ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[gaiusmarius]

Which as a parent I TOTALLY support. You should not be smoking in the presence of child wether it is cannabis or tobacco EVER!!!!!

How can ANY parent not agree with this is beyond me.

Is it that hard to walk outside for a smoke?

going outside for a smoke will be illegal under this law, won't it?

i think a smoking room will do it though.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

we could also pool our money together and vote on something really simple and easy to defend by even the most inept public defender:

No person shall be persecuted, penalized, fined, incarcerated, or limited by law to consume, possess, cultivate, or sell cannabis in the state of california

very simple. lets do it.

It's been said before. PIPE DREAM.

Prop 19 is a reality. Full legalization with zero regulation or taxation is a pipe dream.

 

[localhero]

it can be a reality, the makers of 19 pooled their money together to make a law that benefitted them.

why cant we do the same? making change is something we can do ourselves, we dont have to let others decide the terms of our lives.

 

[Hydrosun]

My total newb setup knocked out 3.5 oz with 500w of CFL in four square feet of space.

So you can have 6x of that for 24' and get 21oz every time, but that doesn't leave veg room.

Now you are on .75oz per week per 2sq' or 9.375oz per week in 25sq' or 93.75oz per week in 250sq' 5.75lbs per week in 250sq.

I wonder if these numbers are true why aren't the warehouses using CFL. like I said your newb and current numbers are impressive, I just can't understand why the guys using 100sq' tents don't get your per foot numbers?

 

[Hydrosun]

My parents were the same way with tobacco.

Have you ever heard of the research into 2nd hand smoke? Most of the research has been with tobacco but what are the LONG TERM effects on children from 2nd hand cannabis smoke? Who nose?

Your alcohol comparison does not hold water, how does a child inhale a beer when I drink it?

I am seeing it as a 2nd hand smoke issue, you are trying to frame it as a moral issue for parents not to do something immoral in front of their children.

And yes, you can go outside for a walk. If you can't make the effort to not smoke in front of them, then you suck at being a parent and need to quit recreactional smoking.

We don't really disagree, but have you seen the studies on second hand MJ! Shockingly there is ZERO damage to the body of the 2nd hand recipient. Just as beer causes ZERO damage to the 2nd hand recipient.

I am just saying that these are tough issues that all parents need to tackle. Do you drink beer at the pizza joint in front of your kid? Do you smoke a joint in front of your kid in your own home? Do you drive home from the pizza joint with the kid in the car after you have had 1 - x beers? Do you smoke you cigs in the car with you kids there?

All of those are tough calls. I hope everyone does the best they can with them, and as you said your parents smoked cigs in front of you and you would not do the same.

If the criteria of sucking at being a parent equaled smoking in front of your kids, than both you and my parents failed as parents. I'm all for you having that judgement on them, but I don't want the state to prosecute them because the smoked in front of us.

Similarly I don't want the state of CA to prosecute adults who chose to smoke in front of children or drink beer in front of them. Because if MJ in front of kids needs to be prosecuted so does beer and cigs in front of kids.

Just because I don't approve of some behavior doesn't mean I want the PIGS to imprison the people behaving badly.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

not sure about the cannabis testing for employment, can easily see that still being done.

(c) No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301 of this Act. Provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected.

I'd definitely be curious to see how this would work out when an employer inevitably discriminates based on a drug test.

 

[JJScorpio]

JJ- if you didnt have me on ignore, you would have seen i already answered that:

Your answer makes no sense. If you grow in 25 sg ft, and abide by the law you won't have to worry about being arrested. And if you're smoking in the same room as your children you need your ass kicked for subjecting them to second hand smoke. If this is the best arg you got, it isn't much.

Just admit you're a commercial grower and you don't want people growing their own. At least then your argument would be honest.

This laws a no brainer. Even if someone doesn't want to grow their own, they can still smoke legally. They still may buy from you if your weed is any good. I know I wouldn't buy from the legal people if someone I knew had bomb ass bud.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

So you can have 6x of that for 24' and get 21oz every time, but that doesn't leave veg room.

Now you are on .75oz per week per 2sq' or 9.375oz per week in 25sq' or 93.75oz per week in 250sq' 5.75lbs per week in 250sq.

I wonder if these numbers are true why aren't the warehouses using CFL. like I said your newb and current numbers are impressive, I just can't understand why the guys using 100sq' tents don't get your per foot numbers?

Because the size of your grow has absolutely nothing to do with the efficiency of your grow.

 

[igrowone]

I wonder if these numbers are true why aren't the warehouses using CFL. like I said your newb and current numbers are impressive, I just can't understand why the guys using 100sq' tents don't get your per foot numbers?

to lighten the mood for a moment, i can vouch for good results with cfl's, 1/2g watt even for micro grows(78w)
to tell you the truth, i'm wondering why there hasn't been an industrial 'trial' of cfl's on the large scale
they have some advantages when you use them in individual grow chambers, and the cost structure is quite nice

 

[Hydrosun]

Because the size of your grow has absolutely nothing to do with the efficiency of your grow.

I guess I need to throw out all those economics books about economies of scale.

Just calling BS when I see it grams per day per square foot is the measure of efficiency. If someone can get a great number in 2sq' then there is NO physical reason the same couldn't be EXCEEDED on a larger scale.

If it could not be EXCEEDED then an economic actor could simple increase the number of small growing units.

So either you can achieve .6grms per square foot per day or you can not; and if you can achieve that number with 2sq' than you can equal or exceed the number with more grow space.

Some people like to talk about pipe dreams and question what can be. I'll admit I am one of those and the proponents of huge numbers per square foot never seem to explain how their wonderful results aren't what is seen by many and the micro success isn't scaled.

 

[dagnabit]

the problem is the prohibition supporters have been convinced somehow that prohibition is equal to deregulation.
this could not be further from the truth.

the law could not get any more restrictive then right now! marijuana is illegal right now at a state level.
this "regulation" in all reality is deregulation.
but this back and forth is senseless.
ive spent soooo much time fighting against other prohibition supporters in my life.
dea,fbi,atf,irs,ondcp,dnc,rnc,chp, ect..ect..ect...
only to see other "heads" from this site cozy up to them and sing cumbaya like old friends...

good job guys!

 

[igrowone]

there seems to be much confusion on prop 19's consequences with minors
i am not a lawyer, but this my simplistic understanding of law in general(in the USA)
generally, an activity is lawful unless there is a law against it
otherwise, you have the presumption of everything being potentially illegal
now prop 19 has made MJ legal, but there are some exceptions
so MJ is legal in your home, with some exceptions
one exception is it illegal to consume MJ in the presence of a minor
but if you are not in the presence of a minor, it is legal because there is no explicit exception to it

 

[Frozenguy]

Wake me up when there is a prop that gets it right.

I'm tired of sending cannabis users to prison, prop19 does NOT stop this.

Prop19 puts users/growers away in prison longer then rapists, vehicular manslaughterists, armed burglars, armed home invaders ect.


Prop19 will not help California. California does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. Sacramento has its own massive spending problem and even worse money management. Giving an alcoholic more booze will only further his/her disease.

And I dont care who is ok with 25sqft. I am not. I dont care how much you smoke. I am an individual and I among others want to protect our freedoms.

BTW, patients can currently legally get their medications. Prop19 will not help them get more meds, and wont help them travel with meds either. It will only make them cheaper (probably, not even a guarantee).

I am not a commercial grower. I was once before, but even if I was now, legalization wouldn't phase me other then the concerns I'm voicing. Legalization brings in real competition, which brings in premium markets which I would of been a part of. Premium markets always carry a premium price.

Its not about what one can grow in a given space, because one is not all. Everyone is different. Thats why we were given freedoms and liberties. Take a look at my second sig line.

I cannot vote for a bill that imprisons people for a "crime" in which both parties benefit, both parties agreed to said terms of the event, and no party can claim injury. WTF kind of crime is that? Let alone one that warrants seven years in prison.

 

[gaiusmarius]

well i have finally read the whole thing. damn it's hard not to see it as a step forward, even if not perfect. as JJS keeps vehemently stating, more people will benefit then not from this prop 19.

anyway made some notes on the worst stuff i could find. but i freely admit there is plenty of goodies in there too. but here are the things that are left that still are less then perfect and worrying.


notes:

no change with piss tests at work because:

2.**** This Act is not intended to affect the application or enforcement of the following state laws relating to public health and safety or protection of children and others: Health and Safety Code sections 11357 [relating to possession on school grounds]; 11361 [relating to minors as amended herein]; 11379.6 [relating to chemical production]; 11532 [relating to loitering to commit a crime or acts not authorized by law]; Vehicle Code section 23152 [relating to driving while under the influence]; Penal Code section 272 [relating to contributing to the delinquency of a minor]; nor any law prohibiting use of controlled substances in the workplace or by specific persons whose jobs involve public safety.

Section 3: Lawful Activities
Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:
Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls
(a)**** Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i)**** Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.

interpretation by norml:
If you’re 21 or older, you can have an ounce of weed on you, out in public, and share it with your 21 and older friends.
this seems wrong as the last bit states:
(i)**** Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.

me:solely for that individuals personal consumption, so you can't share it with your 21 year or older friends.

(ii)*** Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property.* Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.

so not every person can grow 25 sq feet, every residence etc can have 1 garden of 25sq feet.

(f)**** safe and secure transportation of cannabis from a licensed premises for cultivation or processing, to a licensed premises for sale or on-premises consumption of cannabis;
(g)**** prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;

Norml says:
A city can punish you for getting cannabis illegally. *You can grow your own or you can buy it from a licensed store. *You and your friends can share what you grow, up to an ounce each.

me: but where does he get the you and your friends can share up to an ounce?

(l)**** such larger amounts as the local authority deems appropriate and proper under local circumstances, than those established under section 11300(a) for personal possession and cultivation, or under this section for commercial cultivation, processing, transportation and sale by persons authorized to do so under this section;

how the hell does one equate the above paragraph to normls take bellow: and maybe they decide you can buy or sell more then an ounce at a time hooray? that makes it sound like people can go around buy and selling ounces, while so far not even sharing is allowed.

Norml's take: A city might decide you are allowed to grow more than a 5′x5′ garden and possess more than an ounce for personal consumption. *And maybe they decide you can buy and sell more than an ounce at a time. *Hooray!

this next bit clearly tells you that money generated by this new law will also be used to enforce the new rules

(m)** any other appropriate controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare.
Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees
(a)**** Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation:* administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.

next we have another mention of employee pee tests being still ok when job performance is effected. hopefully this will mean at least some people will no longer be tested for cannabis

(c)**** No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301 of this Act.* Provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected.

next up the thing about residence and only 1 garden even if you have 5 adults in 1 residence, but like the norml guy says, it's better then having no garden. and if it's not about lots of strains and you just want to produce bud en mass 25sq feet is plenty if your a half way decent grower. it's just the mother plants that would have to be limited severely.

(v)**** “residence” means a dwelling or structure, whether permanent or temporary, on private or public property, intended for occupation by a person or persons for residential purposes, and includes that portion of any structure intended for both commercial and residential purposes.
Since “residence” could have more than one occupant, but each “residence” only gets one 5′x5′ garden, this is a minor issue in a multi-roommate situation. *But even sharing the garden, it is more garden than they are allowed to grow now.

 

[Kwazee Wabbit]

Commercial growers simply don't understand that the market for cannabis will skyrocket if 19 passes. The best weed will always demand top dollar. If you currently grow and sell schwag you might be nervous about 19. Not everyone wants to grow or they don't know how. Many don't want to learn. Many couldn't grow if they tried. Look at the problems members here have trying to grow weed. Most people would fail and give up. The commercial growers don't realize a good thing when it's staring them right in the face. Consider the tourism benefits you will have. You will probably have to expand your ops. Think of the freedom you will have to travel and operate when millions of your fellow stoners are legal. Leo will be so overwhelmed he will simply ignore cannabis and start doing his real job of arresting criminals. Get rid of your paranoia and see reality, not just what some insecure sellers are telling you. Get a pair and chart your future! Start thinking for yourself!

 

[Frozenguy]

Commercial growers simply don't understand that the market for cannabis will skyrocket if 19 passes. The best weed will always demand top dollar. If you currently grow and sell schwag you might be nervous about 19. Not everyone wants to grow or they don't know how. Many don't want to learn. Many couldn't grow if they tried. Look at the problems members here have trying to grow weed. Most people would fail and give up. The commercial growers don't realize a good thing when it's staring them right in the face. Consider the tourism benefits you will have. You will probably have to expand your ops. Think of the freedom you will have to travel and operate when millions of your fellow stoners are legal. Leo will be so overwhelmed he will simply ignore cannabis and start doing his real job of arresting criminals. Get rid of your paranoia and see reality, not just what some insecure sellers are telling you. Get a pair and chart your future! Start thinking for yourself!

I agree with the concept of this post, that legalization itself (not considering the language of any arbitrary prop) WILL benefit commercial growers.

To elaborate with my own $0.02, It will create real markets, everywhere that there is to be one. Right now, there may be a "market" to be found, but its not like what it can be.

Think Sauza : Don Julio, at safeway.

Also, people will come to california to smoke.
The world is watching. When it legalizes, people are going to be flooding in here to buy pure California Cannabis and drive up and down our coasts, see our redwood forests, snowboard/hike our mountains.. Its going to get packed which is good for business (not so great for residence though... ) All in all, I think the selfish commercial growers dont have much of a business sense. There is money to be made in any situation. There are always people making money.

 

[Hammerhead]

this plant was grown under 100w 12/12 from seed. If people cant do this then there is no hope for them. I cant say this is going to be really good cannabis but for 100w and from what I see and my experience well worth the effort considering the amount of effort I put into it.

 

[anomolies]

Section 3: Lawful Activities
Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:
Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls
(a)**** Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i)**** Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.

ii)*** Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel.

These two parts are in disagreement. How can you possibly grow in 25 ft square of space and yield / possess less than 1 ounce? It is illegal to posses more than 1 ounce? What is the penalty for doing so?

Also, licensed businesses can grow as much as they want? How much are the license fees going to cost and who is going to set them? Are the license fees going to be the same for all businesses, or depend on size?

I'm all for legalization, but putting a law that has room for misinterpretation into effect will lead to regulations that will fuck everyone over.

For me, Prop 19 leaves a lot of unanswered questions. If this passes, city administrations will be the ones setting forth new cannabis regulations depending on how they interpret this law.

Richard Lee wrote this by himself? It's horrible. This bill is just too vaguely worded to my liking.

 

[Frozenguy]

These two parts are in disagreement. How can you possibly grow in 25 ft square of space and yield / possess less than 1 ounce? It is illegal to posses more than 1 ounce? What is the penalty for doing so?

Also, licensed businesses can grow as much as they want? How much are the license fees going to cost and who is going to set them? Are the license fees going to be the same for all businesses, or depend on size?

I'm all for legalization, but putting a law that has room for misinterpretation into effect will lead to regulations that will fuck everyone over.

Its going to be a mess.

As for the bold, you can keep the results of your harvest (anything over an ounce) but it MUST be kept within the 25sqft of your grow. If not you are participating in illegal criminal activity.

 

[igrowone]

These two parts are in disagreement. How can you possibly grow in 25 ft square of space and yield / possess less than 1 ounce? It is illegal to posses more than 1 ounce? What is the penalty for doing so?

Also, licensed businesses can grow as much as they want? How much are the license fees going to cost and who is going to set them? Are the license fees going to be the same for all businesses, or depend on size?

I'm all for legalization, but putting a law that has room for misinterpretation into effect will lead to regulations that will fuck everyone over.

with respect to the 1 oz limit, this is the amount you may have on your person, this is part of 11300a
11300a also has language for a growing area which is further qualified in 113004

(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a)

this differentiates what you can have on your person and in your grow area