Organic Vs Chemical.... is there no end difference?

[Xtensity]

I know this has been discussed many times... People say, oh you don't want to be smoking chemicals etc.....

Though, regardless of that, if we stop feeding within the last 2-3 weeks for the sole purpose of allowing the plant to use up all leftover nutrients, then wheres the harm?

The elements and compounds in both organic and chemical fertilizers get broken down and used by the plant to produce plant material, so why do people debate over this issue? As long as you stop feeding 2-3 weeks or so before harvest there shouldn't be any leftover chemicals in the plant right?


Fill me in on any details I missed, because I don't the harm in using chemical fertz over organic if they all get used up by the plant by harvest.

 

[enter sandman]

chemicals are chemicals, phosphorus in organic nutes is the same phosphorus in chem nutes. After saying that, the organic nazis will say 'it is how it's produced' & some other such ridiculous crap. I never had any animosity against organic users until I started posting my grows & listing my chem nutes. Then I'd get mostly replies like 'chemical nutrient are shit...what a noob, chemicals are bad for you, it will cause your balls to rot off ' & numerous other replies along those same lines. I might get one or two 'yeah, nice grow man, those buds look frosty!' So I quit doing that. Research your heart out & you will discover that it's perfectly safe to use chemical nutrients on yer budz man. Anybody who tells you otherwise is, well, a tree hugging weirdo.

 

[slyman]

tree hugging weirdo

this is one thing thats wrong with the world today. people see it as a bad thing to care about the environment

 

[HempAlchemist]

I think the only logical argument for organics over salt based nutrients is the environment. A lot of chemical nutrient companies use petroleum based products or use sub-par/enivonmentally unsustainable methods of obtaining said products. Other than that, there is no real difference to organics vs salts. both will produce beautiful buds, that smell and taste great. The key to this is growing properly with both types of nutrients. Non flushed, salt based buds will taste just as bad as buds grown with too much manure or mushroom compost.

 

[gingerale]

this is one thing thats wrong with the world today. people see it as a bad thing to care about the environment

no, people see it as a bad thing to be a tree hugging weirdo. people who care about the environment and who take logical (not overblown and based on bullshit hippie marketing) steps to help protect the environment while still advancing human interests are not looked down upon at all.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

Most of the growers that I'm friends with grow with chemical nutes. Love their herb, love it when done well.

I switched and now grow fully organic for 2 reasons.

1.) I smoke up to 3 ounces a month if I can and the second that a couple icmag'rs hooked me up with some organic bud I changed my methods within a week. They are expert growers but so were the people I got chem weed from and my own chem weed.

2.) It's cheaper and easier. My complete soil cost me around $10 a cubic foot to make. That's no more work really. Not much. Then all I have to do through veg and flower is plain un PH'd water. I can and do use aerated teas but nothing really intensive or expensive. It's easy, easy, easy. No flushing, no PH, etc

These are the healthiest plants I have ever grown.

My thoughts aren't backed up by anything except some experience.

 

[one Q]

Ive wanted to try LCs mix with Neptunes Harvest liquid stuffs one day I'll get to it.

 

[ureapwhatusow]

Most of the growers that I'm friends with grow with chemical nutes. Love their herb, love it when done well.

I switched and now grow fully organic for 2 reasons.

1.) I smoke up to 3 ounces a month if I can and the second that a couple icmag'rs hooked me up with some organic bud I changed my methods within a week. They are expert growers but so were the people I got chem weed from and my own chem weed.

2.) It's cheaper and easier. My complete soil cost me around $10 a cubic foot to make. That's no more work really. Not much. Then all I have to do through veg and flower is plain un PH'd water. I can and do use aerated teas but nothing really intensive or expensive. It's easy, easy, easy. No flushing, no PH, etc

These are the healthiest plants I have ever grown.

My thoughts aren't backed up by anything except some experience.

imo its all about the testimony

 

[Iron_Lion]

I've used chem and organics, I much prefer the 100% organic route for its end results.

I think however, it's just like anything else; anyone can grow good organic bud, and a few can grow great organic herb. I think it all boils down to the growers relationship to his/her plants, if you read your plants they will reward you regardless of your methodology.

 

[bobblehead]

I've had a chemistry class or two... And I say there's no difference between an organic molecule found in nature and one made in a lab. Actually that was one of my test questions.

The difference is that the man made molecule has been chilated, so it's ready for absoption, and has a higher affinity for absorption. "organic" nutrients need to be broken down by bacteria to be available to the plant.

So what's the difference in the end result? Well in organic you can't flush out all of the minerals a lot of the time, so you get more flavor from the minerals that are left behind.

So which has the purer product? Artificial nutes with a good flush. Now that's my opinion based on my education and observation.

 

[RNDZL]

I've had a chemistry class or two... And I say there's no difference between an organic molecule found in nature and one made in a lab. Actually that was one of my test questions.

The difference is that the man made molecule has been chilated, so it's ready for absoption, and has a higher affinity for absorption. "organic" nutrients need to be broken down by bacteria to be available to the plant.

So what's the difference in the end result? Well in organic you can flush out all of the minerals a lot of the time, so you get more flavor from the minerals that are left behind.

So which has the purer product? Artificial nutes with a good flush. Now that's my opinion based on my education and observation.

there are some fundamental differences, please do not misconstrue this as a claim to one is better than the other, but rather a simple view of a bigger picture that I have come to interpret

There are more components to plant nutrition relative to heath than pure micro.macro nutrients

there are no synthetic bacterias in horticulture (that I know of), yet they are proven to enhance plant health and facilitate a healthy more robust rhizosphere that leads to better nutrient absorption

the debate of synthetic chelates vs organic chelates IMHO is all about the ease of application of synthetic chelates vs. the process of making soil active enough to do so as effectively

this is why i see brewing microbes and feeding them organics in an effort to get the activity necessary for optimal delivery of organically derived chelated ions

if you could easily make your synthetics at home using common household items would you not do the same with organics if it were made as simple and ez?

it is proven that there are synthic vs organic differentials in taste, but in many trials the preference is still up to the imbiber (mostly citing botanical herb and fruit studies)

MY preference

Weed that is grow great not good regardless of technique because in the end they can all provide excellent results in the right hands

do I have a personal preference?

yeah but its personal

 

[RNDZL]

posted this elsewhere thought you may find it of interest

this was taken from another source and is relative to herb gardening
I wasn't going to post it but since you asked I will share. I have not completely taken this one down the rabbit hole, but there is very interesting info there.




Human sense of taste is usually tied up with aroma.

There are protein based enzymes that drive a conversion processes into terpene molecules; there is a volatile fraction that forms a compound our senses can react to.

One of the most researched is "geosmin", the earthy taste & aroma.

This perfume of dirt is absent in hydroponic produce, since the micro-biota that the geosmin compound is derived from are usually soil dwelling. (It's formation increases & decreases proportionately when pH goes up or down.)

In your search to manipulate taste:

the nutrient factors you should supply are the building block minerals for the unique composition of the terpenes associated with your crop & attend closely to the pH of nutrient solution stability at harvest time (so there is no lock out of those minerals allowing degradation of the volatile compounds).

Many cut back on nutrients prior to harvest, based on the theory of flushing the substrate to let the crop stabilize it's taste. You might want to experiment with cutting down the nitrogen & just keeping up the other terpene components.

Geosmin will be easy for you to find searching the internet; it is not found as a pre-existing compound in the soil or on fired clay pellets (rather generated out of bacteria/etc. byproduct that is a process fostered in the soil). There are other aromatics like esters, sulphur compounds, etc.

Let me stick to terpenes, which always involve 2 stages (1st hydrocarbon phosphates are coupled & rearranged by an enzyme, then the secondary oxidation of these bonds gives tens of thousands of different terpene compounds).

One of the aromatic catalysts has a structure whose central Hydrogen atom can be replaced by metal ions; such as Iron, Manganese, Copper (think of the 50 different kinds of chlorophyll with it's core Magnesium).

With some of your leaf crops the taste quality has factors other than mineral content.

Basicly, given adequate day time light exposure the night temperature (not the lack of light) is a key to temperate origen crops' taste. If the night is warm then the actual enzymes involved in aromatic oxidation are adversely affected; ie. cool nights can even favor flavor (one reason why some tropical grown temperate vegetable produce has such disappointing taste, yet tropical vegetables do taste savory ).

 

[joe fresh]

well heres my take on things,

organic ferts are "raw material" that the plant needs to break down, in order to be able to use it, therefore the plant only breaks down what it needs, then uses what is broken down.

chem ferts are already broken down and are readily availible for the plant to use as soon as you apply them, and because the plant has all these ferts availible would mean it has excess nutes/salts that it hasnt used because it doesnt need it, but because its "readily availible" the plant may absorb it immediatly and may or may not burn depending the plants tollerance, but either way will mak for a smoke of lesser quality.


well with that said......i prefer organic well grown outdoor weed.....but i use chem ferts and grow indoors, growing organic imo is just not realistic with my grow, its just too big

 

[The End Is Near]

I speak from a little experience that unflushed/unused bone, blood, and kelp meal in an organic mix is far more forgiving to end product quality than unflushed chem nutes. I used GH flora in coco and my harvest, while okay, was still a bit harsh. I admit my flush wasn't thorough enough, though I thought it was good enough at the time (15 days plain water, flush at beginning untill very low ppm runoff, but not as low as I wold have liked). Also, I used 5 gallon hempy buckets in coco, which are very hard to flush thoroughly. My previous organic grow was considerably greener and it made me worry about the extra N messing with taste, but it didn't. This time with flora, leaves were yellowing nicely and falling off, but it still wasn't a good enough flush.

 

[VerdantGreen]

both can produce a smooth smoke, but smell and taste are better with organics imo.

VG

 

[bobblehead]

Great info RNDZL! There's nothing I love more than an educated debate, and I learned something from the info you posted.

Basically it all comes down to technique it seems. And personal preference of course.

 

[!!!]

There is no difference in the end product, but I would not mind growing organically simply for the convenience and low cost.

I find going organic to be difficult. It's not something I've looked into much, but when dealing with chemicals, I know the plant needs 16 elements, NPKMg etc and I give it what it needs. With organics I'm at a loss as to where to start. Do I need kelp? blood meal? how much? do I need to incubate the tea? how long? what temp? etc.

I'll try organics if somebody would come up with a basic guide on what medium to use, what nutrients to use for various stages of growth, etc..

Maybe it's because I'm a science nerd but I don't think people realize how easy chemicals are. It's numbers.. add enough fert to reach desired ppm, add pH up/down, done..

 

[bobblehead]

Maybe it's because I'm a science nerd but I don't think people realize how easy chemicals are. It's numbers.. add enough fert to reach desired ppm, add pH up/down, done..

exactly what I'm saying. You know what the plant has, and what it doesn't. Easy in, easy out.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

exactly what I'm saying. You know what the plant has, and what it doesn't. Easy in, easy out.

Well same thing with organic but you never have to worry about feeding the plant, especially over feeding. The plants don't eat the nutrients in the soil. They feed the microherd, which secretes what the plant needs and when. The plant does this work for us, the microherd does this for us.

I know the plant gets everything it needs because I put it in the soil myself. You won't find a deficiency pop up.... at least I don't.

Takes what it wants, when it wants.

I always liked the control I thought I had with chemical nutes. PH meters etc etc. Really that shit had control over me. Feeding plain water IS control....... of my time

I mean take all the chit the plant needs.... that you give it constantly, get the base material, not in a bottle that your paying someone to mix and sell you at huge markup. Put all that stuff in the soil from jumpstreeet.

Smiley

 

[thal]

I think there is a considerable difference between synthetic and organic nutrients. I think organic products produce a lower quantity but higher quality than the same strain would with synthetics.

I find it funny that the hydro guys can't do organic, because as an organic guy I think hydro is puzzling. I guess it is all relative to what we have studied.