8 Historic Symbols That Mean The Opposite of What You Think

[arcticsun]

hehe good 1



The royal lines of the Kings of Haalogaland is documented by the way, you cant belittle this culture nor its importance.

The Norman Line


Gorr, settled in the Lofoten Islands
Heiti
Sveithi, The Sea King
Halfdan, the Old
Ivar, Earl of the Uplands
Eyestein Glumru, "The Noisy" d 870
Malahulcius and Reginald, Earl of More


Malahulcius son is Hugh De Cavalcamp, Lord of Cavalcamp, near Dieppe, France
Hugh DeCavalcamp's son is Ralph De Tonei I

Reginald, Earl of More's son is Rollo Duke of Normandy

 

[PatInTheHat]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18606_8-historic-symbols-that-mean-opposite-what-you-think.html

 

[makedadproud]

This won't contribute much to the convo, but I had to say something.

My family name comes from England, before that it came from Normandy (around 1000AD) and apparently The Normans came from Scandinavia (Norman deriving from North Man). My younger brother has been doing a history of the lost tribes of Israel and believes that most Scandinavian cultures came from one of the Tribes of Israel.

No, I have no proof or evidence. The only thing I know my brother used was a book by Herodotus. This is what I can remember and you guys can tear it apart how ever you wish: Israel had a treaty with surrounding lands (for the most part) during their Golden Age (1200BC to ~800BC). The name of this empire has been called Phoenician. They were some of the best mariners on the planet and there is empirical evidence that it was the Phoenicians that invented the compass. They ruled the Mediterranean Sea and controlled the Straights of Gibraltar. Because of this, they also owned any trade routes in the Atlantic. There have been beliefs that these ancient mariners came to north and south america to gather resources (two of such places are the hudson bay for copper and Brazil for iron [BRZL in hebrew is iron]). They were also believed to have a trade route to India. This is what could be believed to have afforded Kind David all of the luxuries that he possessed.
So finally the Phoenician empire was brought to its knees, but they weren't all slaughtered. Many escaped out of the area and some went north, some went west. There is a legend that says the last princess of the house of David (whose throne God promised to exists forever) went west, traveled north through spain (Iberia, a synonym of Hebrew) and ended up on the island of Ireland where the local king married her. These refugees had red hair (as did King David). Some of the tribes that went north (one of them being called by Herdotus as Scythians) migrated eventually to Scandinavia where they continued their ship building and eventually became some of the Vikings that invaded the rest of Europe. The irony is that when Vikings were raiding Ireland, they were unknowingly attacking some of their own people!
Just to finish up on the "knowledge" that I have.... The Irish monarchy eventually failed but the last princess in that line married into the scottish monarchy, which failed but then married into the English monarchy, which was ousted by the current family that came from Germany.

That is all. Have fun.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18606_8-historic-symbols-that-mean-opposite-what-you-think.html

yup... I credited the author in post #1.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

hehe good 1



The royal lines of the Kings of Haalogaland is documented by the way, you cant belittle this culture nor its importance.

all the way back to Odin, Burri, and Burr... right?

No worries... I am descended from a norse line, myself... from my paternal grandfather and paternal grandmother via two different norman lines...

makedadproud... would that have been the tribe of dan?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

when Mesopotamians had cities of thousands, the arctic had tribal villages...

contributed greatly to culture, sure.... spread civilization, hardly.

settlements are not civilizations.
Civilization spread to the arctic, not from it.

Brief Pre-history of the Vikings and Baltic Peoples
From the end of the Ice Age 10000 years ago people have populated the northern lands of Scandinavia (consisting of Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland) and Baltija (Plakans, p 1). Arrow heads and bone fishhooks are among the scant evidence we have for this (Raun, p 7). By 4000 BC farming was practiced in the southern regions of Scandinavia, followed by the Bronze Age around 2000 BC improved by iron-working abilities by 500 BC (Haywood, p 24). As far as Baltija was concerned there were two main people groups that moved into the region following the receding of the Ice Age glaciers. Around 3500 BC came Finno-Ugric tribes. They are identified by their 'trademark' "Comb Ceramics". Nearly 1500 years later, came proto-Baltic tribes, an Indo-European group. The evidence for this is a new kind of pottery appearing called "Rope Ceramics". It is with these tribes that agriculture was introduced to the region. A reason that this is thought to be true is the number of loan words in the Finno-Ugric languages today in reference to agriculture and animals associated with farming from the Baltic languages. Stone "Boat Axes" also were introduced to the area at this time, about 2000 BC (Spekke, plate I, II).

Little else can be said as to the customs and cultures of these peoples both in Scandinavia and Baltija in the pre-Roman and even Roman times. How these tribes lived, whom they traded with and whom they warred with is hard to say, if not impossible to say. It is possible that these three groups of peoples (proto-Scandinavians, proto-Balts and Finno-Ugric tribes) had contact with one another. This is most easily shown in the case of the Balts and Finno-Ugrics, but as for cross Baltic Sea contact little if anything is known.

Not until the first century AD do we hear of the Baltic peoples, by way of a Roman the Aesti are described. The Roman historian Tacitus is the first possible mention of these Baltic tribes in Baltija. He describes from second hand accounts the northern German tribes with whom the Romans were beginning to encounter on a more regular basis. He then describes the "Aesti" as follows: " whose rites and fashions… are those of the Suevi… They worship the mother of gods…they are more patient in cultivating corn… than… the Germans…they gather amber…" (Tacitus, p 731).

 

[arcticsun]

when Mesopotamians had cities of thousands, the arctic had tribal villages...

contributed greatly to culture, sure.... spread civilization, hardly.

Nono you misunderstand, you have to think of history as fluent and constantly in motion, constantly there are migrations, wars and borders are moved. Are Norwegians today not rich and influential despite their low numbers? Is Norway today not a place for high culture and rich people despite the fact that we dont build skyscrapers an such, quite the contrary we dont like building things in our own country. Oooopen your mind mate, Norwegians are all up in all kinds of business today, we're locked in tight with the money. You dont need me to hold a magnifier in front of this fact. Its funny how you make all these threads about suppression of knowledge and denial.


See, what im saying is that the arctic acts as an engine in earth development. If you imagine the icecap as the engine pistils going up and down on the top of the earth, humans and animals has always followed this ice cap or ice barrier because where the warm winds meets the icebarrier is where a massive explosion of life happens. Warm ocean currents and winds melts the ice seasonally and there is an explosion of life, this is an annual occurrence, as well as there is a greater cycle. Hot meets cold, you dont need to be a scientist to realize what happens. In norse mythology this greater winter cycle is known as the fimbul winter or the long wither, we call it ice age and minor ice age etc.


You only have to look at the annual migration of animals and humans into the arctic to realize the magnitude of this event. Its the greatest migration pattern on earth, massive. Global... Ok.
Suck that up for a moment before you reflect on it, the greatest migration pattern on earth, by far. Driven by the motion of the icecap. Surrounding this icecap is the taiga, a forest that circle navigates the earth. This taiga is fluent, it sometimes stretches all the way to the arctic coastline, it does this quite regularly with cycles of a few thousand years apparently.



Now during these greater winter cycles, or lets call it fimbul winters. The whole north is emptied out for people, now take a look at the scale of it mang, around the whole world people and animals migrate south. However, what we often fail to imagine is that during long periods of time the arctic is practically ice free, we are seeing such a period now. Several expeditions are as we speaking circlenavigating the north pole icecap through the northwest and northeastern searoute in small boats without icebreaking capability. Sailboats.

Now there is a massive migration northwards as we speak, everything from plants to animals are moving northwards, every year we see more and more new species enter this area. And it becomes rich beyond your dreams, beyond your wildest dreams are the riches that lie behind the ice. The greatest treasures the earth carries. FFs look at Norway today, you think you know wealth until you meet people who just walk around and get paid.. whole communities of them... Just fucking shit money, just because they own a piece of land on the coast of Norway there is all kinds of crazy benefits.


Ok, after the ice age there has been several periods that has been warmer then it is now. The northwest and the northeast passage has been ice free several times. The arctic has been covered in thick pine forests and lush vegetation, all kinds of flora .. also edible flora has adapted to the very special light cycle in the region. Now it is not hard to find evidence in the flora of a mass of species that has developed their attributes and form in the arctic. The sequoia trees for example. Also pine and needle trees are originally adapted to this light regime.


It does not take much imagination to realize that humans has been in motion too, following the season and the ice, the travellers up north ... And this goes for other arctic regions also, not only Norway. Asia and America aswell. In many waves has this occured, you cant look for evidence of one event, its been a fluent and continuous event.


You have to see the arctic to realize it, you have to see how the world is attracted to the place, the massive waves of life that comes and leaves. We can feel the pulse of the earth here, we get a headsup on world events.



If you really read epic writings you will quickly find the tales of paradise where the sun shines neverending, the point around which the heavens themselves rotates. And the north star as a reoccuring theme. In ALL religion, not just the big ones, small obscure religions around the world has this as a reoccuring theme. It does not take much imagination to understand that when conscious humans move into an area directly under a star that does not move on the night sky and where the sun does not set for months, that this will have profound effect on his perspectives and world views.


The arctic is much much more then you care to admit in the evolution of human consciousness and culture. Even today the greatest minds on earth come here to philosophize over the place, to draw inspiration from it. I think its sad if you have family connections to this place that you dont know how profoundly important it is to the world, that you dont understand the magnitude and scale of it.


The evidence of migration patterns out of the arctic is too vast for me to draw out one example, but id like to focus on Lofoten and Varanger and northern Scandinavia as one such place that has had such profound impact on the modern cultural scene on the northern hemisphere and especially for all socalled westerners in the most recent history. Its a place very.. very rich in culture and also materially rich. Its where your northern ancestors came from, the place they held for the upmost holy place on earth. Its a place they would likely have had trade connections to at the very least. Its where the first images of a two horned god is carved into the rock walls.

 

[arcticsun]

The Russian arctic and migration routes along the arctic coastline. Bear in mind that scientists are very cautious with new information that goes against established theories.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4526-ancient-site-hints-at-first-north-american-settlers.html

Ancient site hints at first North American settlers
15:03 02 January 2004 by Jeff Hecht

Stone-age people lived in the lands north of the Arctic Circle before the peak of the last Ice Age - much earlier than had been thought, suggests new findings.

The discovery of the site in eastern Siberia also hints that people might have moved from the Old World into the Americas at a much earlier date than believed.

The site along the Yanu River, carbon-dated as 30,000 years old, is twice the age of the oldest previously known Arctic settlement, report Vladimir Pitulko of the Institute for the History of Material Culture in Saint Petersburg, Russia, and colleagues.

The area is about 2000 kilometres from the Bering Strait. This is important as archaeologists have long suspected that some of the earliest Americans may have crossed the Bering land bridge from northeastern Asia. However, scientists had little evidence of Arctic settlements in Asia older than 14,000 years - the age of the earliest Alaskan sites. The age of the Yanu River site shows that people learned to live in the Arctic much earlier, and might have reached Alaska earlier than has been recognised.

"Pitulko's find is exciting because it shows that people were living in an ecosystem that stretched continuously between Asia and North America. If they had wandered a little further eastward...bingo - they could have been the first Americans," Daniel Mann of the Institute of Arctic Biology at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks told New Scientist.
Reindeer bones

Russian geologist Mikhail Dashtzeren found a rhino-horn foreshaft of a spear along the river in 1993. A foreshaft is the detachable piece between the main part of a spear and its point. Dashtzeren guided archaeologists to the site in 2001. Pitulko's team found 383 stone artefacts in the area, as well as many bones from ice-age Siberian animals including mammoths, reindeer, woolly rhino and bison.

The ancient site would have been an open meadow in the river's flood plain when occupied. It is unclear if people lived in the area all year, or only came north in summer to hunt. The abundance of reindeer bones indicates they were the most common food.

The flaked stone tools resemble those from more southerly sites at the time. However, the rhino-horn foreshaft, and two similar ones of mammoth ivory, resemble tools used by the Clovis people who spread over North America about 12,000 years ago and are believed to be among the continent's first human settlers.

But archaeologists are wary about linking the two. "It's a fabulous site," David Meltzer of Southern Methodist University in Dallas, told New Scientist. The dates look solid, and "it's tells us that people were in the far north a whole lot earlier than we ever thought."

But he cautions the new settlement and those of the Clovis are separated by 16,000 years and thousands of kilometres.

 

[arcticsun]

The arctic, remember, is just melting down these days. We are just starting to discover many of the cultural signs in the area. In my area alone there is such a mass of cultural signs that the scientists are overwhelmed, much of it is contradictory and cannot be placed in one or the other ethnic group. Also bear in mind that the arctic is today a hotspot for economic activity, many groups are working to prove herital rights in the different regions and the cultural scene is complex.


I dont think, for the record, that the development or behavior of the socalled ethnic norse or scandinavians or what you wish to call us is unique. I think on the contrary that many ethnic groups has had a similar boom in cultural development because of migrations in and out of the arctic and subsequent mixing with other groups. Im not also saying that all kinds of culture developed in the arctic necessarily, but rather that migrants with connection to the arctic must have played a massive role in cultural development also in the more southern regions such as China and the fertile crescent.


My point is that i think the cause of the cultural development is the world climatic patterns, not the intellectual superiority of any ethnic group. I think rather that ethnic groups of different origin has contributed on different occations to cultural development driven by the need for migration and subsequent meeting with other groups. Creating new groups and new cultures. However many of these new groups and new cultures maintain traditions of the old original groups and this can be tied back to the far north in many cases.

 

[arcticsun]

all the way back to Odin, Burri, and Burr... right?

No worries... I am descended from a norse line, myself... from my paternal grandfather and paternal grandmother via two different norman lines...

The line actually goes back to ULL or EL, whos origin is quite explicitly in a number of folk tales and epics from more then one country connected to have been in the Lofoten islands.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The line actually goes back to ULL or EL, whos origin is quite explicitly in a number of folk tales and epics from more then one country connected to have been in the Lofoten islands.

which epics? nothing i've read goes back further than burri... burri was the first man... dontcha gotta travel down to Mesopotamia to meet up with el.

The melting frost became a cow called Audhumla from whose udders ran four rivers of milk that fed Ymir. After one day of licking salty ice blocks, she freed a man's hair from the ice. After two days, his head appeared. On the third day the whole man was released from the ice. The man's name was Burri. Burri had a son named Burr. Burr married Bestla, the daughter of a Giant, with whom he had three sons. Odin was the first, Vili the second, and Vé the third.

 

[arcticsun]

Bro, when trying to understand norse history and lore, you must realize as ive told you that we are migrant people. Scandinavians migrated to and fro France, Spain, Italy and Greece in quite large numbers. As do we today, only a few of us stays up here in the old lands. Look at all the lore connected to the old Scandinavians, they were seafaring and wide ranging, or they were schythians .. horse people who travelled the central asian steppes. In all cases they were wide travelling traders. Tell me which nation has gone so widely in their journeys and been spoken of by so many other cultures around the world. Tell me GFH if you think its coincidental the you have a family connection yourself?


So there are many languages and many different religions connected to them. Many sub groups and so on.

Balder
2010-05-05, 18:38
The Nordic Bronze Age civilisation 1800-500 B.C. - second in Europe only to Mycenae (Greece)?
Link: http://arno.daastol.com/history/NordicBronzeAge.html

In 2005, the Nordic state television companies have co-produced and broadcasted a documentary (three episodes, each one hour), called "Stenristarna " - or 'Helleristerne' - the stone carvers.

The content of the thorough documentaries is intriguing. The stone carvings along the coast line between Copenhagen-Gothenburg-Oslo + Bergen and Trondheim have for centuries ... been unintelligible. This concerns the southern carvings from 2000-500 B.C.

The northern carvings in Fennoscandinavia (North Finland and -Norway, north of the map shown above) from the period 6000-2000 B.C. are more easily interpreted as those of hunter and gatherer peoples. As opposed to the northern carvings , the southern carvings (in Denmark, Sweden and Norway) include multifarious categories of elements that show close contact to the Atlantic facade of Europe and the inner Mediterranean.

Reinterpretation indicates not only that the bronze age technology in Scandinavia was second in Europe only to Mycenae i Greece, but also that contact was particularly strong between Scandinavia and the eastern Mediterranean areas and with Greece, in particular, in addition to India, Africa, Egypt, Phoenicia, and Italy. (the later Vikings also had contact with all these culture including India). When seen as an ideographic language (like Chinese and Egyptian hieroglyphs) the carvings tell stories of humans and Gods, of technology and travels.

'Recently' researchers started to compare the carvings and housing technology, ship and sail technology, chariots, burial techniques, armament, art and jewellery etc, - with other cultures and found amazing and very close similarities:

E.g. between Bohuslän (north of Gothenburg) and Ulster (Ireland); between Fyn (Danish island) and the Villa Nova culture in the Italian Alps; between Bergen (western Norway) and Spain; between Trondheim (middle Norway) and Egypt. There are close similarities to images (wall paintings, pottery etc) in Egypt and Northern Africa, but above all the similarities are between Scandinavia and Mycenae (90 km NW of Athens). The mythology and Gods seem similar. The Phoenician god Baal could well be the Nordic god Balder.

The Swedish archaeologist Sven Nilsson suggested 100 years ago that Scandinavia was a Phoenician trading outpost. He was never taken seriously. This may be supported by the "fact" that this culture appeared suddenly, similarly disappeared suddenly, and accordingly the following civilisation was less advanced. (I wonder how the archaeologists can be so sure of this 'fact' of sudden appearance and disappearance, some 3-4000 years ago - and what is "suddenly".)

The other possibility is that Scandinavians went south, as Jordanes claims in his The Origin and Deeds of the Goths. (http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~vanhttp...ticolo2.htmldersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html)

This also fits nicely with genetic indications of a southward movement and Felice Vinci's articles "Homer in the Baltic" (http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/episteme/ep2vinc2.htm), and Synesthesia and Homer's world, namely that the story of Homer's Illiaden actually took place in the Nordic countries (the geography described does not fit the Mediterranean but fits like a glove with the Nordic waters).

Whichever way the contact went, the most important trading item of the north seem to have been fur and above all amber, used as necklaces also by Egyptian pharaohs.

The Greeks claimed to come "from the north" - the Dorians first arrived in Greece around 1100 BC.
Many Nordic rock carvings are older, but most correspond with that period as for instance those in the Oslofjord.
A new and unknown characteristic is that the 1074 carvings south-west of Oslo at Skien, looked Celtic.
They are around 2500 to 3100 years old and were found by the local history association, Skien Historielag and the local association for ancient memorials Gymir. There are photos and movies in this article (http://www.aftenposten.no/viten/article1068311.ece?service=print):

9000 years BC: Trade between western Norway and the Baltic
Archaeological preparations due to construction of a gas link to the UK from western Norway has again revealed old settlements, this time 11.000 years old at Aukra (between Bergen and Trondheim). 320.000 items have been found, again with amber suggesting contact with the Baltic. The archaeologists argue that the people came from Northern Germany and Denmark. www.dagbladet.no/magasinet/2004/08/11/405197.html

There are now 3 known major areas of rock carvings between Copenhagen and Oslo:

Tanum (north of Gothenburg)
Sarpsborg- Skjeberg (just north of the Swedish/Norwegian border)
Skien (across the Oslofjord from Sarpsborg)

In addition there are many other finds in southern Scandinavia, but these are e.g. items, like bronze weapons, jewelery, and many huge stone coffins of an even older date - possibly from non-Indo-European peoples soon after the last ice age (8-10.000 years ago.
See e.g. www.raa.se/sites/kivik.asp



I watched the Swedish documentary "Stenristarna (http://butiken.svt.se/system/search/product.asp?id=314)" some months ago, unfortunately for non-Swedish speaking I doubt that there's an English version, I am not sure though. But reading the article and following the links on, what you think about it?

I find it a lot interesting...

Out of curiosity, some simple articles about Nordic Bronze age;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age
http://stason.org/TULARC/travel/nordic-scandinavia/2-5-1-Norden-in-prehistoric-times.html

This quote is not accurate, but it draws attention to the fact that for one, the rock petroglyphs are older in northern scandinavia then in the south, and for another thing
that the culture is Scandinavia during the bronze age was well developed. Second only to the Greeks.



Which is funny, because the ancient Greeks were actually Scandinavian climate migrants.

Felice Vinci, The Baltic Origins of Homer’s Epic Tales; The Iliad, They Odyssey, and the Migration of Myth (Rochester, Vermont: Inner Traditions, 2006)

Written by Michael Gibbons



Felice Vinci’s Baltic Origins of Homer’s Epic Tales was my first introduction to this body of scholarship which I found to be deeply intriguing and thought provoking. Vinci makes the argument that the Homeric tales show evidence that these well known myths took place in the Nordic regions rather than in the Mediterranean as commonly understood. His evidence is linguistic and geographic. For instance, he walks through key components of the tales illustrating that the geographies of The Faroe Islands, Norway, and Sweden, match the described details of the Ogygia, Scheria, and Ithaca remarkably closely, and certainly more closely than anything near the Mediterranean.

For a similar instance, in his linguistic argument suggesting Ogygia lies in the Faroe Islands, he points out that Hogoyggj, the name of the mountain, is very similar to Ogygia as referenced in the story. Finally, while walking through his geographic and linguistic arguments that these epics are of Baltic origin, Vinci refers to the many times the weather is cold, misty, freezing, foggy, and with deep velvet colored seas, pointing out that this bears little resemblance to our warm, sunny, and blue understandings of the Mediterranean. This is but one series of examples in a few pages, with the book explicating many more throughout its length.

I found Vinci’s arguments compelling, although scholars more familiar with the epics will want to review the evidence for themselves. As this was new information for me, it set my imagination alight, and I found myself looking into other similar scholarship. This is a burgeoning literature, including Vinci’s other writings, and stretching back to Olof Rudbeck’s discussion of Atlantis as Sweden. It is worth noting that Vinci also gives a treatment of Atlantis in this work – but the reader can find out for him or herself where Vinci stands. Vinci’s work comes across as competent, separating it from some of the pseudo-scientific work which was propagandized by the Nazis. But this is where familiar scholars will be able to more quickly separate the legitimate and paradigm-challenging work from the rest.

As a sociologist with an interest in cultures, the follow-up question is intriguing. If these epic tales took place in the Baltic region, then how did they eventually take on a Mediterranean home? By what mechanism does a piece of culture move from one corner of the globe to another, but forgetting key such key elements as Sweden = Ithaca? Vinci addresses this in the 4th part of the book, appropriately titled “The Migration of Myth.”

A key component to the migration of myth here is the role of climate. Vinci locates much of the narrative in the climactic optimum (4000-3000 BCE) when a warmer climate made regions near the arctic much more pleasant and habitable. With the ending of this warm and favorable period, at least some of the northern people migrated southward. He argues that in the mythologies of many cultures, there are remnants of climatic collapse, and provides several examples of cultures that were disrupted or dislocated by the negatively changing climate. For examples of these possible migrations he draws from several northern Europe locations for sources of Indo-European cultures. He provides numerous cultural and mythic references creating potential links. These include possible cultural origins of several peoples in the Scandinavian or Russian Arctic, Aryan migrations southward and potential northern links to Egypt and Rome. Much of this argument is built on similarities between mythologies, biblical tales, and place names.

This part of Vinci’s work is much more speculative in my opinion, and creates something of a “kitchen sink” feel by throwing in all the possible connections. In looking for the potential northern origins of mythologies and peoples, Vinci brings in enough possibilities that it feels much more exploratory than the first half of the book. In all fairness, the research may only be at the exploratory level at this point. Nevertheless it is not as convincing as the argument that the origins of the epics themselves are Nordic – regardless of how those tales ended up in the Mediterranean.

The base outline of Vinci’s argument is as follows (p 327)
The Iliad and the Odyssey are properly situated in northern Europe
The original sagas on which the epics are based on Baltic regions
The tales travelled from Scandinavia to Greece at the end of the climactic optimum by seafaring Mycenaeans
In rebuilding their world in the Mediterranean, familiar place names and mythological events were reused
Through the epics, the tales of their ancestors were preserved, although their homeland was lost

He finishes his work by suggesting several lines of archaeology to investigate this line of reasoning, and provide physical evidence reinforcing the mythological and linguistic evidence.

This work is broad in scope and presents an utterly fascinating reordering of the epic sagas of the western world. As such, the realm of possibilities for new research and analysis is deeply exciting.

I will tell you to listen and believe when i say that Homers Ullyssevs journeys does infact take place in Scandinavia and Balticum. Ill reconstruct old Hyperborea for you if you want to, and show you how Scandinavia was only a few thousand years ago a lush and green horse shoe shaped island.


Also how a part of the coastline was lost just south of Lofoten in a series of gigantic earth slides known as the storeggen slides, how local folk tales still speak of these event and how this story has been perpetuated throughout the world. Ull is in local folklore the harvest god or the god of agriculture and he is often associated with corn and farming. The norse royal line derives from a line known as "farmer" or "bonde" the bonde kings. In order to understand what a bonde is, it means inhabitant or one who lives on an area, he is "boende". Its a title given to someone with more then 4 generations of family heritage connected to a farm. We recognize this word from the Dutch south africa settlers who called themselves "boer" meaning not really settler but rather inhabitant. Signifying that they thought themselves to be rightful inhabitants to the land. ULL is according to local folklore thought to be the first farmer. He is also said to have lived on one of the Lofot islands that sank in the sea, there is a huge number of sacred sites connected to Ull in Lofoten. And the connections between the deities in Lofoten and the Mediterranean deities has been studied and established to be remarkably alike. For example there is these very old religious petroglyphs.


Im just linking up popular reference for you to have somewhere to start, im not saying these perspectives im linking up is fully accurate, because I know they are not based on other cultural knowledge i have about the region.


It is no coincidence that the connections between Scandinavia and the Mediterranean is so overwhelming and seemingly interconnected beyond the possibility to separate them. As they colonized all the other major European states, they also colonized Greece, and ancient Greece is in fact built by migrants out of Scandinavia. A number of Greek scholars testiment to that the hyperboreans brought religious rites and shrines to the southern countries.



Now you can fight this notion, but if you do, i promise you that your perspective of history will remain fragmented and incoherent as long as you do. Start looking into this and you will see so many pieces fall into place eventually that you will not be able to deny it any longer. I reccomend you schetch up a timeline between all the different empires around the world and draw lines between them and see if you dont find a remarkable sequence of events connected back to the far north.



But with that being said, the people in the far north today, me including have a very complex cultural background, as is the region also a multicultural one. You would understand that from the migrading and traveling patterns. There is a symbiosis between different "groups", the symbiosis between the groups is so interconnected that its very hard to separate one group from the other as they are all interrelated. Plato said that the old hyperborea had 25 tribes, which is not unlikely considering the size of Norway, Sweden and Finland which the island consisted of. Homer and Platos description of it and other old greek scholars has shown to be remarkably accurate down to the names of the places and very accurate descriptions of the geography. For example he describes the worlds strongest maelstrom off the coast of Lofoten and the Trenykene islands and he mentions them by name. A great number of other places has been found to fit the description with remarkable accuracy. Also when reconstructing the old Scandinavian world we find that it was a very very different world then it is now, and that there has been some remarkable and massive events in the area.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

you should focus on actually answering my questions, then...
You posted alot of words, without ever answering me... Obviously I know the norse migrated. Please try to be more relevant and less random.

let's try again...

simple question... should be a very short and simple answer.

which epics? (a simple list of references which answer the question is preferable to volumes of related information which does not answer the question.)

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Which is funny, because the ancient Greeks were actually Scandinavian climate migrants.

you still have some things out of their proper place in the timeline... and think some things which are not held up by the available data.




Also, are you aware that culture and civilization are two different things?
and did you not read my repeated acknowledgement of the norse contributions to culture?

 

[arcticsun]

Did you not read my reference to the arctic settlements 30000 years ago and their possible connection to the clovis people. So NO you are not following me, even if you did nod. Im showing you significance beyond what you are apparently conceiving.


And which epic? HOMERS ILLAD!! Dont you read what i post?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Yes i take everything you said into consideration... as well as some pieces of the big picture you're ignoring... I think your misconception that you are exposing me to new information clouds your perception of my replies.


how does the Iliad connect Buri and the mesopotamian El?
that answer does not address the question.

 

[arcticsun]

Want me to find reference to how numerous times the hyperboreans are accredited to having brought religious rites with them to the lands in the south?

 

[arcticsun]

The picture you have posted is not including this new evidence of settlement in the arctic over 30000 years ago and during the ice age. Infact its fully querked and does not include the massive migration pattern in and out of teh arctic that im referring to.

Its neither including a rock carving recently found in Lofoten which has not been published in international scientific magazines yet as its still being studied but which is believed to be 50000 years old.

 

[Flying Goat]

Guys, harmony here, please...

I'll give ya some symbols that mean EXACTLY what you think they mean:


If you don't understand the message, contact someone on the Gulf Coast - we'll explain it to you!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Want me to find reference to how numerous times the hyperboreans are accredited to having brought religious rites with them to the lands in the south?

Canaanite religions and El predate that by a quite bit.
Religion was not invented in Scandinavia.

your pride in your heritage is understandable, but using mythology to assert what Dna refutes is not going to be productive for you. they're really no different than any other grandiose heritage based claims...