best hydro setup for 11x11 room

[joe fresh]

awesome vid on youtube...i think that just convinced me for its simplicity and cleanlyness.....either will get it for newyears(enough time to collect enough $$ for a full set up)...or for my next place after this one....that setup is sick...i can just think of it now...full water cooled garden, with a full UC setup...lots of water, but looks safe and easy to use....very simple, i like it....


heat issue...no i got enough a/c to bring my temps sown to 20C if i want....but the problem in my head is the radiant heat that the lights produce....even though the ambiant air temp is constantly 23C-25C.....the radiant heat that my 1kw bulbs produce is still being felt below....for instance my floor is about 3-4 degrees warmer than my air....this is why in the future i was thinking bout a fully water cooled garden.....but dont get me wrong here...none of this is going to happen in the next few weeks as my money is presently tied up else where, so its more of something i was looking at for 2 crops away, or next house...either/or...what ever is better for me.....

 

[Numboard]

Umm wrong. What do you think, someone is going to move the table while being filled? A table with a res under it, is fool proof. Even if a hose came off, the res is under the table. I have grown quite a bit of weed with tables, I can vouch for them.

A bunch of buckets, each with a connection is more prone to a disaster. But as long as everything is connected properly, all should be good.

A res higher than a table is NOT going to spill water. It is not rocket science. A simple gravity fed line with a electric valve would work fine.

Buckets would work good for you as far as bringing them in and out of the house. No biggie like huge 12" pipes or tables. Plus very portable and easy to move around, well at least E&F buckets are. Not sure if the UC buckets can be moved around.

With E&F you do not need chillers unless you have some sort of huge heat issue.

Oh no doubt that having a res below the table is fool proof I definitely agree with you, And no I was not implying that you should move tables as they are being filled. Who do you take me for? rofl Should we really be suggesting a hydro newbie to build a complicated ebb and flow system where the res is above the table? I don't think so. This requires lots of planning and some complicated water moving maneuvers to avoid disaster. How are you supposed to know when to turn off the valve to the table? you'd need a float sensor connected to the valve. Also working in the drain sump pump into the mix seems alittle too complicated. The op doesn't seem very interested in hurdles like this.

Moving undercurrent buckets is a huge pain in the ass. You have to fully empty them, which is almost impossible due to the fact that there will always be some water at the bottom because of the "drain" placements. (If you are wondering how we do res changes, we add back fresh water as we are taking it out so after a while all the old nute mix will be gone and replaced with fresh water. The way i do this is by attaching a drain hose to where my pump empties into the res bucket, This sucks the water from one end and emties it through the drain hose. Simultainously I add fresh water into the res bucket so that it all gets cycled out) Once fully drained I can move my set of 7 buckets without disconnecting them. Any system bigger than that will defintily require partial disassembly.

Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
If you can do a ebb and flow system propperly with the tray above the res that will definitly be the easiest and simplest sollution.
Also catastrophic failure of a bulkhead fitting wont happen. The worst you might get is a small leak. That is unless you break it by stepping on it or something.
Also if you are considering a full water cooled room now, Definitely follow "hydro innovations" system. I have tons and tons of experiance with pc water cooling and it is very very similar. This is the best system i have seen and probably will be copying it (diy of course :3) in the future. Dont fuck with water cooled grow lights where the water actually encases the bulb. Just don't even consider it. "ice boxes" Do work, just make sure you have a big enough chiller to handle your load. DON'T SKIMP!!! Id love to help you save some money and do something like this diy if you'd like, Hit me up on aim. (its in my profile)

 

[joe fresh]

lol...water encasing the bulb????i have never heard of that but that sounds like an accident waiting to happen..lol

im actually waiting for my 2 hydrogen pros...ordered 2 weeks ago from watercooledgarden.com , they are the best, awesome customer service, and i was talking with the owner and he made a special order for me up in canada(their site dont say anything but USA, no canadian shipping), so i was very pleased with their service....any water cooling i plan on doing i will definently get it from them(they are a retailer for hydro innovations)

 

[Numboard]

Its actually like two cool tubes one a larger diameter than the other and the space in between is filled with circulating water to cool the light. The heat exchange between the element in the bulb and the inside of the glass is horrid. To actually make this work the water would actually need to make physical contact with the bulb. Hydro innovations has realized this so instead of attacking the problem at the source they cool off the air after the bulb has heated it up. Nuff said. Avoid it like the plague

Hydro inovations definitely does it right they have a very solid system that I think is the best out there. No, I am not a sales rep in disguise.

 

[dtfsux]

Oh no doubt that having a res below the table is fool proof I definitely agree with you, And no I was not implying that you should move tables as they are being filled. Who do you take me for? rofl Should we really be suggesting a hydro newbie to build a complicated ebb and flow system where the res is above the table? I don't think so. This requires lots of planning and some complicated water moving maneuvers to avoid disaster. How are you supposed to know when to turn off the valve to the table? you'd need a float sensor connected to the valve. Also working in the drain sump pump into the mix seems alittle too complicated. The op doesn't seem very interested in hurdles like this.

Moving undercurrent buckets is a huge pain in the ass. You have to fully empty them, which is almost impossible due to the fact that there will always be some water at the bottom because of the "drain" placements. (If you are wondering how we do res changes, we add back fresh water as we are taking it out so after a while all the old nute mix will be gone and replaced with fresh water. The way i do this is by attaching a drain hose to where my pump empties into the res bucket, This sucks the water from one end and emties it through the drain hose. Simultainously I add fresh water into the res bucket so that it all gets cycled out) Once fully drained I can move my set of 7 buckets without disconnecting them. Any system bigger than that will defintily require partial disassembly.

Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
If you can do a ebb and flow system propperly with the tray above the res that will definitly be the easiest and simplest sollution.
Also catastrophic failure of a bulkhead fitting wont happen. The worst you might get is a small leak. That is unless you break it by stepping on it or something.
Also if you are considering a full water cooled room now, Definitely follow "hydro innovations" system. I have tons and tons of experiance with pc water cooling and it is very very similar. This is the best system i have seen and probably will be copying it (diy of course :3) in the future. Dont fuck with water cooled grow lights where the water actually encases the bulb. Just don't even consider it. "ice boxes" Do work, just make sure you have a big enough chiller to handle your load. DON'T SKIMP!!! Id love to help you save some money and do something like this diy if you'd like, Hit me up on aim. (its in my profile)

Ah OK we are talking about two different things. I mentioned E&F table with res under, OR table on the ground with res above for DTW (drain to waste) where nothing goes back to the res.

I have run E&F tables where we had to pump back to the res, and it is something i think Joe should avoid. So I guess we are in agreement after all

 

[Numboard]

Ohhhhh okay i see now. Yeah drain to waste seems like a waste of perfectly good nutes to me. Especially a drain to waste ebb flow. totally not worth it.

 

[newhiddengrower]

I ran tables, and my only floods were from my own stupidity of filling 200 gallon res'es and not coming back to check them.

I also ran 24 buckets and never had an issue with them.

Never had a plumbing issue with my buckets or my simple tables. I did have some other tables that had pumps, switches,valves etc to pump back to the res since it was higher and there were some accidents with that till it got all dialed in.


3-4 feet huh? tables on the ground, DTW with hydroton. Or buckets E&F or DTW.

E&F requires medium and hydroton is a good medium that can be reused w/o much effort.



Medium less would have to be DWC or Aero, maybe NFT. But you do not see alot of commercial growers doing that. The reason is the medium gives a safety factor if something happens like a timer or pump failure.


I have run aero and lost plants due to equipment failure. In E&F i have had pumps off for 2-3 days and still kept my crop. That would never happen in aero or DWC.


With the 12" pipes, I meant that was alot of water to be running through the pipes weight wise and in case of a leak. With that setup, you would have the whole thing on the floor in seconds.

But I guess its not too bad, a foot of 12inch pipe holds 5.875 gallons. you want 32 feet half full. thats around 90 gallons in the pipe

In DWC if your pump fails your plants will be fine...

 

[Numboard]

In DWC if your pump fails your plants will be fine...

Water pump, yes
Air pump, no

 

[dtfsux]

Ohhhhh okay i see now. Yeah drain to waste seems like a waste of perfectly good nutes to me. Especially a drain to waste ebb flow. totally not worth it.

OH boy.... No not DTW ebb and flow. DTW drip. I have done the math in the past and DTW drip does not use much more than most recirculating systems. It depends on drippers, drip time etc. But you also have the benis of fresh nutes every feeding time. Not sure how well a drip would work with hydroton though. He may need to drip more frequently, and that may use alot of water. My math was based on people using coco

There are pros and cons to all systems. And solutions to all cons. DWC has a weak link of air pump failure. Well put two pumps in, both on a battery back up. electric goes out, they both keep running. One breaks, the other keeps working.

DWC may be his best bet as supposedly it uses little medium. Does UC have this same benefit?

 

[Numboard]

"DWC may be his best bet as supposedly it uses little medium. Does UC have this same benefit?"
What, that it uses little medium? Yes.
I bought one bag of hydroton 50 lieters I think, and I can already tell its going to last me a very very long time. I use 6" net cups.

 

[superusa]

Water pump, yes
Air pump, no

Depends. I can run my system without the air pumps on, and my plants don't die. My water feeds in from the top of each bucket through 1/2" feeds and the stirring of the water from that will keep enough oxygen.

I am still for the aeroflo system. If OP wants to buy a setup anyway and is looking at the UC which is really made for growing larger plants (i know about the different lids....), but is concerned about height, go SOG in the aeroflo

 

[Numboard]

Depends. I can run my system without the air pumps on, and my plants don't die. My water feeds in from the top of each bucket through 1/2" feeds and the stirring of the water from that will keep enough oxygen.

I am still for the aeroflo system. If OP wants to buy a setup anyway and is looking at the UC which is really made for growing larger plants (i know about the different lids....), but is concerned about height, go SOG in the aeroflo

(huge images removed)

Thats a really good point actually. If you incorporate some kind of waterfall or spray that should keep enough d/o so that in the event of a air pump failure your plants will still have enough d/o to keep em going till you can replace the pump. I think I'm gonna incorporate something like this into my setup.
Aero is great but definitively not for the newbie hydro grower. Waaaaay too much stuff to go wrong imo.

 

[BigGreen]

I run a UC and about to be running 2 of them. They come in 3 big boxes so no will know what your bringing in. If you want you can use the 4 plant per bucket lids for more smaller plants with out veg time. You will also need a chiller and that comes in a box as well so everything will be nice and discreet.
The under current is very easy to grow in.

 

[newhiddengrower]

UC is WAY over priced.


Ok they have a lid with 4 holes, but so freaking what? You see how far the buckets are from each other? thats alot of light wasting, and thats not a very Efficient SOG grow...


Now if you compare to do the Aeroflo you dont waste as much light and its alot cheaper than the UC system.

 

[Numboard]

Not if you build it yourself
Also im sure you can get the buckets closer.

 

[Str8Dank]

heres what i find looks very interesting.


buckets are nice and close...and if you look in one of the pics the buckets have 4 holes in each, allowing for more plants which is what im looking for

he beat me to it! get a UnderCurrent and run vert lights and you will be VERY happy. they come with 8 or 13 gal buckets and in any number of bucket configurations you want also with 40" centers from pot to pot not as close as in these pics. take a look over on *********.com a bunch of guys are running them and pulling 2lb per 1k with ease and the plants look amazing! they are using horse fence around each bucket to keep the 10oz plants held upright.

if you dont have plant count concerns then i would do a sog on a ebb and flow 4 x 8 tables with big rockwool cubes you can fit like 200 of them on a table. that will make for simple nice single cola plants if you got the right genetics that would be a great way to go. the undercurrents use a TON of nutrients. think about it 100+ gal res plus say 10 13 gal bucks is 230 gal of water/nutes every flush. most dont flush weekly of course but they do run multiple lights like

xox
oxo
xox
oxo

x=light o= plant or visa versa and they run 1k vert's but like i said they are pulling 2 per 1k with their right genetics in these systems and only running a few plants. if you are in a med state it's the way to go i'm about to switch to one as soon as i get the right location with enough juice to run 12k.

 

[superusa]

im a promix/soil man, but with the size of my rooms im thinking bout switching over to hydro, for the ease of getting rid of the waste product(no dirt to haul in or out of my house)


so basically i have 3 rooms 11x11 each, and was wondering which is the simplest way to set things up for a hydro grow?



i was thinking of using 12" pvc/abs(which ever) pipe and cut them 8 ft long, and cut holes in the top for the plants and have water running at all times, but make sure that the 12" pipes are atleast 1/2 full with water at all times, so it would be a kind of "trough RDWC"....and have like 4 12" pipes connected together to make a 4x8 RDWC pipe system, is this possible?

is there something simpler that is easy to install? easy to use?

i understand the basics of growing in hydro....my problem comes to building/connescting the equipment as i am afraid of floods, and am thinking it would be a mess if i tried to set up some sophisticated hydro setup that runs on timers,

....i need something that runs without timers...that can accomodate 200 plants in my 3 rooms(no veg), so i figure 50-70 plants per room.

You sound like you really should be looking into either ebb&flow trays or an aeroflo. SOG either way man. Everybody knows the UC is a good system (I run RDWC myself so believe me I am the first to rep the results of these types of systems), but you are not growing 50-70 plants per room in a UC, plus you would need several of them per room to get those kinds of plant numbers, and they really are designed to grow larger plants. From what you are describing as your needs, nothing is gonna be better for you than an SOG setup, and the two best ways to do that is E&F trays, or an aeroflo, which is basically a similar system to what you describe above, but turn-key out of the box. If i was doing SOG again, and in that much space, i would be sitting on some aeroflo 60s and laughing about my picture perfect SOG while operating a system that is just as simple to use as E&F trays. You don't need 13gal, or even 5gal buckets to grow 2' tall lolipops.

 

[dtfsux]

You sound like you really should be looking into either ebb&flow trays or an aeroflo. SOG either way man. Everybody knows the UC is a good system (I run RDWC myself so believe me I am the first to rep the results of these types of systems), but you are not growing 50-70 plants per room in a UC, plus you would need several of them per room to get those kinds of plant numbers, and they really are designed to grow larger plants. From what you are describing as your needs, nothing is gonna be better for you than an SOG setup, and the two best ways to do that is E&F trays, or an aeroflo, which is basically a similar system to what you describe above, but turn-key out of the box. If i was doing SOG again, and in that much space, i would be sitting on some aeroflo 60s and laughing about my picture perfect SOG while operating a system that is just as simple to use as E&F trays. You don't need 13gal, or even 5gal buckets to grow 2' tall lolipops.

The room is 11x11 and he wants 50-70 plants per room. That is NOT a SOG. he could fit 65 plants in a 4x4 tray SOG style, what is he going to do with the rest of the room?

 

[joe fresh]

looking at the UC system that is 9 x 3....with 4 hole lids....thats 20 buckets x 4 plants per bucket....thats 80 plants per 11x11 room, which is perfect.....hell i could even fit 3 systems in each room...but i wanna leave a bit of room in an isle in the middle....something i dont have now because my room is too crowded...lol

 

[Numboard]

looking at the UC system that is 9 x 3....with 4 hole lids....thats 20 buckets x 4 plants per bucket....thats 80 plants per 11x11 room, which is perfect.....hell i could even fit 3 systems in each room...but i wanna leave a bit of room in an isle in the middle....something i dont have now because my room is too crowded...lol

You best make a grow thread once you get this shit built.