not scared either
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
The Organic Think Tank
- Thread starter NiteTiger
- Start date
not scared either
If you're not worried, you're not paying attention:
Therefore, by 2039, there may be only 0.53 acres of arable land per person, world-wide (i.e. 6.865 billion acres / 13 billion people).
At the current rate of loss of 38,610 square miles per year of arable land, and even if the population didn't grow any larger, ALL arable land could be lost in only 310 years (12 million square miles / 38,610 square miles per year)!
A 75% drop in arable land doesn't worry you? What would?
Therefore, by 2039, there may be only 0.53 acres of arable land per person, world-wide (i.e. 6.865 billion acres / 13 billion people).
At the current rate of loss of 38,610 square miles per year of arable land, and even if the population didn't grow any larger, ALL arable land could be lost in only 310 years (12 million square miles / 38,610 square miles per year)!
A 75% drop in arable land doesn't worry you? What would?
Well since you've got all the land, and all the know-how, please feed the world.
Sincerely,
Earth
Over the decades and centuries, farmers have become more and more efficient. so efficient in fact that this efficiency is the main reason large cities have become so large and people, who just 2 generations ago were living on the farm, are now working in marketing (or whatever) in the city.
Why would this scare me? Those who can afford to eat wil eat. Those that cannot, will not. And the earth will hiccup.
In any event, I believe we will become more efficient still.
The "key" word in your post is the word "could". This is straight out of "treehugger". No facts, just a bunch of "maybes".
R
RNDZL
Rhizosphere was defined 100 years ago, We are just starting to scratch the surface of understanding the biology and its interactions
if we eat mother nature how can we now know how she works and how come we can do it gracefully (aka without pollution and environmental imbalance)
science is still trying to develop the proper process of uncovering the unknown biology and interactions in the Rhizosphere
we cannot qualify or quantify what we can or cannot do until we truly understand it
The plant and microbial partners
Plants respond to microorganisms with the activation of a set of diverse genes. The response is either confined locally to the place of infection and/or can lead to systemic resistance in distant plant parts. In the acquisition of plant resistance, the produced enzymes and concomitant metabolites play a central role in the defense of pathogens and the development of plant health and quality.
The project focuses on barley (Hordeum vulgare), the transcriptome of which has now been extensively characterized, and (in some model studies) on Arabidopsis thaliana. The interaction of these plants with microbes in the rhizosphere will be studied on transcriptional and metabolomic levels. Array technologies will be applied in transcriptional analysis of genes involved in induced resistance and cluster studies will be performed. Screening of response mutants will reveal new components of signal reception and the signal cascade triggered by the contact rhizosphere microbes. Of particular interest is the mutual relationship of biotic and abiotic stimuli in the plant responses, which may have synergistic or inhibitory effects towards the development of local and systemic stress resistance in the plant. In this context, the metabolism of thiols and S-containing conjugates influencing the homoeostasis of the redox-potential and stabilization of proteins and the detoxification potential is of great interest. (Images: www.biolib.de, GSF-IBOE/EUS)
Certain microorganisms within the diverse soil microflora are able to interact specifically with plant roots. In the genus Burkholderia, many root associated bacteria (plant protective or pathogenic) but also human pathogens are known. It has recently been found, that signaling molecules of the N-acylhomoserine type also trigger responses similar to induced systemic resistance in plant roots. In Gramineae, like barley, the pathogenic fungus Gaeumannomyces graminis (Gg) plays a major role. It is known, that specific rhizobacteria are able to act as biological control agents of the fungal pathogen through a couple of different secondary metabolites. Based on cDNA clone bancs of suppressive soils, the microbial diversity of the antagonistic potential against Gg will be exploited. In addition, a specific interaction of the bacteria and the fungus with the plant is important in the development of virulence and pathogenesis. The knowledge about the genomes of several Burkholderia and Pseudomonas and other root associated or pathogenic bacteria enables new quality of interaction studies based on transcriptional analysis as well as on the use of specific knockout mutants. Integrative measurements at transcript and metabolite levels will further characterize interactive processes in the rhizosphere.
Using specific fluorescence tagging methods, the microbial partners and some selected microbial in situ activities will be localized in a single cell resolution on the rhizoplane in confocal laser scanning microscopic (CLSM) studies.
Chemical analysis of the interaction (nano-analytics)
Metabolites of all interacting partners (plants, microbes, soil) occur in the rhizosphere, which constitutes the chemical scenario of activation or inhibition (gene activation and control of metabolic and signaling pathways). Besides known signaling compounds of the plants like salicylic acid, jasmonic acids and flavonoids, also novel components of early response mediators or of S-containing metabolites may have protective or signaling functions inside and/or outside the roots. On the microbial side, a variety of secondary compounds, like antibiotics of different chemical nature, siderophores or specific signaling molecules, like phytohormones or N-acylhomoserine lactones are excreted to interact with other microbes or the plant. These compounds induce specific gene expression in neighbouring microbes and the root, initiating specific responses. Also the soil environment contributes to the metabolic scenario of the root/soil interface through water soluble compounds liberated from the high molecular organic soil matrix (see also "quorum sensing"). (Images: GSF-AMP)
In order to identify and quantify signaling molecules of known and hitherto unknown structure in the rhizosphere and within the organisms, new and highly selective and sensitive methodological approaches needs to be established. For this purpose, microcolumn separation techniques will be hyphenated to the ultrahigh resolving Fourier transform ion cyclotron mass spectrometer (FTICR-MS)to determine exact molecular masses of and chemical formulae for compounds in complex mixtures of low and high molecular weight molecules. The high routine sensitivity makes even the analysis of metabolites in single cells possible. The isotopic information obtained for molecules of up to 60.000 amu can be exploited to extract further metabolic and regulatory informations. Mass selective detectors with nanospray interfaces and NMR-spectroscopy will be applied for structural analysis of novel compounds. (Images: GSF-IÖC)
Mathematical modelling and bioinformatic analysis of organismic interactions in the rhizosphere
The aim is space-time modeling of functional interactions of organisms (plant, rhizosphere bacteria, pathogenic fungus) in the rhizosphere on the basis of data on specific gene expression and metabolomic (FTICR-MS) as well as on laser scanning microscopic localization (CLSM) data. The bioinformatic component will provide thoroughly analyzed and annotated genomic and transcriptomic data for the respective organisms. This will serve as a basis for the handling and in depth analysis of the complex and scale-free structure of biological networks. Integrative analysis of experimentally acquired data will elucidate complex signal and metabolic cascades taking place between species in the rhizosphere by an integrative molecular view on signal generation, perception and crosstalk embedded in the respective molecular networks.
Statistical and mathematical methods of the analysis of high-dimensional data have to be further developed and applied such as stochastic models of the Gibbs type and point process methods, to qualitatively and quantitatively evaluate the structural and functional diversity as well as the spatial relationship of the interacting partners in the rhizosphere. Since the interactions occur in different dimensions of different characteristics, the modeling has to occur in the micro-, meso- and macroscale. Besides stochastic models in the microscale, deterministic models will be developed for the meso- and macro-dimensions. They are based on conservation equations and lead to nonlinear diffusion-reaction equations and to dynamical systems. This results in semi-quantitative modeling of subsystems, which are validated by the experimental data.
if we eat mother nature how can we now know how she works and how come we can do it gracefully (aka without pollution and environmental imbalance)
science is still trying to develop the proper process of uncovering the unknown biology and interactions in the Rhizosphere
we cannot qualify or quantify what we can or cannot do until we truly understand it
The plant and microbial partners
Plants respond to microorganisms with the activation of a set of diverse genes. The response is either confined locally to the place of infection and/or can lead to systemic resistance in distant plant parts. In the acquisition of plant resistance, the produced enzymes and concomitant metabolites play a central role in the defense of pathogens and the development of plant health and quality.
The project focuses on barley (Hordeum vulgare), the transcriptome of which has now been extensively characterized, and (in some model studies) on Arabidopsis thaliana. The interaction of these plants with microbes in the rhizosphere will be studied on transcriptional and metabolomic levels. Array technologies will be applied in transcriptional analysis of genes involved in induced resistance and cluster studies will be performed. Screening of response mutants will reveal new components of signal reception and the signal cascade triggered by the contact rhizosphere microbes. Of particular interest is the mutual relationship of biotic and abiotic stimuli in the plant responses, which may have synergistic or inhibitory effects towards the development of local and systemic stress resistance in the plant. In this context, the metabolism of thiols and S-containing conjugates influencing the homoeostasis of the redox-potential and stabilization of proteins and the detoxification potential is of great interest. (Images: www.biolib.de, GSF-IBOE/EUS)
Certain microorganisms within the diverse soil microflora are able to interact specifically with plant roots. In the genus Burkholderia, many root associated bacteria (plant protective or pathogenic) but also human pathogens are known. It has recently been found, that signaling molecules of the N-acylhomoserine type also trigger responses similar to induced systemic resistance in plant roots. In Gramineae, like barley, the pathogenic fungus Gaeumannomyces graminis (Gg) plays a major role. It is known, that specific rhizobacteria are able to act as biological control agents of the fungal pathogen through a couple of different secondary metabolites. Based on cDNA clone bancs of suppressive soils, the microbial diversity of the antagonistic potential against Gg will be exploited. In addition, a specific interaction of the bacteria and the fungus with the plant is important in the development of virulence and pathogenesis. The knowledge about the genomes of several Burkholderia and Pseudomonas and other root associated or pathogenic bacteria enables new quality of interaction studies based on transcriptional analysis as well as on the use of specific knockout mutants. Integrative measurements at transcript and metabolite levels will further characterize interactive processes in the rhizosphere.
Using specific fluorescence tagging methods, the microbial partners and some selected microbial in situ activities will be localized in a single cell resolution on the rhizoplane in confocal laser scanning microscopic (CLSM) studies.
Chemical analysis of the interaction (nano-analytics)
Metabolites of all interacting partners (plants, microbes, soil) occur in the rhizosphere, which constitutes the chemical scenario of activation or inhibition (gene activation and control of metabolic and signaling pathways). Besides known signaling compounds of the plants like salicylic acid, jasmonic acids and flavonoids, also novel components of early response mediators or of S-containing metabolites may have protective or signaling functions inside and/or outside the roots. On the microbial side, a variety of secondary compounds, like antibiotics of different chemical nature, siderophores or specific signaling molecules, like phytohormones or N-acylhomoserine lactones are excreted to interact with other microbes or the plant. These compounds induce specific gene expression in neighbouring microbes and the root, initiating specific responses. Also the soil environment contributes to the metabolic scenario of the root/soil interface through water soluble compounds liberated from the high molecular organic soil matrix (see also "quorum sensing"). (Images: GSF-AMP)
In order to identify and quantify signaling molecules of known and hitherto unknown structure in the rhizosphere and within the organisms, new and highly selective and sensitive methodological approaches needs to be established. For this purpose, microcolumn separation techniques will be hyphenated to the ultrahigh resolving Fourier transform ion cyclotron mass spectrometer (FTICR-MS)to determine exact molecular masses of and chemical formulae for compounds in complex mixtures of low and high molecular weight molecules. The high routine sensitivity makes even the analysis of metabolites in single cells possible. The isotopic information obtained for molecules of up to 60.000 amu can be exploited to extract further metabolic and regulatory informations. Mass selective detectors with nanospray interfaces and NMR-spectroscopy will be applied for structural analysis of novel compounds. (Images: GSF-IÖC)
Mathematical modelling and bioinformatic analysis of organismic interactions in the rhizosphere
The aim is space-time modeling of functional interactions of organisms (plant, rhizosphere bacteria, pathogenic fungus) in the rhizosphere on the basis of data on specific gene expression and metabolomic (FTICR-MS) as well as on laser scanning microscopic localization (CLSM) data. The bioinformatic component will provide thoroughly analyzed and annotated genomic and transcriptomic data for the respective organisms. This will serve as a basis for the handling and in depth analysis of the complex and scale-free structure of biological networks. Integrative analysis of experimentally acquired data will elucidate complex signal and metabolic cascades taking place between species in the rhizosphere by an integrative molecular view on signal generation, perception and crosstalk embedded in the respective molecular networks.
Statistical and mathematical methods of the analysis of high-dimensional data have to be further developed and applied such as stochastic models of the Gibbs type and point process methods, to qualitatively and quantitatively evaluate the structural and functional diversity as well as the spatial relationship of the interacting partners in the rhizosphere. Since the interactions occur in different dimensions of different characteristics, the modeling has to occur in the micro-, meso- and macroscale. Besides stochastic models in the microscale, deterministic models will be developed for the meso- and macro-dimensions. They are based on conservation equations and lead to nonlinear diffusion-reaction equations and to dynamical systems. This results in semi-quantitative modeling of subsystems, which are validated by the experimental data.
R
RNDZL
Unravelling rhizosphere–microbial interactions: opportunities and limitations
Brajesh K. Singh1, , Peter Millard1, Andrew S. Whiteley2 and J.Colin Murrell3
1Environmental Sciences, Macaulay Institute, Craigiebuckler, Aberdeen, UK AB15 8QH
2Centre for Ecology and Hydrology, Oxford, UK OX1 3SR
3Department of Biological Sciences, University of Warwick, Coventry, UK CV4 7AL
Available online 1 July 2004.
Abstract
The rhizosphere is a biologically active zone of the soil around plant roots that contains soil-borne microbes including bacteria and fungi. Plant–microbe interactions in the rhizosphere can be beneficial to the plant, the microbes or to neither of them. One of the major difficulties that plant biologists and microbiologists face when studying these interactions is that many groups of microbes that inhabit this zone are not cultivable in the laboratory. Recent developments in molecular biology methods are shedding some light on rhizospheric microbial diversity. This review discusses recent findings and future challenges in the study of plant–microbe interactions in the rhizosphere.
Article Outline
1. Rhizodeposition and microbial activity
2. Nutrient cycling
3. Carbon sinks
4. Other functions
5. Unraveling plant–microbe interactions in the rhizosphere
6. Novel methods linking plant–microbial interactions
7. Final remarks and future research
Acknowledgements
References
Brajesh K. Singh1, , Peter Millard1, Andrew S. Whiteley2 and J.Colin Murrell3
1Environmental Sciences, Macaulay Institute, Craigiebuckler, Aberdeen, UK AB15 8QH
2Centre for Ecology and Hydrology, Oxford, UK OX1 3SR
3Department of Biological Sciences, University of Warwick, Coventry, UK CV4 7AL
Available online 1 July 2004.
Abstract
The rhizosphere is a biologically active zone of the soil around plant roots that contains soil-borne microbes including bacteria and fungi. Plant–microbe interactions in the rhizosphere can be beneficial to the plant, the microbes or to neither of them. One of the major difficulties that plant biologists and microbiologists face when studying these interactions is that many groups of microbes that inhabit this zone are not cultivable in the laboratory. Recent developments in molecular biology methods are shedding some light on rhizospheric microbial diversity. This review discusses recent findings and future challenges in the study of plant–microbe interactions in the rhizosphere.
Article Outline
1. Rhizodeposition and microbial activity
2. Nutrient cycling
3. Carbon sinks
4. Other functions
5. Unraveling plant–microbe interactions in the rhizosphere
6. Novel methods linking plant–microbial interactions
7. Final remarks and future research
Acknowledgements
References
R
RNDZL
A little vision casting for you guys convinced you understand it all
Taking a natural world, and re-engineering it so you can use just elements to grow flora, can be likened to civil war surgery in its efficiency and relative place in plant science
if you think killing all life and making a place sterile so you can get max bio-mass as the pinnacle of our capacity to work with nature and get the most interacting with the biological world you are wrong and short sighted
I can site world record crop harvest and production using organics, tht this is indeed the growing trend, organics is and will be the incumbent science of the future
WHY
because thinking we knew more than mother nature is what caused the kansas dust bowl and all the other degradation to balanced ecosystems that existed for MILLENNIUM before us
we are evolutions self monitoring apex creature, the evolution permeation of which we obviously designed with the capacity to sense balance and maintain it
minds that are sharply focused on one facet of agriculture will get stuck on non relative experience to paint the whole of the future of agriculture cause we already know it all
or because the perceived loss of ego we suffer when we feel our body of knowledge is less than those around us, as to say in some way we internalize and equate this to reflect our value as human being
claiming complete understanding because you posses a static truth in a dynamic world is does not provide an array of truth in computational equations unless all factors are relative to your personal experience
we have identified less than 1% of the microbiology in the soil and how it interacts with plants
new bacterias are being discovered, studied and put to market
i did some due diligence and research and was very surprised by the findings
just look at how hard the paradigm of "others" findings effect how we deploy our own techniques
and what was some of the most sound advice about breaking through grow barriers, came from Tom earlier on
THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX
Taking a natural world, and re-engineering it so you can use just elements to grow flora, can be likened to civil war surgery in its efficiency and relative place in plant science
if you think killing all life and making a place sterile so you can get max bio-mass as the pinnacle of our capacity to work with nature and get the most interacting with the biological world you are wrong and short sighted
I can site world record crop harvest and production using organics, tht this is indeed the growing trend, organics is and will be the incumbent science of the future
WHY
because thinking we knew more than mother nature is what caused the kansas dust bowl and all the other degradation to balanced ecosystems that existed for MILLENNIUM before us
we are evolutions self monitoring apex creature, the evolution permeation of which we obviously designed with the capacity to sense balance and maintain it
minds that are sharply focused on one facet of agriculture will get stuck on non relative experience to paint the whole of the future of agriculture cause we already know it all
or because the perceived loss of ego we suffer when we feel our body of knowledge is less than those around us, as to say in some way we internalize and equate this to reflect our value as human being
claiming complete understanding because you posses a static truth in a dynamic world is does not provide an array of truth in computational equations unless all factors are relative to your personal experience
we have identified less than 1% of the microbiology in the soil and how it interacts with plants
new bacterias are being discovered, studied and put to market
i did some due diligence and research and was very surprised by the findings
just look at how hard the paradigm of "others" findings effect how we deploy our own techniques
and what was some of the most sound advice about breaking through grow barriers, came from Tom earlier on
THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX
R
RNDZL
lets go down the rabbit hole with a cpl bacteria to start
Plant–rhizobacteria interactions alleviate abiotic stress conditions
CHRISTIAN DIMKPA 1 , TANJA WEINAND 2 & FOLKARD ASCH 2
1 Institute of Microbiology, Friedrich Schiller University, Neugasse 25, 07743, Jena, Germany, and 2 Institute of Crop Production and Agroecology in the Tropics and Subtropics, University of Hohenheim, Garbenstr. 13, 70599 Stuttgart, Germany
Correspondence to F. Asch. Fax: +4971145924207; e-mail: fa@uni-hohenheim.de
KEYWORDS
Bacillus spp. • ACC, auxins • cross-protection • PGPRs • plant hormones
ABSTRACT
Root-colonizing non-pathogenic bacteria can increase plant resistance to biotic and abiotic stress factors. Bacterial inoculates have been applied as biofertilizers and can increase the effectiveness of phytoremediation.
Inoculating plants with non-pathogenic bacteria can provide 'bioprotection' against biotic stresses, and some root-colonizing bacteria increase tolerance against abiotic stresses such as drought, salinity and metal toxicity.
Systematic identification of bacterial strains providing cross-protection against multiple stressors would be highly valuable for agricultural production in changing environmental conditions. For bacterial cross-protection to be an effective tool, a better understanding of the underlying morphological, physiological and molecular mechanisms of bacterially mediated stress tolerance, and the phenomenon of cross-protection is critical. Beneficial bacteria-mediated plant gene expression studies under non-stress conditions or during pathogenic rhizobacteria–plant interactions are plentiful, but only few molecular studies on beneficial interactions under abiotic stress situations have been reported. Thus, here we attempt an overview of current knowledge on physiological impacts and modes of action of bacterial mitigation of abiotic stress symptoms in plants. Where available, molecular data will be provided to support physiological or morphological observations. We indicate further research avenues to enable better use of cross-protection capacities of root-colonizing non-pathogenic bacteria in agricultural production systems affected by a changing climate.
Received 31 May 2009; received in revised form 15 July 2009; accepted for publication 15 July 2009
DIGITAL OBJECT IDENTIFIER (DOI)
10.1111/j.1365-3040.2009.02028.x About DOI
Plant–rhizobacteria interactions alleviate abiotic stress conditions
CHRISTIAN DIMKPA 1 , TANJA WEINAND 2 & FOLKARD ASCH 2
1 Institute of Microbiology, Friedrich Schiller University, Neugasse 25, 07743, Jena, Germany, and 2 Institute of Crop Production and Agroecology in the Tropics and Subtropics, University of Hohenheim, Garbenstr. 13, 70599 Stuttgart, Germany
Correspondence to F. Asch. Fax: +4971145924207; e-mail: fa@uni-hohenheim.de
KEYWORDS
Bacillus spp. • ACC, auxins • cross-protection • PGPRs • plant hormones
ABSTRACT
Root-colonizing non-pathogenic bacteria can increase plant resistance to biotic and abiotic stress factors. Bacterial inoculates have been applied as biofertilizers and can increase the effectiveness of phytoremediation.
Inoculating plants with non-pathogenic bacteria can provide 'bioprotection' against biotic stresses, and some root-colonizing bacteria increase tolerance against abiotic stresses such as drought, salinity and metal toxicity.
Systematic identification of bacterial strains providing cross-protection against multiple stressors would be highly valuable for agricultural production in changing environmental conditions. For bacterial cross-protection to be an effective tool, a better understanding of the underlying morphological, physiological and molecular mechanisms of bacterially mediated stress tolerance, and the phenomenon of cross-protection is critical. Beneficial bacteria-mediated plant gene expression studies under non-stress conditions or during pathogenic rhizobacteria–plant interactions are plentiful, but only few molecular studies on beneficial interactions under abiotic stress situations have been reported. Thus, here we attempt an overview of current knowledge on physiological impacts and modes of action of bacterial mitigation of abiotic stress symptoms in plants. Where available, molecular data will be provided to support physiological or morphological observations. We indicate further research avenues to enable better use of cross-protection capacities of root-colonizing non-pathogenic bacteria in agricultural production systems affected by a changing climate.
Received 31 May 2009; received in revised form 15 July 2009; accepted for publication 15 July 2009
DIGITAL OBJECT IDENTIFIER (DOI)
10.1111/j.1365-3040.2009.02028.x About DOI
cannaboy
Member
Not to burst your bubble or make the sky blue again.. But I do and will do just not gonna feed twats.. never will or have!!
The usa and australlia has wasted so much time!!!
And because people can't use pretection or teach about overpopulation Keep their Dick in their pants,, Its not my problem I will only feed the UK or its a waste of a good product and Petrol. If they starve so be it. there money lords should feed them.. I want less population and more plants less people... Then we can do good but it is a struggle made my the powers that be,, and they can't just say well were in the shit and we need to feed the 5000 with a different story than jesus this time wee'l use chemicles and grow them on the MOON.
If a plant gets 100% of everything it needs from the nutrition I supply... but there is some other something which the plant could utilize... that some other something is not worth adding unless it makes measurable difference in volume or quality.
A difference that makes no difference might as well be no difference.
I notice a lot of the papers use language like "Root-colonizing non-pathogenic bacteria can increase plant resistance to biotic and abiotic stress factors"
Not that it DOES... Not that it is routinely shown to... only that it can... sometimes... for some species.
I personally see no need to stop doing something I know works well, to try something that might work as well or slightly better (but not measurable so).
A difference that makes no difference might as well be no difference.
I notice a lot of the papers use language like "Root-colonizing non-pathogenic bacteria can increase plant resistance to biotic and abiotic stress factors"
Not that it DOES... Not that it is routinely shown to... only that it can... sometimes... for some species.
I personally see no need to stop doing something I know works well, to try something that might work as well or slightly better (but not measurable so).
Yeah... Except the British empire should also be responsible for restoring the third world nations she's raped and pillaged, so you gotta feed them too.
toohighmf
So would a source of mono-potassium phosphate (0-52-34) @ $73.00 for 50 lbs. be a fair price?
What mixing ratio would you want to use?
Just curious.
CC
the problem w/ the "disappearing arable land" theory is:
IF it's disappearing (it probably is) it's because:
a) it's not being resourced properly
which is the same as
b) it's being depleted by "conventional" ag
organic methods build up the soil and convert "non-arable" land to arable.
IF it's disappearing (it probably is) it's because:
a) it's not being resourced properly
which is the same as
b) it's being depleted by "conventional" ag
organic methods build up the soil and convert "non-arable" land to arable.
toohighmf
Hmmmmmmmmm...........
I was just waxing philosophically about an interesting idea for a project. All I need is a graphic artist. I've already got a name - Panther Piss
BTW - are you familiar with the scam used in some nutrient products, i.e. Banana Oil (Isoamyl acetate).
Heh..................
CC
I believe it's a N source in organics. it's not in salt ferts. I been joking for years about how clever marketing and a marginal product makes millions. well, I wasn't joking actually
1 ton of that 0-52-34 in the right can and label, can make you some decent money. put out a potent potassium silicate, some neem, mollases, kelp, and you got an additive line, my friend! market it for Cannabis and you'll be sending me post cards from your ocean villa some place real nice in 5 years.. back on topic. I don't want to clutter this thread up.
1 ton of that 0-52-34 in the right can and label, can make you some decent money. put out a potent potassium silicate, some neem, mollases, kelp, and you got an additive line, my friend! market it for Cannabis and you'll be sending me post cards from your ocean villa some place real nice in 5 years.. back on topic. I don't want to clutter this thread up.
I don't beleive RNDZL is saying that. He is just trying to inform you that there is a vast unknown, which needs to be studied. When you say my way is the best that is all there is to it, then you thwart any future advances in the area of study (figuratively speaking of course, as you arent the one in the laboratory). Just because you maybe experienceing higher yeilds, easier, with salts, doesn't mean that it can't be obtained using organics, as there is A LOT of unkown's in interactions within the soil web, which, with further research, may allow the same ease of high yeilds, without ecological harm.
