Coco and Soil Bloom
- Thread starter kiwiboy
- Start date
10 weeks huh? Thats a long time to wait for a response.
I havent looked but have you found anyone else recommending that much P?
The most popular mix in this subforum is the H3ad/Rez (6micro+9Bloom) mix which comes out at 97N 60P 107K this is obviously no where near 200N 200P 300K
Again, i havent tried that mix, ive just never seen anyone recommend so much Phosphorus.
I havent looked but have you found anyone else recommending that much P?
The most popular mix in this subforum is the H3ad/Rez (6micro+9Bloom) mix which comes out at 97N 60P 107K this is obviously no where near 200N 200P 300K
Again, i havent tried that mix, ive just never seen anyone recommend so much Phosphorus.
Well, I would not run with a 2.3 EC either.
I'll start with an EC of 1.6 and see how it goes.
So does the ppm drop when you drop EC.
2.3 EC = 200 200 300
1.6 EC = 139 139 208
1.4 EC = 122 122 182
Maybe?
C
Carl Carlson
C
Carl Carlson
the numbers in kiwiboy's first post are from this thread:
http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/334895-nutrient-recipes.html in which fatman7574 is offering to supply recipes that would match liquid bottles.
the 200ppm of P is not a recommendation from fatman7574. I think it's his interpreation of CNS17 coco & soil bloom and something doesn't seem right about it. It looks as if he took the percentages from the labels and added 00 to the end as conversion to ppms? compare:
http://www.americanagritech.com/fertilizers/cns17/cns17-coco-bloom
fatman7574 basically recommends 3-1-2 or 3-1-4 for higher light intensity / tightly packed sog.
maybe not...
maybe doesnt work like that...
ec & ppm totally different.
why so much phosphrus? what is it supposed to be doing?
not even cucumbers & peppers for food get that much, for consistently wkly feed.
fwiw, phosphorus is mostly stated as p205, which mean it only 43% of label #...
very difficult to get profile of 3-1-2, or 3-1-5 w/ 200ppm of phosphorus... would require ~46% 'p' on label, or mpk as posted of above...maybe...
3-1-5 more like 3 nitrogen-.43 phosphorus-4.15 potassium... n stated as mg/l... though that still approximation, as different elements have differnet molecular weights, that also effect how much in solution. see link.
what is the ph maintained @? w/ which ph adjusters?
what is common drift during 3-5 days?
maybe as booster @ certain points...
ferts seem work best if balalced, w/ lots of mg++ & ca++ fed separately...
this may be helpful, in actual formulas to finding any actual elements in solution. whether foodstuff, nutrient, or millimhos of elements from their atomic weights.
calculating npk/nutrient profile
I see. I figured something was wrong cause my notes had fatman at 3-1-2 (1.2Mg 2.4Ca).
I was just trying to point it out.
C
Carl Carlson
Thanks for the link Carl.
What I have put up is what Fatman has recommended to me. For my type of grow. I grow in coco, non high temp and non co2. Fatman holds the people that formulated CNS17 in high regards(which seems to say alot, he didn't seem to like many nutrient companies).
Anyway, I have taken the plunge and feed my plants today with the new mix. So if they all die by tommorrow, I guess you can say I told you so.
What I have put up is what Fatman has recommended to me. For my type of grow. I grow in coco, non high temp and non co2. Fatman holds the people that formulated CNS17 in high regards(which seems to say alot, he didn't seem to like many nutrient companies).
Anyway, I have taken the plunge and feed my plants today with the new mix. So if they all die by tommorrow, I guess you can say I told you so.
Your grow is not unique.
Coco naturally releases K, hence why the 6+9 mix is lower in K (97N 60P 107K) than the recommendation. This will be the last time i point this out, but you are trying to use 2X-3X more P, and 3X more K, than users who post perfectly healthy plants. This thread, GDP 4K 3G FTW NR GH 0-6-9 goes as far as to mention the 6+9 in the title, here are a few pics (I think the first was a POTM nominee).
Admittedly the 6+9 gets 2 (or 3) PK boosts during flower, but these are temporarily elevated levels and are different than trying to run a constantly high level. If those flowers look good to you, please understand that they wont get 2x-3x better with the higher P and K. Growing is somewhat like baking, a teaspoon of salt may be perfect, but a tablespoon could ruin the taste and prevent other chemical reactions (i.e. the yeast from rising).
C
Carl Carlson
Wikiboy, for clarification, did fatman recommend 200 ppm of P to you or did he recommend that you mix your own version of CNS17 coco & soil bloom formula? This is critical. If it's the latter, like I already said, I think fatman's reinterpretation of the cns17 is incorrect. *Mistress* also pointed it out. Maybe typos on fatman's part? First time I've seen a major error like this in his numbers.
Use the nutrient calculator with the CNS17 label and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm#profilecalculator
http://www.americanagritech.com/fertilizers/cns17/cns17-coco-bloom
2-2-3 n-p-k on the label does not equal 200 ppm - 200 ppm - 300 ppm
Use the nutrient calculator with the CNS17 label and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm#profilecalculator
http://www.americanagritech.com/fertilizers/cns17/cns17-coco-bloom
2-2-3 n-p-k on the label does not equal 200 ppm - 200 ppm - 300 ppm
Fatman recommend mix own version of cns17 coco & soil bloom formula.
I have been using the nutrients for the last week, too early to see any ill effects.
I was thinking of mixing the following to conform with other peoples thought and compare the difference.
Bloom*
ppm
Nitrogen 230
Phosphorus 82
Potassium 359
Magnesium 93
Calcium 184
Sulfur 123
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00*
Molybdenum 0.09
Ounces
Part A
Calcium Nitrate 121.8 3453.0
Potassium Nitrate 44.3 1255.9
Iron Chelate 13.50 382.7
Part B*
Potassium Nitrate B 44.3 1255.9
MonoPotassium Phosphate 51.6 1462.8
Magnesium Sulfate 125.4 3555.0
Manganese Sulfate 2.689 76.2
Boric Acid / Solubor 3.675 104.2
Zinc Sulfate 2.914 82.6
Copper Sulfate .588 16.7
Ammonium Molybdate .024 0.7
Volume of Stock Solutions 10 (5 gal Part A and 5 Gallons Part B)*
Dilution Rate 100
EC 2.58
TDS 1806
pH 5.8*
Salt Weight 3105
Also is there a calculator around that if I input the following
Nitrogen 230
Phosphorus 82
Potassium 359
Magnesium 93
Calcium 184
Sulfur 123
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00*
Molybdenum 0.09
it will output the quantities of the selected chemicals like this
Part A
Calcium Nitrate 121.8 3453.0
Potassium Nitrate 44.3 1255.9
Iron Chelate 13.50 382.7
Part B*
Potassium Nitrate B 44.3 1255.9
MonoPotassium Phosphate 51.6 1462.8
Magnesium Sulfate 125.4 3555.0
Manganese Sulfate 2.689 76.2
Boric Acid / Solubor 3.675 104.2
Zinc Sulfate 2.914 82.6
Copper Sulfate .588 16.7
Ammonium Molybdate .024 0.7
Volume of Stock Solutions 10 (5 gal Part A and 5 Gallons Part B)*
Dilution Rate 100
EC 2.58
Z
ZENARCADE
Cheers ShroomDr!
No better advice could be given as it pertains to coco. I've run the 6/9 for a few years. The low ppm might scare some people into thinking they need to add much more P and K. Wrong. Read up on how much P coco holds onto. 6/9 with the occasional koolbloom dose, half strength in early/mid flower, full strength for the last bulking push, is the way to go!!!!!! I've tried pretty much every nute plan out there over the past few years but the recipe Rezdog posted with 6/9 and koolbloom has to be the most universal, basic and fool proof!
Would be nice if I could get it, But can not. My only choice is to make my own nutes.
Z
ZENARCADE
I hear you about not wanting to go to the hydro store and the price of cannabis specific nutes! I'll be watching this thread for sure!
that profile should work.
water solubles out-perform liquid ferts any night of wk!...
maybe try wkly, one 12hr cycle w/ 100% cal-nit, too, +...
ensures cal absorption & tomato pl@ntys likey this
maybe adjust ph down to 5.0-5.5...unless have automatic ph-down, a starting ph of 5.8 will make solution/media ph rise to over 6.0-6.2, w/in wk... >fe++ available @ high ph. the nitrate nitrogen content of solution tend to release hydroxyl groups that increase h+ ions, making ph rise as cation exchange occur...
if target ph 5.8, maybe try 5.3-5.5 for start - if consider 5.0 too low... either, checking run-off, +!. it may rise over desired 6.0 if initially set too high, w/out daily adjust.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hydrocal/files/
Very interesting calculator.
So I suspect the formula that I am using is wrong, Hopefully there will be no excessive ill effects.
Can someone tell me the ppm's ratio for a 2-2-3 NPK?
is it 53-23-66
Very interesting calculator.
So I suspect the formula that I am using is wrong, Hopefully there will be no excessive ill effects.
Can someone tell me the ppm's ratio for a 2-2-3 NPK?
is it 53-23-66
