Turning 4 1k Lights on at once @ 220 volt risky to do

[gus738]

ok so lets assume the #8 only handles 40 safely even then 80% of 40 is 32 amps right? now to figure out how much or how many amps im going to run on average or roughly it would give me an ideal if im going to even get remotely close to safe or dangerous spot .

also its been about half or so a day since he hasnt responded to me so im assuming he ditch any possible future deals with me just for this hmm wow hes my caregiver ....

 

[what the]

your fuse has to be bigger than 20A because a 600W draws 3A and a 1000W draws 5A so youre @ 5x4A=20A

the 1,5mm cable is just for maximum of 16A and about 3600watts.


you will need a fuse which is greater than 20A (25A) will be fine and get some 2,5mm or even 4mm cable to the fuse also the timer isnt strong enough (if you want to power all 4 at same time) you need to use a relais.

1000watt draws over 8 amp nominal, 120V



Also you can use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit. The NEC allows this. 20 amp receptacles allow both a 15 and 20 amp prong configuration, but otherwise can handle the same load.

 

[SumDumGuy]

1000watt draws over 8 amp nominal, 120V



Also you can use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit. The NEC allows this. 20 amp receptacles allow both a 15 and 20 amp prong configuration, but otherwise can handle the same load.

I have been a personal witness to receptacle meltdown due to this misconfiguration. She was home and and saw smoke coming out the outlet. I manually flipped all the breakers as a precaution and at the end it was a 15A outlet on a 20A breaker.

Nonetheless you can't argue the NEC handbook but damn.

 

[what the]

Likely due to an arc fault between the prong and the contacts in the receptacle rather than undersized conductors inside the receptacle.

 

[gus738]

hey guys well i went to the hydro store with same guy was helping me in the past, and he as well said that the way my electricity is set up wrong .


and guess what my caregiver the guy who claims to be a pro electrician has not responded so hes ignoring me.

at this point i gotta think that im on my own cuz hes probably not gonna show up.

and just based on you guys comments and my local hydro guy comments has put me

very very unsecured.

so to do the electricity properly what should i do at this point? prefer if i dont want to rewire the 12/2 because i put up my drywall and insulation

so is it easier to replace breakers or main wires from the main panel to sub panel aceess... or what can i do so im safely do it right

also is their a electricity section?

 

[ganjaments]

ez solution is this: Replace your 50a breaker with 40a. For any circuit that has 15a outlets on it, replace that breaker with 15a. The remaining outlets should be 20a, so you can leave the 20a breakers for those. In this scenario, you're only running your lights at 120v, so you **should** hopefully be able to put two 1k lights on one 20a breaker.

if you want 240v lights, you need to replace two of the 20a breakers, with one double pole (240v) 20a breaker. You should be able to run close to 4000w on one double pole 20a breaker. You also need 240v outlets in this case.

Disclaimer: If I were you, I'd do the above, and start rocking out. In the meantime, I'd ask a master electrician about the following and make changes on the fly if needed..

One thing that I noticed that may or may not be important is that in your subpanel, your neutral (white) wires and ground wires are all going to the same bus bar. This is only allowed in the main panel. For a subpanel, the ground must have a busbar that is isolated from the neutral, and bonded to your box (The grounding bars are sold seperately, i have no idea why). ideally, you need to go to where you got your subpanel, and buy a grounding bar of sufficient size that fits your sub panel. If it seems like you have to remove the subpanel to attach it, you can go ahead and use self taping screws from the inside. This isn't allowed in code ( you techincally can't alter the subpanel in any way, including drilling extra holes), but it should be better than what you have now.

I'm not experienced enough to tell you why having a seperate ground is nececary in a subpanel, but if you ever want to add AFCI's for extra safety, it is a nececity to have the ground isolated from the neutral.

 

[what the]

You definitely want to split the grounds and neutrals as written above.
There is also a screw in the neutral bus that grounds the housing. You need to remove it. You likely need a ground rod to serve the sub-panel as well.

There should be a disconnect on that panel also. A main breaker for the sub-panel. You'll need a bigger panel for that. You use a typical 220V breaker rated for the ampacity of the panel. You don't attach the mains directly to the bus bars but into the breaker. It works in the reverse direction of the individual breakers. Power goes into the breaker, passes through it and into the bus bar.
I'd go get a larger load center and wire it with a disconnect. Small panels are really cheap <$30

Also, don't hire this "electrician" again.

 

[gus738]

hey guys im back

so i can i eventually upgrade to 240 without chaning the 12/2 wire inside the drywall? just by replacing the breakers from the sub panel or the main panel? the outlets would be the 240 type

If you want to change some of your outlets to 240v, you don't have to replace the yellow wire, you just need to replace the breakers and the outlets. You could do this at a later time without tearing into your walls.

so ur saying even though from main panel 50a goes to 6 20amp single breaker is not enough or right?

if so in the sub panel do i grab 2 single 20a take em out and put a double pole 20a?

so if i put (4) 1k hps for flower and 1 mh for veg can i plug all safely in different outlet plugs?

. In this scenario, you're only running your lights at 120v, so you **should** hopefully be able to put two 1k lights on one 20a breaker.

by doing this i just drop the load of amp by half? also why is a double pole 20 that can hold 4k of watts while a single pole 20a only holds how much?

if you want 240v lights, you need to replace two of the 20a breakers, with one double pole (240v) 20a breaker. You should be able to run close to 4000w on one double pole 20a breaker. You also need 240v outlets in this case.

i noticed i can do extra methods to be safe but i want to start so i want to be as safe as possible and do upgrades in say every 2 weeks etc. for now flower is far so gives me time to upgrade electrical if nessary.

Disclaimer: If I were you, I'd do the above, and start rocking out. In the meantime, I'd ask a master electrician about the following and make changes on the fly if needed..

One thing that I noticed that may or may not be important is that in your subpanel, your neutral (white) wires and ground wires are all going to the same bus bar. This is only allowed in the main panel.

 

[Absolut]

There is also a screw in the neutral bus that grounds the housing. You need to remove it. You likely need a ground rod to serve the sub-panel as well.

If I remove the screw in the neutral bus, can I just ground the sub-panel back to the main/service panel?

Putting a new ground rod isn't really feasible in my situation.

 

[isit420now]

Your ground and neutral MUST be separated. You could kill yourself. Seriously. If the subpanel is in the same building as the main no separate ground rod required.

 

[ganjaments]

so i can i eventually upgrade to 240 without chaning the 12/2 wire inside the drywall? just by replacing the breakers from the sub panel or the main panel? the outlets would be the 240 type

Correct.

If you want to change some of your outlets to 240v, you don't have to replace the yellow wire, you just need to replace the breakers and the outlets. You could do this at a later time without tearing into your walls.

so ur saying even though from main panel 50a goes to 6 20amp single breaker is not enough or right?

if so in the sub panel do i grab 2 single 20a take em out and put a double pole 20a?

so if i put (4) 1k hps for flower and 1 mh for veg can i plug all safely in different outlet plugs?

Single breakers = 120v. Double breakers = 240v.

If you want 5k in lights @ 240v, you're going to need 2 double-pole breakers. You would have to remove 4 20a breakers to do this. This still leaves two 20a 120v circuits for your accessories which should be plenty.

You're already running @ 120v, so this boils down to weather or not you want to upgrade to 240v. It is always recommended because it is safer and slightly more efficient than 120v.

In this scenario, you're only running your lights at 120v, so you **should** hopefully be able to put two 1k lights on one 20a breaker.....if you want 240v lights, you need to replace two of the 20a breakers, with one double pole (240v) 20a breaker. You should be able to run close to 4000w on one double pole 20a breaker. You also need 240v outlets in this case.

by doing this i just drop the load of amp by half? also why is a double pole 20 that can hold 4k of watts while a single pole 20a only holds how much?

Every grower should know Watt' Law:

Watts = Amps x Voltage.

20a @ 120v = 2400w
20a @ 240v = 4800w


Also, 2k watts on one 120v breaker (or 4k watts on one 240v breaker) is the absolute MAXIMUM you could safely run. That's 80% of the rated capacity of the wire and breaker, and you NEVER go over this.

noticed i can do extra methods to be safe but i want to start so i want to be as safe as possible and do upgrades in say every 2 weeks etc. for now flower is far so gives me time to upgrade electrical if nessary.

We all know what it's like to want to get rolling, but safety must always come first. That said, your current setup is probably decently safe IF you contact an electrician who can explain what kind of risks you're taking by not having an ground isolated from the neutral in your subpanel. I'm not an electrician, and I don't know how unsafe this is. Other posters suggest that it is pretty serious. However if, after you talk to him, you feel safe without then just go for it. Just make sure to get it all sorted out asap or after your first round or whatever. (It should be a pretty quick fix, definitely less than 1 hour.)

 

[what the]

That said, your current setup is probably decently safe IF you contact an electrician who can explain what kind of risks you're taking by not having an ground isolated from the neutral in your subpanel. I'm not an electrician, and I don't know how unsafe this is. Other posters suggest that it is pretty serious.

http://masterslic.tripod.com/FAQ-2/18.html

This is really fast. Pretty much all panels are designed so you are able to separate the grounds from the neutrals. Go to Home Depot and ask the guy for the parts you need to do this. They will have everything you need assuming you have a somewhat standard brand panel.

 

[gus738]

so i have 2 issues then?, one is separating neutral from ground and the other im trying to understand this,

on the sub panel i have (6) 20 amp single breakers why did my guy just put 6 20's amps single pole if all i need is 2 sets double pole 20amp?

do i just swap on the subpanel the 20a breakers with dp? the wire between the outlets is 12/2 does it still run safe?

and other thing is, if i have a total of 5 1k bulbs thats 50amps but at 80% its even less capacity?

so if its running non stop do i need to plug each 1k to an individual outlet ? or by plunging different things on different outlets doesn't solve things?

 

[what the]

and other thing is, if i have a total of 5 1k bulbs thats 50amps but at 80% its even less capacity?

I don't understand the question. You don't want to exceed 80% the amperage rating on the wire/breaker. So for a 20A breaker you don't load it over 16 amp. This has nothing to do with efficiency. Figure 1100 watts for each 1000W light and divide by the volts. Add up what you will connect to the circuit and it must total less than 16 amps for each 20 amp circuit.

You can put in 2-pole breakers and use the neutrals as hot conductors. Generally electricians wrap them with black tape in the box so it is immediately clear what they are. Good practice. In such case you will have no neutrals unless you also have 120V circuits in the panel.

 

[what the]

220V does not have neutrals. This isn't exactly how it works but an easy way to think about how it works practically:


I think of a 120V line as pushing only. Imagine a line of electrons getting pushed at one end. They get to the end of the circuit and fall off into the neutral.
Now with 220V you are pushing on one end and pulling on the other, that's why you need two wires going into the bus bars. As you can see the "pulling" side replaces the neutral and not only gives the electrons somewhere to go but is actually pulling them in. This doubles the voltage.

Ok now fellow geeks, I know this isn't exactly how it works but the analogy is useful in practical applications.

 

[gus738]

im going to have 1k mh for veg running 18 maybe 24 hrs. im also gonna get another 4 more 1k hps for flower phase which are only 12/12 of course. all these total (5) 1k together will be 50 amps maybe more.

im concern about how is it possible to run all these lights at same time?

and does it matter or make a difference if i plug each hid unit (bulb/ballast) on each other outlets?

also the main panel is in the same room as the sub panel less then 4ft across as far as service wire length i'd say less then 10ft.

can you re read last page about the breakers or maybe i didnt make sense

oh and from the main panel the 50 is a dp? sub panel is rated at 240 or 250 but my setup is 120 based on the yellow 12/2 wire running from the outlet receptacles to sub panel and the service wire from main panel to sub panel was 4 wires i believe

 

[what the]

im going to have 1k mh for veg running 18 maybe 24 hrs. im also gonna get another 4 more 1k hps for flower phase which are only 12/12 of course. all these total (5) 1k together will be 50 amps maybe more.

im concern about how is it possible to run all these lights at same time?

and does it matter or make a difference if i plug each hid unit (bulb/ballast) on each other outlets?

also the main panel is in the same room as the sub panel less then 4ft across as far as service wire length i'd say less then 10ft.

can you re read last page about the breakers or maybe i didnt make sense

I think you should have someone else do your wiring. I'm absolutely not saying that in a dick-like manner. It seems electricity isn't your thing.

All those lights will draw 25 amps at 220V

Here, your best bet is to go to a hardware store get a copy of this book
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=wiring+simplified&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=4657483697&ref=pd_sl_69l7s1q0h9_e
read it all the way through and come back with questions.

It's a little difficult to walk through the wiring in a couple posts.

 

[gus738]

what the remember im on 120v currently so its going to be more then 25 amps.. also simple question, even though im running 12/2 yellow wire from ouetlet to sub panel can i still put a 240v outlet and a double pole 20a without replacing the 12/2 yellow wire? is it safe? the cost will it be small misc on the breaker and the outlet?;

i want to start and go on the fly with things

All those lights will draw 25 amps at 220V

so ur saying i just swap on the subpanel the 20a single breakers with dp? if so the wire between the sub panel and the outlets is 12/2 yellow wire does it still run safe?

and other thing is, if i have a total of 5 1k non stop and my main breaker thats is 50amps but at 80% will it handle all that i require because i feel its even less capacity then needed?
so if its running non stop do i need to plug each 1k to an individual outlet ?
or if by plunging different things on different outlets doesn't solve issues?

 

[dtfsux]

what the remember im on 120v currently so its going to be more then 25 amps.. also simple question, even though im running 12/2 yellow wire from ouetlet to sub panel can i still put a 240v outlet and a double pole 20a without replacing the 12/2 yellow wire? is it safe? the cost will it be small misc on the breaker and the outlet?;

i want to start and go on the fly with things

are you ever actually going to grow anything????


To answer your question, yes. For someone competent, changing from 120 to 240 is easy. Just pop in a new DP breaker and make the necessary changes at the panel and the outlet.



I suggest you just start growing and get a little time under your belt. Not trying to be rude but electricity is clearly not your thing

 

[gus738]

i already got seedlings rooted and a 2 clones. using 40w 6500k t8 or t12 48"

2 6500k 48" 40w philips

2 4100k 48" 40w unkown maybe philips. so that is going in the meantime and i take clones outside for sun and sunset back to lights for all day til i repeat cycle.

and yes i know that u guys said remove 2 single 20 amp breakers on sub panel.

that i get ... now the 12/2 is ok even though i would be putting a dp 20a?