M
mSeTxOiNcEaRn
Yeah a lot of wrong information being spread around by a lot of people who havent even read the bill.
Fuggin sad.
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CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?
- Thread starter Sam_Skunkman
- Start date
Yeah a lot of wrong information being spread around by a lot of people who havent even read the bill.
Fuggin sad.
Yes.........
Can you give any reasoning on why you are advocating people to vote no?
M
mSeTxOiNcEaRn
http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/initiatives/pdfs/i821_initiative_09-0024_amdt_1-s.pdf
Heres the bill again, read it before you type anything else.
Heres the bill again, read it before you type anything else.
how many do you think will?
section 1103 is reason enough to vote yes!
this type of language!!!
and the findings section!
to have that written into the law?!?!?!?
I've read it several times Thank You! I'm happy with the Med Laws we have now.The Bill is flawed in so many ways. Have you even read it yet? I have a few buddies that are 19 and 20 years old who i toke with on occasion and if this law passes i can go to jail for passing them a joint. No Thanks!
Vote No!
Sounds like that will happen regardless of this bill, correct?
I'm so disgusted with all this. The selfishness, the greed, the ignorance, the lack of compassion (funny how that word "compassion" is used with the medical model), the lack of intelligence. The next time I see a busted thread here and one of the naysayers posts a "I'm sorry", I am going to go ballistic on them cause they ain't really sorry. They are full of shit. Its "US" vs "them". US calling an end to this fukn war and THEM siding with 5-0 and continuing the mayhem. Vote how you want. Vote the same the DEA is gonna vote. Vote NO. Keep their budget high so they could bust the black market (You know, the ones voting no). Vote NO, cause YOU are a selfish fuk and benefit from the medical model, VOTE NO ...ONE DAY YOU WILL WISH YO ASS VOTED YES...
No! With our current laws you will not go to jail for passing a joint to a 20 year old. With this new BILL you will get 6 months in the County Jail and a Fine!. Once again!..No Thanks!
VOTE NO!
More ignorance.......... That's only if that is your first offense...
Marijuana – Charge & Penalties
The penalty/sentence for simple possession of marijuana is typically a fine of $100. There is no risk of jail time for a first offense. (HOW MANY OF YOU IC'rs ARE PAST THE 1st OFFENSE)
*****************
Possession of more than one ounce of marijuana for personal use is a misdemeanor charge that can result in up to 6 months in jail, $500 in fines, and probation, if you are found guilty.
*****************
If you are caught and charged with actually selling marijuana (as opposed to suspicion/intent to sell) you may be facing up to 4 years in state prison.
Ref: California Sale of Marijuana Laws (HS 11360)
*****************
Possession with intent to sell marijuana is a felony, regardless of how much marijuana you actually possessed. The prosecution may try to prove you had intent to sell the marijuana because you had things like a scale, baggies, or large amounts of cash.
If you are found guilty of this offense you may be facing up to 3 years in state prison.
Ref: Possession with Intent to Sell Marijuana Laws (HS 11359)
***************
Unfortunately, California Vehicle Code 13202.5 suspends driving privileges to people under twenty-one (21) years old who have been convicted of a marijuana crime.
So that 20 year old you passed the joint to, just lost his driver license for one year.. Hope its your first, cause if not YOUR GOING TO JAIL!
I see you are quoting Jack Herrer in your sig. Well let me educate you. Jack was against this BILL and he spoke out publicly against it before he passed away and he was surely gonna vote no on it. That is a fact!. Shame on you for calling Jack a selfish fuk!. He was a very wise man and so is Dennis Peron who is also voteing No. LOL. You got some nerve calling these folks selfish fuks! Once again. No Thanks!
P.s... If Jack were alive today would you be calling him a selfish fuk for voteing no!.. I think not you hypocrite!
VOTE NO!
This is why Jack Herrer and Dennis Peron are against this BILL as I am!. Read it and educate yourself!........
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
im not voting on a bill just because someone else is. Think for yourself. Don't pass joints to under age people. You basically saying you would rather toke with my underage friends then keep anyone out of jail. My happiness is more important then there freedom. If I told you Sam the Skunkman is voting yes as well as Tom Hill does that make you think any different. Just because Jack rest his soul was voting no means nothing to me as I want to see Cannabis move in the right direction and that's legalization and regulation
I suspect many growers who oppose Tc2010 are more worried about their pocketbook then their 800,000 plus brothers arrested each year. I could be wrong and I know that is not the reason for every grower that opposes Tc2010, but I think that if Tc2010 loses by a few hundred thousand votes or less then growers who opposed it may have made the difference.
Weird to think of the coalition that some growers will join fighting Tc2010, Cops, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association. Anyone that thinks helping these bastards defeat Tc2010 is a good thing, maybe needs to rethink their opinion.
-SamS
Read the post above yours on why we are voting no. I think you may have missed it! They make sense dont they?
No there is no good resone to shut down this bill. We have been talking about his all day and I dont wan to get into it again. Please read this thread and all of the points you speak of are talked about. I can not think of any resone to let out sisters,brothers,fathers,our kids. To be incarcerated for cannabis.
It's very late here so im off to bed
It's very late here so im off to bed
Jack was a wise man and I respect what he has done for the movement but I politely disagree with him on this specific issue. I do not have to be lock, step and toe with him on all aspects or do I? As for ole Denny, I use to party with him in Oakland a very long time ago. Another huge leader in the game. Seen a couple of video streams of him protesting the bill and he semed incoherent and his fellow speaker was mixing the prop 19 bill with a bill that got stalled in congress so I think there maybe a little bit of misinformation in that camp. Not to say the guy did that intentionally but he did mix bills. I definitely respect Peron but I part with him on this issue too..
OH NO!!! That tactic does not work with me. That's called leading misrepresentation.
If you are profiting from the MMJ model, and do do want to share the profit and/or medication with others outside the MMJ model then vote no (ON PROP 19). I didn't call out Peron or Jack (Jack and Peron issues with the bill differs from my statement) I called out selfish fuks that do disagree with the bill for the reasons I specified.
Do not put words in my mouth that insult some of our community greatest. Nice trick but that shit is for kids.
OH NO!!! That tactic does not work with me. That's called leading misrepresentation.
That statement means:
If you are profiting from the MMJ model, and do do want to share the profit and/or medication with others outside the MMJ model then vote no (ON PROP 19). I didn't call out Peron or Jack (Jack and Peron issues with the bill differs from my statement) I called out selfish fuks that do disagree with the bill for the reasons I specified.
Do not put words in my mouth that insult some of our community greatest. Nice trick but that shit is for kids.
M
mSeTxOiNcEaRn
"thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
I dont give a fuk if weed is 500 dollars an ounce aint going to start smoking crack, this is some reffer madness like bullshit.
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages."
Thats bullshit too, restrictions are mesured by sq ft. and not by weight.
"These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
People get locked up for one fucking plant RIGH NOW!! FUCK THIS
TOO!
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
And you really think thats actually going to happen? People get let go on an infraction charge now for posssession up to an oz, the court doesnt have the resourses or time to put adults in jail for six months for smoking a joint, possession for under an oz can get you six months in jail now. As of now it is illegal for them to have it 18 or 21.
Plus i dont want people getting my 10 year old high!!! do you??? Thats the purpose of this lenguage, to shut all the conservatives up so this actually has a chance to pass.
Goodnite. Maybe you should read this again and seriously think about what Jack and Dennis are saying. Sleep on it.
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
