Actual-Cost Of Production

[Emperor Herer]

Cost of production is a major consideration if any sustainable business model. Unless you find a piece of gold laying on the ground, everything has a production cost... even air, when you look at a sustainable biosphere.

What I use today, pennies.
What I use this week, dollars
What I use this month, MORE dollars

That is not start up costs, amortization, depreciation, capital improvements, hard cost over head or emergency response costs.

I could go out an buy ten, 1000K lights... and grow one plant... :grow:
Buying the lights do not factor into A-COP outlay, or the one seed
My today cost is what I put into the plant... water, nuts, light and man hours.

Profit, or not, is after the product has been produced, NOT production itself.

Cool, so I 'pay' myself $5.00 an hour to 'produce' product... but then my 'profit' comes after the sale, distribution or disposal of said product.

Does my profit factor into my A-COP, ? Only as it is invested back into day to day production... switching from Miracle Grow to Advanced Nutrients will raise my operating overhead, per dose, per cycle per production run.

MG is cheeper, I think I will stick with it... but, wait, AN may have a positive effect on my A-COP bottom line... lets see... two cents a dose or two dollars a dose...
IF my production is increased 100%... OR my quality is increase 100%, or a combination of both, then I would have to seriously look at a Regime Change.

My back hurst... quick, somebody pull my finger...

 

[Stoner Chick]

Oh i am way too stoned to figure that stuff out.

All i know is that 2oz's will cover my start up costs, and 10oz's will cover my bigger project.

Man that kind of math will totally harsh your high. Just be conservative with what you spend and you will make out on top.

Some of these people here spend exorbitant amounts of money and effort and the returns look no different than the people doing it in a basic style with the right equipment.

Northern Farmer and SensiSamurai have super vertical grows that won't cost me my left tit to copy.

 

[Lazyman]

I completely disagree that labor costs aren't part of the costs to grow. Why wouldn't they be? helpers, trimmers, electricians, plumbers, all get wages in one form or another. my own time (which is significant) takes me away from other work, which means I must be compensated for my time investment, expertise and sweat. Any business plan will include labor and wages, to do otherwise would be foolish. Anything that is an expense related to the grow should be factored into the costs.

As far as startup costs, I find that $1500 per kw is about right, though this number can vary by up to $500 per kw in either direction.

 

[Emperor Herer]

A real world answer, for real world productions

A real world answer, for real world productions

I treat it like a business,
1) all consumables are written off on a crop by crop basis. ( nutrients, bulbs, CO2, media, RO filters, electricity)
2) equipment costs are devalued based one there life expectancy, (or a max of 2 years)

This gives me a fairly good measure or real costs.
Electricity per 56 days cycle (2x1000 watt x 12 hrs/day + Ac/fans usage)=$ 125.00
Consumables used ( tank co2, nutrients, bulb, media) =$ 200.00
Equipment devaluation ( $3000/13 harvests in 2 yrs) =$ 254.00
Labor costs these need to be taken into account ( $35/hr x 80 hrs) =$ 2800.00
Total costs per harvest =$ 3378.00
costs of production, 3000 grams per harvest /3378.00 =$ 1.13/gram


Giver or take each harvest I range from .80- 1.25 per gram.

junior_grower, thanks one million times, 1,000,000!!!
I like that you take in as a production cost the depreciation and that you add in cost per man hour. Your labor cost are great and equitable: pay yourself first, pay yourself well, and pay your workers the same per value received! (my take on it, not nessisarly junior_grower's take on it!) A new worker doesn't get paid the same as an experienced worker.. incentive to learn and grow!

Did you vote? I pencild in about 1.5 gm watt... Nothing to sneaz at, for those that do gpw.

From your hypothetical example it looks like you're efficient in you time and usage. May I blindly assume your quality is as top notch as your efficiency rating?

Efficient, sustainable and replicateble results... with an average A-COP of $1.06 USD :rave:

I am in NO WAY asking you to replicate!: do you feel you could replicate your production? And do you feel it is amicable to division/multiplication's of scale? ( bigger, littler )


Thanks for the input, junior_grower... you are my new gawed!

O M G... wheres my sammitch!?!? dam dog.

 

[Emperor Herer]

Why buy the cow when you can steal the milk

Why buy the cow when you can steal the milk

Oh i am way too stoned to figure that stuff out.

All i know is that 2oz's will cover my start up costs, and 10oz's will cover my bigger project.
***
Northern Farmer and SensiSamurai have super vertical grows that won't cost me my left tit to copy.

your left tit is for sale?

 

[Emperor Herer]

Damn, man, the lazy man can

Damn, man, the lazy man can

I completely disagree that labor costs aren't part of the costs to grow. Why wouldn't they be? helpers, trimmers, electricians, plumners, all get wages in one form or another. my own time (which is significant) takes me away from other work, which means I must be compensated for my time investment, expertise and sweat. Any business plan will include labor and wages, to do otherwise would be foolish. Anything that is an expense related to the grow should be factored into the costs.

As far as startup costs, I find that $1500 per kw is about right, though this number can vary by up to $500 per kw in either direction.

Hey my Souls brother from a nuther muther! Lazyman -s unite! and relax!

I am thinking that your estimate of the SUCK, Start Up Cost Knowledge, is spot on! Even adding in plumbers and electricians... if they are hired in-to the grow cycle, not just setup, should be factored in as well, and, even more important YES, your time could be spent elsewhere, making coin in the real world, so you should be 'compensated'...

I am wondering if you agree that the 'wage' you pay, yourself, not others, is part of the ongoing A-COP or are you taking your 'pay' out of the end results... 'profit'?

Me, I would deffintly 'pay' myself fisrt, even if I have to wait till teh production run is over. Pay myself, then figure out bottom line A-COP and profit.

You?


Enjoying a sunny crapy day. Wish it would make up its mind.

Wheres my cat?
dam dog

 

[Lazyman]

That's a tough one, I consider commercial growing to be a pretty highly technical skill, and I'm in a very technical line of work that looks simple by comparison. So in my opinion, I should be compensated at or above the level of my other job for growing.

If you have no job, work experience, or basis for comparison it would be tougher to value your time, but I know of guys who spend 8 hours a day on their rooms, and others half that for the same setup. Tough to compare!

I am like any small business, I pay rent, power, wages and for upgrades before I get one cent for myself. I treat it like an investment that will pay dividends eventually, but initially there just isn't much (if any) profit to be had. If I don't take care of the room and my employees, there won't be a future crop to pay me.

 

[Greyskull]

Jesus. $4800 to produce a pound?

its really good buds grown with love

cant just put a seed in the dirt and expect diamonds.... you might get cucumubers. or crappy pot.... crappy pot is super easy to grow.

btw ever heard the phrase 'no rest for the wicked', EH????

am like any small business, I pay rent, power, wages and for upgrades before I get one cent for myself. I treat it like an investment that will pay dividends eventually, but initially there just isn't much (if any) profit to be had. If I don't take care of the room and my employees, there won't be a future crop to pay me.

well said my friend

 

[Emperor Herer]

If I only had a dollar for every time I heard that

If I only had a dollar for every time I heard that

I LOVE buds grown with love.

Yes and no, Greyskull and Lazyman. Not new to growing, just very new to efficiency and taking a psychotic look at the Canna-business model, as legal as humanly possible while working within state and federal guidelines bla bla bla...

Real world numbers are the only way to make decisions on this. "MY" numbers dont mean squat, I am not a botanist, long term hobbyist nor an experienced Cash Cropper. Just cuz I have growed my own doesn't mean I think I know what I am doing. But, like Albert Einstein and Henry Ford: I dont have to know how to do anything, sept find the guy that DOES know how!

My little box is just right for me and my use as it stands now.

There was a thread in the last few days about the Super Dispensaries taking over in California... Cutting out the Ma and Pa growers? Shafting the casual consumer? I dont know, but, there is no reason NOT to grow my own, or for anybody to not grow there own... It is just a matter of numbers...

Why has Macdonalds sold over a billion hamburgers? think it is because they have the BEST BURGERS?

Connivance and the price. Not everybody wants a three dollar hamburger, not everybody wants a dollar burger either. If I want a boutique burger, I'll go to Red Robin.

Bottom line, the fifteen dollar burger at R&R is pretty much the same stuff as the four dollar burger... or, the one dollar burger.

Still, I know, it is Apples and Oranges. But still, there is still some real life overlap that I can apply to a Canna Business...

Washington State has a fifteen plant maximum, and 24 ounce usable. If I got anywhere near being efficient, I could trade that off to other Medicinal Cannabis users.

Those of us that are on teh disabled list can not always afford a 100% markup to support the young and emergent energetic entrepreneur . However, most of us are smart enough to figure out how to 'grow our own' with any excesses being put back into the the Medicinal Cannabis Community- A Not For Profit model, that can work for those of us that dont buy Large anyway, legal for those that are and a stipend to those that have the time, space and ability to grow and share.

The key, I see, is replication and to be able to duplicate the turn-key model. Really, distribution would take care of its self; Start up, security and legal are the hard costs.



To expand on this line, would the Canna Business topic be better in Legal or still here in the Smokers Den?

Just a matter of taste.


But, what do I know.

I am just a cranky crazy cripple with to much time on his hands...


CCC see ya

 

[Emperor Herer]

I love it when a plan comes together

I love it when a plan comes together

Dear Lazyman, I love you, can I have your baby?
Love your signature dude.. reading till my eyes bleeded...

Some important information for those of us in The State of Washington...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=171933


Be there, meet and greet. "Meet your new boss, same as the old boss..." Rolling Stones




Ima happy with this thread, really good numbers off the poll... some very interesting input/distraction on everything but A-COP, but I needed to hear that part too.

Give a man a fish...:yay: ?!?

Teach a man to fish... ... yes

 

[Lazyman]

lol, glad it's useful to you, my fee is a picture of your boobs!
If you're a guy, then the deal is off! hahaha

 

[junior_grower]

I run a vertical sealed room. I am building a new one for a good friend/ new med patient based on same design I will be throwing up a log as we go if I find time. As for High efficiency both labor and electricity are key area that savings can be found. I have high efficiency ac, a PPM CO2 controller, good ballasts with good caps. In the world of labor my system is now down this,
1-add 36 plant's ( clones in 5x5 grodan cubes)
2-check water level and nutrient level
3-hit switch make sure pumps/ CO2 are working
3-close door and come back in 7-8 days
4-on visit quick tie and prune, nutrient top off and check ( every 2 weeks I do a flush)
5-repeat till day 56-? strain dependent.
6-harvest I walk in and pull plants with grodan cubes from system and lay them out
7-flush nutrient tank, add 1/2 cup of bleach and top off with tap water, run the system for 2 hrs. Wipe down room/ floor while waiting ( milder bleach solution). I then change bulbs/co2 tank (sometimes I get an extra week or two but not usually) . once two hrs are up I drain the system and refill with plain tap water run for 30 minutes and wipe pipes out and down as this goes on, once all is clean I go to Step 1

I can usually have all the plants out and new ones in, with a fan leaf trim done in a day. I have one buddie to help me trim and it done by hand over a 2-4 day period.


So if thats of any help then cool if not well I just finished sampling a few more of my nugs and I can say they are cured and taste great.

 

[Emperor Herer]

Junior_grower my hat is off. sorry Lazyman, no boobs for you; I gott big hunk of man love going on for Junior...

here, have a piece...

Did i read that right? come back in 7-8 days...

I am NOT at that stage... not the "I'm so busy I can only come back once a week'... No, I am not at the "leave them alone" stage. My fear is I will love my babies to death, I gota lock myself out of the cabinet!

I can not begin to fathom the time and experianc you have had to put one like that together.

Good deal... May I assume that is the model you based the 'hypothetical' numbers off of?

Mulit Mucho Granda Props

I will keep an eyeball out for the build. THAT i have got to be a part of as it is happening!

'36' is my max theoretical number of plants in my box... I may never need that many, even though there may be, legally, extenuating circumstances that would allow, but, it is nice to see a familiar number. But, conversly, I can see scaling up my mini box to room size, just make due with trees... twelve trees.. fifteen trees... but, I digress...

Thank you for the numbers and the mind picture that now goes with them!

My 'dream box' would be all that !!.. only tiny. itsy bitsy tiny non noticed little piece of furniture... or a room... I am SO wishy washy...



Like greyskull said. Its easy to grow crap weed.





Here, have another piece, have more pie too!

 

[supermanlives]

what weed , what money LOL . i dont keep track anymore

 

[junior_grower]

Those numbers are the room running now, to be legal and under the 42 plants total one needs to have room for a few mothers. ( clone time is when its sketchy).

The room took many oh shit what did I do, to get here I have rebuilt it many times but now its been a worry free 2 year stretch.

 

[Emperor Herer]

what weed , what money LOL . i dont keep track anymore

Have I showed you my orchids? Lovely plants. Easy to grow. Not much work, but it keeps my busy in the afternoon.

Supermanlives, yes, and yes.

There is a time and a place to sit back ind just live, letting the young men take on the burden of proof.

Here i was hoping to enjoy that slow slide into death... till I had an idea.


Peace and Luck Superman

 

[ninsega]

My last outdoor I did not need fertilizer, lights, or water. It came out to like $5/pound.

Indoor its roughly $400-800 a pound for me, depends if I just bought the setup or not.

 

[Emperor Herer]

Mornin' ninsega!

Man, I love them 'throw some seed' grows!

I know that for most everything I do just adding up the cost at the end tells me... how much it costs. It has taken a few interesting and creative business venture for me to see that finical strategy, planning and execution are my key to long term viability.

Failing to plan is planning to fail!

Peace out!

 

[reia]

Alright Herer, no one has answered your question straight up yet, so I'll take the liberty to. I spent a little while calculating all the costs for a start-up grower who plans to a)grow indoors, b)be stealthy, c)has good knowledge, and d)uses 400w lighting.

***Disclaimer*** This is a PURELY theoretical setup ***Disclaimer***


INITIAL COSTS "Set-up":

From GreenCoast Hydroponics:

4 Waterfarms (complete setup w/ nutes) [$53 ea = $212]
1 Lumatek Ballast with Yield Master - HPS 400w [$230]
1 Digital Timer [$20]
1 Uvonair Standard [$222]
25 Seedling Plugs [$7]
50 ft Mylar [$25]
Grow Lab 80 [$175]

Shipping [$120]
_______________________

~$1000

5 feminized skunk #1's seeds from sensi = $40
8 23w 5500k-6500k CFL's = $8 each = $64
Misc light sockets and power strips = $30
1 PH testing with PH up/down = $20
________________________

~$150


Now we have about $1150 invested BEFORE actually starting to grow. Then germinate seeds... assume at least 4 of the 5 germinate.

ENERGY BILL

VEG (1 MONTH of 20/4) : 30 days x 20 hours = 600 hours
Light (184w) = 110kw/hr @ $0.10/hr = $11
Misc Supplies (fans,timer,etc) (~25w) = 12kw/hr @ $0.10/hr = ~$1.50
Total: $12.50
Flower (8-10 weeks of 12/12) : 63 days x 12 hours = 756 hours
Light (400w) = 305kw/hr @ $0.10/hr = $30.50
Misc Supplies (24/7) (~30w) = ~23kw/hr = ~$2.50
Total: $33.00

TOTAL ENERGY BILL FOR ONE HARVEST: ~$50

I did not calculate water costs... it might be significant if you use only RO store water.


TOTAL COST FOR FIRST HARVEST: ~$1,200

This exercise was done assuming the grower is a stealthy indoor grower who knows what he is doing pretty well.
Assume yield of .50g/W = 200g = 7 oz

Thus, 1,200/7 = $171.43 per ounce, or about $2750 per pound.


However, assume we can also do the next FOUR grows with all the initial equipment, only needing to buy new NUTES and SEEDS and pay for ENERGY


SUBSEQUENT FOUR GROWS:

1 pint each of G.H. Flora: $34 shipped
5 new seeds: $40 shipped
Energy Bill: $50

~$125. Assume same yield .... then 125/7 = $18/ounce = ~$300/lb



~SUMMARY FOR FIRST FIVE GROWS~

Grow 1: ~$1200
Grow 2: ~$125
Grow 3: ~$125
Grow 4: ~$125
Grow 5: ~$125

Total cost for first 5 grows: ~$1700
Total yield for first 5 grows: ~35 ounces

A-COP for first 5 grows: $48.57/oz or $777/lb

 

[250wscrogger]

It cost me $4000 to get the equipment for my 4k stadium including enough nutrients to do 4 crops.
Total cost of the first round including startup+3 months of $400 electric bills:$5200
If I pull 6lbs off the first round thats $870/lb

After the first round it's only $125 per crop for 5 bales of pro-mix hp, $330 for bulbs every 3 crops, $250 for nutes every 4 crops and finally a $400/month electric bill.
Total cost per crop: $1500
ACOP: $250/lb for a 6lb crop, $190/lb if I can manage to pull 8lbs.

I used to spend that every much week buying smoke before I started growing...