can’t tell them from the zealots because some people with good intentions are freaked out, running in circles and screaming that the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Well, the sky might well be falling if Prop 19 loses.

Get over it, pull yourselves together and go out to register every voter you can get your hands on and drag them to the polls to vote Yes on Prop 19 and No to Whitman and Cooley on Nov 2, or better yet to vote absentee Yes on Prop 19 and No to Whitman and Cooley.

– Chris Conrad, court-qualified cannabis expert and consultant

 

[StoneElemental]

The is the most optimistic view of a Prop 19 failed vote and I think that it is way off base.

Prop 19 failing to pass will only serve to hurt the community's chances of passing any type of legalization measure anytime in the near future. I think that 2012 is a pipe dream.

Let's face it, most people are not well educated on the specifics of these bills and the merits of one bill versus another. All that the vast majority of the public will know is that the last legalization measure lost. period. 'CA must not want legalization. . . the potheads are not as powerful as they thought. . . there is NO solidarity. . . they were all too stoned to get off the couch and vote! The public has spoken and they don't want your weed!'

There is no way that you will attract big money to the next vote when most of that funding will need to come from disenfranchised people whose 2010 Prop 19 loss is fresh on their minds. A Prop 19 loss is a gigantic victory for the prohibitionists and they will shout from the rooftops that the public has spoken out against the evil drug. Main stream media will not cover the educated cannagraphers who want to discuss specifics and the real reasons why many in the mj community voted against 19. Any new legislation will have to fight all the same hurdles as 19, plus the stigma of 19's loss. Mark my words, if 19 loses, you will not see anything remotely close to legalization in 2012.

Prop 19 is the crack in the foundation. Passage would have far-reaching and long-standing ramifications. Even if this isn't the perfect bill, it will be the start of something wonderful. It's not going to happen overnight, but this is the catalyst for sweeping change across the country and the world.