8 Historic Symbols That Mean The Opposite of What You Think

[arcticsun]

wtf?

you are overstepping the line bro. Im not expressing my opinion on how i think it should be, im expressing my opinion on the reality of dogmatic perspectives that are created to soothe your mind. You just demonstrated how you take offense to this. Giving plentyful occation for motive for why such subjects are suppressed.

Nordic pride, you are off bounds man, im from a culture thats been subjected to stigmatic attitudes for centuries.


I find you are turning your head, because its whats convenient, and im no pride advocate, ill have you too good to call me such things. You should know better.

 

[arcticsun]

My opinons are also independent, im not getting them from any site related to any type of political movement, neither am i an advocate of any such thing. Im only an advocate of a culture thats being suppressed. I just want to tell about a place that people dont know about thats been much more important to world history and in the evolution of the current world scene in so many areas.


The region is very much a multi cultural region and so was the Varangian culture, it was multicultural. There was however a ruling class based on a family hierarchy and denying this is unhealthy imo. As there is a ruling very wealthy family hierarchy aricstocracy in Scandinavia today. Its fronted right in the flag.


Im very vocal about my opposition to this aristocracy, i always have been and im also very clear about it. You are only revealing your own insecurities with what you are saying.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

there is no culture which has not "been subjected to stigmatic attitudes for centuries."

stop whining and prove columbus came from nordic descent...
and don't act like hired mercenaries were aristocrats.

You were touting your knowledge of the true facts that would disrupt my entire world view...
now you're whining about being repressed when you were only offering your opinion...
what's up with that?

 

[arcticsun]

lol hired mercinaries, I think you are tripping man.


Ever heard of the danegeld? Get real, the Varangians claimed "protection money" from their subjects.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

whatever makes you feel better about the fact that they were the hired help, collecting protection money on behalf of their superiors.... thugs if you will, under the guise of imperial bodyguards.

Surely you don't imagine the vikings as a master race?

 

[arcticsun]

whoa.. get off the white supremacy propaganda will you


its insultive, im not trying to insult you


its quite an efficient way to deter people from an issue, also from wanting to conversate with you further

 

[arcticsun]

To answer your question-


Do i think so .. NO.. I think the colonization was brought on by need for moving into new land, its strange what people are capable when subjected to great threats in foreign lands.



Ive also professed to you before that im a spiritualist, i believe no body is superior to another body. I think all bodies are perfectly suited for their environments. I respect the beauty of all creation.


Furthermore, i think the place, the arctic is what spurred on the development. Not the people. The land and the place was what triggered these events, what made cultural development possible and so on. I think the expression of racism and cultural elitism among these people may have been a result of trying to maintain their original identity and culture. This expression may have been corrupted.

Thats the end of that subject

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

good... it was sounding to me as though you felt norsemen set the dome of heaven and hung the sun and moon... I'm glad I was misreading you there.

Didn't the fertile crescent spawn civilization? I thought persians had the monopoly on birthing civilization.

DNA maps don't really support civilization spreading from Norway...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Was he Greek?

What about the spices?

Tell me about the fucking GOLF SHOES!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chong_Irie]

Im lost.. I thought Columbus went to the Spanish to get them to sponsor his trip... Why would a "royal people" or aristocratic group need someone else to sponsor them? Am I missing something. I was educated in LA public schools forgive my ignorance =)

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Don't worry. Apparently the American school system hasn't taught us history. Stay tuned.

 

[Japanfreakier]

anybody know how much it cost adjusted to today's currency?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

A bunch of wars and a lot of money.

 

[arcticsun]

Are you really so uninformed that you think the Varangians was simple thugs?? Have you not read the history of the Russian nation? Prince Olegs campaign against constantinople etc. The crusades ffs, they may have been brutal, but the artwork and buildings from the era remains. Temples and castles and what have you not.



.. whatever makes you feel better, you said it best!

 

[arcticsun]

good... it was sounding to me as though you felt norsemen set the dome of heaven and hung the sun and moon... I'm glad I was misreading you there.

No the arctic has been vital in the cultural development of many ethnic groups.

Didn't the fertile crescent spawn civilization? I thought persians had the monopoly on birthing civilization.

You mean the Hellenists or the aryans or whatever they were called? Several historians, both Indian and Norwegian claims there is a direct connection between the Indian epic the Veda and the norse epic the "edda". The Veda mentions a homeland in the far north by the way.

Im not 100% on this but i think Persian empire is around 500 BC- Christ or around that time.

DNA maps don't really support civilization spreading from Norway...

That may be because the arctic was depopulated and the population displaced, as i was saying migrations forced on by catastrophic events and climate changes.

There is more then one region in the arctic by the way where there is archaeological evidence of human activity as early as 30 thousand years ago.


I wouldnt know, what does modern DNA science say about it? I base my ideas on cultural evidence mostly, much of it is based on what I know about the local history.


Rock petroglyphs in the arctic suggests the development of religion and monogamous male to female marriage as early as 7000 years ago. We know that at this time the arctic was lush with flora, thick forests covered the Lofoten islands which is a very rich ecosystem even today despite modern over consumption in the area.

 

[arcticsun]

Example on events thats caused human cultural development due to migrations in and out of the arctic regions. Maybe you see more clearly the complexity of determining historical events by DNA studies.


http://vinlandpublishing.blogspot.com/2010/02/human-migration-arctic-and-north.html

Human Migration - The Arctic and North America During the Mini-Ice Age
From 1200-1800, Greenland and northern North America experienced climate change caused human and animal migration that has not been repeated to the present day. The climate in these areas began to change dramatically during the one to two centuries of the latter half of the Medieval Warm Period (700-1200) and the onset of the next natural climate cycle, the Mini-Ice Age (1300-1800).

The Greenland Norse, whom I write about, and the pre-historical ancestors of certain northern American Indian tribes, depended on large land and littoral animal species for their existence. As the climate decayed from the benign temperatures of the Medieval Warm Period, inland ice and snow pack and coastal sea icepack would have increased with the onset of the Mini-Ice Age. The animals affected would move gradually south to ensure their own survival. Humans who depended on them, moved with them.

A study of Indian language groups reveals that massive human migration occurred on the North American continent during the Mini-Ice Age. It is virtually impossible to determine origin and relationships between the tribal bands because of the mixing of peoples that occurred as a result of this climate induced forced migration.

I am specifically interested in the Algonquian, Iroquoian, and Athapascan language groups, because the people speaking these languages would have had contact with the Greenland Norse settlers in my Axe of Iron series of novels, as the Norse moved south with them.

To offer credence to my contention of climate-caused human migration I offer the case of the contemporary Cree and Ojibwe Indians, both tribes are Algonquian speakers. Their pre-historical ancestors, the Naskapi and Anishinabeg respectively, play a major role in my novels, for they originated along the shorelines and inland areas of Hudson Bay/James Bay, where my first novel, Axe of Iron: The Settlers, takes place. Their ancestors, fleeing the climate onslaught from the north, spread out over the present day upper Midwest and Great Plains of the United States, where many of them remain to this day.

Others eventually made their way back north, again following their food source, as the climate moderated with the cycle that we enjoy today.

The Haudenosaunee, pre-historical ancestors of the Iroquois Indians, also contacted my Greenland Norse settlers during the period, but you will have to read my books to know how and where that association occurred.

I also offer the present day Navajo and Apache Indian tribes as an example of the mixing of cultures that occurred on this continent during the period. These indigenous people did not originate where they now reside, the American southwest. Their language is Athapascan and their pre-historical ancestors originated somewhere in what is now Canada. Their journey south began near the onset of the Mini-Ice Age, or about 1200.

As these nomadic warrior people took up residence in the southwest they came in contact with agrarian societies that were already there, such as the people we know only as Anasazi. Their invasion no doubt forced the Anasazi to develop the fortified cliff-dwellings - Mesa Verde for example - that they later abandoned as the onslaught of the warrior societies continued. This combined with the drought throughout the southwest that resulted during the period finally overcame their civilization.

Much happened on this continent as a direct result of climate-caused human migration during pre-history. The same thing will happen to contemporary humans - us - during the present natural climate cycle, as global climatic conditions dictate. The stark contrast will be that we will not be able to migrate, as our ancestors did, for we are too, many.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I never mentioned the persian empire.

Maybe you're right, and the arctic was the cradle of civilization....

Maybe you know what all the world's experts in the field have been unable to suss out...

Maybe a troupe of monkeys will fly out of my ass....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

You mean the Hellenists or the aryans or whatever they were called?

I mean the Mesopotamians, actually, but the egyptians and Harappans could probably be included.

what did the norse have going on 8,000 years ago when there were cities with populations in the thousands dotting these areas? a few scattered fishing villages with populations in the dozens?


anyhow... your theories are interesting, but only marginally supportable.

Yes the arctic was involved in the cultural development of several tribes, but not very involved with the rise and spread of civilization at all...

 

[arcticsun]

I mean the Mesopotamians, actually, but the egyptians and Harappans could probably be included.

I c

What did the norse have going on 8,000 years ago when there were cities with populations in the thousands dotting these areas? a few scattered fishing villages with populations in the dozens?

Oh you would be surprised of what was going on in the arctic 8000 years ago. Im not talking about only Norway tho, certain areas in the Russian arctic has been just as important. we are talking about quite large areas. Its not like a speck on the map, its more like an autonomous region. Id care to propose that once you are in the arctic, you are in a new continental region, its no longer Europe or America or Asia.. its the arctic. Its bigger, more culturally diverse then you imagine. But to your question, yes there was definitively high culture communities in the arctic 8000 years ago.

There are naturally rock carvings showing humans, gods and so on aswell. However boats confess to the level of culture these people had. Notice the numerous different boat building styles. Many of these boats have been reconstructed and found to be extremely sea and waterworthy. In fact the boat building culture of old remains and craftsmen in the arctic are still building boats by these old recipes.

anyhow... your theories are interesting, but only marginally supportable.

Yes the arctic was involved in the cultural development of several tribes, but not very involved with the rise and spread of civilization at all...

You are wrong, we will look at Lofoten and how the chiefs got extremely rich from trading in Lofoten. You are BLIND man with your opposition to this. The men who conquered England came from Haalogaland, and its still tied up in ownership back here. Dont underestimate it.

Modern civilization as we know it, was spread around the northern hemisphere to a very large extent by migrators coming out of northern Scandinavia or that had family or trading connections with northern Scandinavia. I dont think you realize how rich in natural resources arctic Norway is.

8000 years ago the first religious writings was made in the arctic, the first signs of monogamous life and marriage about 8000 years ago. Stone wall foundations and petroglyphs are much older then that. There was human settlements in the arctic at the height of the ice age 30-40 thousand years ago.


8000 years ago, one of the major storeggen slide events off the coast of Norway caused one of these migratory events.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Whoever says monogamy and marriage is civil is sadly mistaken.