Feminized Seeds Vs Standard

[headband 707]

So I hate to say this but sounds like people blaming bad enviroments for bad breeding. Sounds like people blaming breeding technique for poor breeding practices.. It really doesnt change the dynamics because those envolved are doing it for fun or profit. It takes a bit of common sense to grow and be able to access good genetics at a reasonable cost. Ive been running the same fem version of pineapple express for about a year now and loving it... /shrug.

Like I said I get it bro lol.. doesn't change what has happened here..lol.. I'm sure your bud is sweet and you do a fine job LOL LOL..and I have had plenty of great fem smoke from great growers. Still doesn't change what has happened to this town bro bad tech or not.. Your absolutely right about bad breeding and on and on as there are so many ppl out there just dropping the seed in the ground that they find. They don't care where the seed comes from or what the parent is and on and on!! it's the way of the world lol.. peace out bro Headband707

PS always wanted to try pineapple lol yummy!!!

 

[englishrick]

like Acon said

hermi,,,,,im so hermi,,,i have nobody to call my own,,,,,,,,,ohhhhhhhhh

hermi,,,,,i am so hermi,,,,i have nobody ,,,,to call my owwwwwwn

 

[darwinsbulldog]

like Acon said

hermi,,,,,im so hermi,,,i have nobody to call my own,,,,,,,,,ohhhhhhhhh

hermi,,,,,i am so hermi,,,,i have nobody ,,,,to call my owwwwwwn

HA! lol!

 

[Honkytonk]

a stressed male may increase pollen production to increase his chances of survival, higher chance of pollinating another with more pollen produced, but any male that produces female flowers that are fertile will almost definitely self or be fertilized by other males around and will thus produce seed. thus not requiring females... these are strategies for out in nature, not necessarily used or wanted in breeding etc.

Does it make sense to you that a male plant in distress 'plans' for a couple of days of sex reversal and about 5 weeks of ripening seeds if environment already indicates it's 'pollen strategy' is likely not to 'bear fruit'?

As for the last paragraph... if you want to look at this from an evolutionary point of view, sure. In the long run cannabis populations will go from monoecious to dioecious and back, just not in time spans we need to be concerned with.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

Does it make sense to you that a male plant in distress 'plans' for a couple of days of sex reversal and about 5 weeks of ripening seeds if environment already indicates it's 'pollen strategy' is likely not to 'bear fruit'?

As for the last paragraph... if you want to look at this from an evolutionary point of view, sure. In the long run cannabis populations will go from monoecious to dioecious and back, just not in time spans we need to be concerned with.

i'm not sure what you mean by the first question, i'd say a plant can't plan for anything, it does what it's evolved to do. plants can't foresee an event and then plan for it as such, but yeah whatever the male does in the unnatural environment like a grow room is simply a result of it's evolution, it will do so because when out in the wild doing so was advantageous. but because we take them out of the wild and use them in a way that isn't natural ie creating sinsemilla then a lot of the things they do like throwing opposite sex flowers at seemingly random times seems to occur for no reason. when there is a reason why, it's just not going to help the plant or the breeder at that point.

anyway i better hit the hay guys it's 240am and i've gotta get up at 7 for uni tomoz wooo great fun! it's always a pleasure talking to you all and i'm sure i'll jump on tomoz and have a heap to catch up on hope you enjoy the rest of you evening, lol or day as it probably is where you are! night

darwin

 

[headband 707]

Definition from wiki on Fem seeds LOL..need I say more lol

Definition from wiki on Fem seeds LOL..need I say more lol

Feminized seeds
Instability of gender is a desirable in the wild, where reproduction is the most urgent goal. In cultivation, gender predictability is more helpful, because female plants which have not been pollinated are the most productive. It is possible to use a combination of cloning and "shocking" plants to get them to produce feminized seeds which will reliably produce female progeny.[38] A clone will retain the same sex throughout its life, so if a female plant is cloned, its clones will also be female.
Environmental stresses sometimes create pollen bearing male flowers on female plants – known as hermaphroditism or 'hermying'.
A method used by organic growers and promulgated by the Cannabis breeder Soma, is called 'Rodelization', or letting unpollinated female plants live several weeks longer than the normal harvest time. In such plants a hermaphroditic trait will self express in effort to continue the genetic line.
Some vendors of feminized seeds assert that hermaphroditic "parents" do not create reliable feminized seeds, since the offspring may retain this tendency. Others believe the fact that this method utilizes auto hermaphroditic traits is offset by grower observations that the tendency to auto-switch sex is not great in plants grown from seeds made this way, and the fact that it occurs naturally without effort on the part of the cultivator.
Colloidal silver suppresses ethylene production in bud sites, stimulating male characteristics. Spraying selected leaves, branches and – in cases where large a amount of seed is desired – whole plants with colloidal silver solution has become a preferred method of obtaining feminized seeds. Gibberellic acid has also been used frequently, but it is harder to find than colloidal silver. One method of obtaining colloidal silver utilizes a small direct current power supply and two pieces of solid silver jeweler's wire, or 99.999% silver coin.
Some cultivators claim that the genes responsible for hermaphroditism are present and may be expressed under stress from any of the above methods and that once expressed will be passed to seeds regardless of how it was activated. Though this view is incorrect, as a random half of the genes present in each of the parental plants will be passed onto the next generation. The theory of Mendelian genetic inheritance (Mendelian inheritance) (the most widely accepted theory of genetic inheritance) allows for the passing of genetic alterations (mutations) an adult has undergone after birth (called Epigenetics) onto the offspring, with equal likelihood they will be passed onto the next generation as any other genes present at seed germination, it all depends on the random combination of genes during the fusion of gametes. The likelihood of the offspring being hermaphroditic increases with the interbreeding of genetically hermaphroditic plants and vice versa, some theories it would be possible to selectively breed hermaphroditic cannabis to express the female flowering before the male flowering occurs, though this kind of selective breeding is beyond the capabilities of most cultivators.

 

[englishrick]

my only real fear is that without suppression of recombination, the male sterile or female sterile mutations could revert to hermaphroditism,,,

but in the present,, cannabis has no hemaphrodites,,,,,guys guys,,,please stop using the word Hermi,,,,it just confuses everyone,,,,

the past is the past ,,,the future is unknown,,,,the present is a gift,,,thats why its called the present

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

HeadB and Hoosier
Yo Brothers , lets not play a know it all game cause then there will be some attitudes between each other...

THERE is 1 thing i know FOR SURE about cannabis...
you will never stop learning..There is always something new to learn
Lets just marinade in all the information and and share our info.

This kinda like auto transmission Vs stick or the prop plane Vs the jet.
there is something for everyone...

As far as fem beans go! , There is no different than any quality breeding procedure
It all comes down to selection and the TESTING finished strains ... period!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Yes, headband you do need to say a bit more...I would like for you to expound on the points of that piece. Show me what part you think backs your stance.

(just a hint...wiki can be, and is, edited by whatever jack in the woods wants to edit it. And as such, is not considered a very reliable point of reference)

 

[hoosierdaddy]

HeadB and Hoosier
Yo Brothers , lets not play a know it all game cause then there will be some attitudes between each other...

Should one of us dumb down?
Look, I appreciate the advice and all, Dad....

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

A

I would challenge you to find a plant like Sam has that does not hermi under any condition. That is what you are saying and its simply so rare its not possible to breed only with these type of plants IMO. Maybe if it was legal and huge breeding regimes could be setup ... The problem would be if you found one of these holy grail breeders then it also has to be right in structure smell potency vigour... yea ... good luck man. Id have to reckon a guess that 95% of all strains fem and non fem are bred using stock that has some perpencity to show intersex flowers. I would hope that most of these have a low thresh-hold but still with enough stress intersex experessions would be had.

You can make ANY plant reverse! What it comes down to is the pollen viable....
intentions behind the selection process has a lot to do with the breeders finial quality... what is driving them to make Fems in first place!

 

[theHIGHlander]

headband, question if you dont mind bro..

so in you opinion you should never use Fem seed for breeding as thay WILL go hermi?, = offsping will be hermi aswell= fucking up the gene pool yeh?

so what do you think about my 3 year old blue cheese mom (fem seed) that ive had through thik and thin & still not thrown a ball out in angar...will the offspring be hemi,,,,(in you opinion of course )


keep it green
highlander

 

[ibjamming]

Yes, headband you do need to say a bit more...I would like for you to expound on the points of that piece. Show me what part you think backs your stance.

(just a hint...wiki can be, and is, edited by whatever jack in the woods wants to edit it. And as such, is not considered a very reliable point of reference)

I agree with what he quoted... And studies have shown that in random samples, Wiki was more accurate than Britannica, Encarta, all the other "big" encyclopedias.

If you see something wrong...fix it. If everyone did, it would be 100% correct...right?

Don't take this wrong...I usually agree with you, just not this time.

Getting back... We all know that being able to make "good" male pollen/flowers doesn't require the "Y" chromosome...

Wouldn't it be a bitch if high THC production was linked to hermi-ism? The better the weed...the greater the chance of nanners...to fuck it all up! How funny that would be. The very thing we hate and fight is the very thing we need more of.

 

[Texicannibus]

You can make ANY plant reverse! What it comes down to is the pollen viable....
intentions behind the selection process has a lot to do with the breeders finial quality... what is driving them to make Fems in first place!

I personally have not seen such a plant... You may be right in that you can 'chemically force' a plant to reverse. Its my understanding that the plant Im referencing cannot be stressed to induce intersex flowers.... Artificially influencing hormone levels is a different thing. I should have been clearer.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I don't disagree with what he quoted one bit. The reference I made to wiki wasn't because I thought the information was wrong. And I agree that wiki could be the best reference there is...but call me when final draft takes place.

The problem is that what is being quoted is misunderstood. Or the whole complexity of the thing is misunderstood by many.

The intersex trait, which is a bit different from the full on hermie, is like any other trait that we select for. Some plants have the aroma we want, and we will breed away from (or not use) plants that do not carry the smell we like. Sometimes the aroma of the plant, lets say the full on bazooka bubblegum smell, is carried by a dominant gene. Which means that most all of the plants, that are the result of breeding with the BG smelling plant or it's "progeny", will also carry that same or similar BG smell...and only a select few from a population of siblings will not smell that way.

Now, let's assume the plant we are dealing with has the BG smell, but it holds it in a recessive gene. It is not really the big star in this plants gene makeup, so only a few of it's children will carry the smell.

And the intersex trait is the very same...in that it can also be either dominant in a plants gene map, or recessive. We may have two plants and not see the intersex trait show in either of them through a whole grow. Yet, if we screw with the lights, or present some other stresses on them, one may show the intersex trait, and the other may not. We cull the one that showed balls, and kept the one that didn't.

We need to understand that we pass on half of a seeds genetic information from each parent. And most all cannabis females will have the intersex gene within them. Some show it easy, some never...or not without extreme stress...extreme stress such as introducing silver ions to block ethylene reception.

 

[headband 707]

headband, question if you dont mind bro..

so in you opinion you should never use Fem seed for breeding as thay WILL go hermi?, = offsping will be hermi aswell= fucking up the gene pool yeh?

so what do you think about my 3 year old blue cheese mom (fem seed) that ive had through thik and thin & still not thrown a ball out in angar...will the offspring be hemi,,,,(in you opinion of course )


keep it green
highlander

No bro NEVER use hermi for breeding bro that is a very bad idea.. that puts the stock out there again and it's already out there. The plant has the tendency to hermie on it's own if stressed or you have light leaks . Stress can also be taking clones lol lol.. so it will depend on when your plant hermies on you .In the beginning? at 5 months? and so on.. You don't want to keep this trait as you either want your female or male. IMVHO ...Okay I have some Purple Urkle that once in awhile I would say I have put in 40 seeds and 25% of them have hermied/nannered. I think that is high but I still like the strain I keep it to myself or gift it to friends and let them know before hand.. peace out Headband707

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

Hey 707 you are kinda correct , but there are a few types of hermies mainly 2 , stressed induced xx, and hereditary yx... hereditary are the BAD ones yx Normal males are xy ,in some kinda order like that LOL
Also you have the type soma use's rodelization wich is the stage 4 late male banana's..
A genetic hermi is an no no , stressed induced is fine , I asked DJs about this in person .His reply was , Any Hermi trait can be bred out of a strain using proper techniques ,

ive used Fem's to breed Standard beans with Excellent results..

if we learn how the plant turns from female to male , then we can understand that ANY plant can be reversed , But like i mentioned before how viable is pollen!
And thats what counts
heres a UKcheese reversed , wich ive herd couldnt be done!

 

[darwinsbulldog]

I agree with what he quoted... And studies have shown that in random samples, Wiki was more accurate than Britannica, Encarta, all the other "big" encyclopedias.

If you see something wrong...fix it. If everyone did, it would be 100% correct...right?

Don't take this wrong...I usually agree with you, just not this time.

Getting back... We all know that being able to make "good" male pollen/flowers doesn't require the "Y" chromosome...

Wouldn't it be a bitch if high THC production was linked to hermi-ism? The better the weed...the greater the chance of nanners...to fuck it all up! How funny that would be. The very thing we hate and fight is the very thing we need more of.

hoosierdaddy is correct here though, wikipedia may be very useful and almost always 100% right, but the fact that is able to be written up, adjusted, corrected, changed by any average joe means that it is not a primary source of literature and you should reference it with care. if you want to prove your point you need to go much further than wikipedia, find some papers on google scholar or even look at the papers that are referenced in the wiki page, as long as you can get to those primary sources of info it's fine. but yeah if i were to quote or reference something from wiki while writing articles to be published or even essays / papers i'd be laughed at and asked to remove it by my supervisors at university. it's a huge NO NO in the scientific community. but yeah if it's on wiki and it really is legit and true, you shouldn't have trouble finding the articles or books they've got the info from.

 

[ibjamming]

Come on Darwin...we're not exactly at a lecture on Cannabis sex determination...are we? This is an informal discussion. It should be kept as simple as possible. Who's the guy who throws around the genetic lingo? Ah...englishrick...I can't read his posts because I'm not about to go look up all that jargon! This isn't the place for it. Speak simply...it can be done. Just a suggestion englishrick...just a suggestion.

If it's correct...there's nothing wrong with using Wiki. It's a GREAT source for the common person wanting to get a "taste" for something. By all means, pursue it through the additional links and footnotes.

BTW...just because it's published, doesn't make it right...you know that. Knowledge, our understanding, changes all the time. Books are wrong sometimes. Papers are wrong sometimes.

Anyway...back to the discussion...

So, IS Cannabis a plant that naturally goes from one sex to the other as it ages? It appears from my limited observations that it could be the case.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

Come on Darwin...we're not exactly at a lecture on Cannabis sex determination...are we? This is an informal discussion. It should be kept as simple as possible. Who's the guy who throws around the genetic lingo? Ah...englishrick...I can't read his posts because I'm not about to go look up all that jargon! This isn't the place for it. Speak simply...it can be done. Just a suggestion englishrick...just a suggestion.

If it's correct...there's nothing wrong with using Wiki. It's a GREAT source for the common person wanting to get a "taste" for something. By all means, pursue it through the additional links and footnotes.

BTW...just because it's published, doesn't make it right...you know that. Knowledge, our understanding, changes all the time. Books are wrong sometimes. Papers are wrong sometimes.

Anyway...back to the discussion...

So, IS Cannabis a plant that naturally goes from one sex to the other as it ages? It appears from my limited observations that it could be the case.

i'm talking about when you have the burden of proof on you claiming that fem seeds are so evil etc, you need to do more than quote wiki to make a point. i didn't read up on exactly what he'd quoted, i'm not saying that it isn't right because it's from wiki, but if you make huge claims then you need to use more than things like wikipedia to prove your point and gain respect. there's definitely nothing wrong with it at all as a source of great info for anyone and everyone layman or not. re: "just because it's published" it doesn't necessarily make it right, but it means whatever's been published has been studied for a long period, looked at by many scientists, peer reviewed by many other unbiased scientists and then published in a renowned journal. it has credibility if it has been is my point. wiki goes through none of these processes and is thus not a primary source of literature.

i'm not sure yet with respect to cannabis going from one sex to the other with age, from what i've read and seen i don't think males do it the same way females do, but yeah i don't have enough experience in the area to really comment. though i have seen a lot and read a lot about females throwing male flowers towards the end of the flowering period so as whoever said previously (sorry i can't remember who it was) it may be because it realises it has no seeds being produced and is trying to survive by attempting to self.