Help Me Turn My Attic into a Grow Space!

[B. Self Reliant]

I recently bought a new home. It’s an older home that was built in the 1930’s. I would like to set up an indoor grow that is just large enough to keep me from dealing with the black market, but unfortunately I’m not in SoCal anymore, so things have to be a little more stealthy than they were in my old garden. It’s not going to be as easy as throwing up a couple 600’s over some 3x3 ebb & flow trays and harvesting 58 days later! I’d like to have a flowering area that uses a couple of 600’s or maybe even a few 400’s since height will be an issue.

The basement of my home would be the ideal spot, except for the fact that my home is only about 1000 sq. ft. and everyone who comes over to my place would know something was up if I avoided bringing them in the basement. If I do grow the basement it will be a hit and run type of thing for a quick crop when no one will be by for a while, but a sustained grow is out of the question.

Right now I see the entryway to the attic-like area upstairs as my only option. I’ve read through SpasticGramp’s attic buildout as well as bender’s attic thread. Both were incredible, but unfortunately my space is more like Bender’s. . . tight and cramped but doable.
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EDIT: A NEW (INSULATED) SPACE WAS CHOSEN. THIS IS WHAT I'VE GOT GOING ON IN THE SPACE THAT I EVENTUALLY SETTLED ON. CATCH UP BY JUMPING TO POST #19.

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I’ll show you all some pics, then I’ll let you know what I need help with!

This is the entrance to the attic-like area behind the knee walls. The whole upper floor of the 1.5 story house is a single small bedroom. You can only stand up straight in the middle of the room due to the slope of the roof. Other than my bed & a small walk-in closet there’s nothing up there, so no one has any business going upstairs except me. The room is long and narrow with triangular crawl spaces behind the side walls. The door pictured here leads to a decent sized entryway (which is what I’m hoping to turn into my grow space) before curving around to the right in order to provide access to the area behind the knee wall.

This is what it looks like when you open it up. I’ve cleaned it out quite a bit with a shop vac, but it’s still pretty gnarly. The area on the end of the house pictured here is 32” deep & 67” tall at the highest point. It’s 126” long, but that’s measuring out far enough to the sides where the roof seriously impedes the headspace I have to work with. But, even if I bring it in by 24” on each side to keep the headspace adequate, i still have over 6 feet of length to the room, so that’s just what I’ll have to work with. I’ve certainly grown smaller spaces, but the dimensions will certainly limit my options. I really only NEED to flower under a single 600, but I’m trying to set myself up here, not barely scrape by!

This is what you see when standing in the doorway and looking left.

This is a close-up of the far left side. The wall on the left is my room wall, the wall on the right is an exterior wall of the house, & behind that triangular board on the left is the other crawl space (accessible through a different hobbit-sized door).

This is what you see when standing in the doorway and looking right. As you can see, the crawl space on this side of the house is connected to the entryway area that I want to grow. There’s no separation like on the left side.

This is what you see as you peek around the corner to the right. At each end of the crawl space there’s a vent that is supposed to allow the area to be the same temp as outside at any given time, but needless to say there’s not much air flow and it’s always hooter or cooler than outside. I’m assuming that if I grow the entryway a wall will need to go up here to block off this area, just like the other side.

This is what the floor currently looks like. There’s boards near the entryway, but after that it’s insulation laid out with nothing over it. I temporarily put old boards down in order to explore.

This is what the walls and the ceiling look like. Looks like the roofing material is right on the other side of those ceiling boards, but I’ve never done any roofing so I don’t know for sure.

What I need help with is setting up the room itself. I know enough about the plants and different growing methods, etc to figure that stuff out later. I’m not even thinking about what medium I’ll grow in or how many plants per square foot I’ll have, etc. I’m already intimidated!

I talked to the home inspector about the load bearing potential of the areas shown in the images, and basically what he said was that if the upstairs was finished like mine, the area can hold weight. So, I’m assuming that the ability to bear weight isn’t an issue. I’m not going to put a 40 gallon res up there, but I’m not going to worry about a few plants and a small reservoir for the run-off unless someone here tells me otherwise.

Here’s where I need some good suggestions! I somehow need to block off that end area from the long crawl space that it’s attached to, while still maintaining circulation within the crawl space. Especially if I have a grow in that entry area, I need to be sure to maintain excellent circulation so the adjacent crawl space doesn’t get damp. How should one handle that? If I install a roof vent in the actual grow area for my exhaust, and I use the vent that’s already there as an intake, then I’m short one vent for the crawl space that will now be partitioned off. Driving me crazy!

Also, in addition to making accommodations for inlet & exhaust, I also need to think about insulating the area that will actually be grown. Is that a bad thing? Common sense would tell me that if I keep the humidity under control in the grow area (adequate circulation or a dehumidifier), insulating the area shouldn’t do any damage to the house in terms of moisture, right? What if I put up insulation, but then only grow and climate control the area during part of the year? Will that allow moisture to build up behind the walls I put up (inside the insulation)?

If someone can tell me how to properly insulate the area, that would be killer! I’m dying to get started & get my hands dirty. Can I just staple gun rolls up on the ceiling and the then cover it with those hard sheets of reflective foil insulation? Do I have to worry about moisture getting behind there once it’s all up?

The last issue for now is the floor. Again, my main concern is moisture. I don’t want to rot my new home in order to grow a few pounds of bud of the course of the next couple years, ya know? If I put floor boards down can I put plastic down too? What type of plywood sheeting is typically used for flooring in an attic type area?

There’s certainly other issue that need to be addressed, but for now these are my main concerns. I have a feeling these plants will be hand watered, and the amount of run-off they’ll produce can be hauled downstairs to the toilet or deep sink without much difficulty. So, I’m not worried about plumbing for now. I’m fairly comfortable running a 20 amp circuit from my main panel, so that won’t be an issue either.

Please help me! I know this is going to be a huge job as well as a large investment, but I own the home and it’s a very private spot within the home, so I’m willing to do it if AT ALL possible.

All suggestions are welcome!

 

[B. Self Reliant]

No one has ANY advice or recommendations about how to properly insulate a space like this?!

 

[PermaBuzz]

You'll for sure need to insulate that puppy well and preferably NOT with fibreglass batts.
Make a room within the attic space out of some sheetrock and 2x4's (or even 2x2's) and
and foamboard. Foamboard is much better than fibreglass in every way except price.

The right way to make the layer of foamboard airtight along all seams. Caulk it, tape it etc. the growroom needs to be sealed off from the rest of the space. If its not perfectly sealed, it might be still OK but there will be more moisture buildup in the crevices and roof woodwork as well as being drafty. Foamboard is flammable. Cover it with sheetrock.

You could use fibreglass batts but make extra sure that a plastic vapor barrier is perfectly installed on the inside/warm side of the wall.

Even with good insulation, you will still experiuence temp. extremes. You may need a space heater during cold spells. A flip flop setup might be a good idea.

If not sure about loading strength of the joists, put a couple 2x6's or somethin spread out across several joists to spread the load out.

If the attic ventilation is decent, you may be able to exhaust directly into the attic space and then let it dissipate through your ridge/gable vents. Stealthier that way.

Drawing the intake air from the basement or crawlspace is also somethin to consider if its cooler than the summertime outdoor air.

Good luck, you'll need it. I made an attic grow work out, but its an uphill battle in every way.

 

[Hovz]

congrats on the house, i have a couple suggestions. For flooring use at least 5/8" plywood. If i had that space i would probably insulate the part you plan to use, and install a vapor barrier of plastic to make sure no moisture gets through and rots ur boards, then drywall over that because its fireproof properties. For the floor you could probably just laydown plywood but i think you should make sure its well supported and you might have to add a couple boards to strengthen some spots up or give you something to nail/screw to. You might want to drywall the plywood wall too just to make sure its all fireproof, 3/8 drywall is cheap and easier to work with. To section off a part of the crawlspace i would use 2x4's and just frame up a wall and insulate and vapor barrier then drywall just like you did with the ceiling. Remember to frame a spot for your hobbit sized door. I would maybe try to redo those wires because usually they are put through the boards so they can be hid behind the wall. Remember expanding spray foam and caulking is your friend. For ventilation i would just vent from your space to outside and draw fresh air in from your other crawlspace. Or you could vent to your other crawlspace and bring in the fresh c02 from outside and if your worried about moisture in your other crawlspace just put a dehumidifier in there. Hope all this makes sense, can't wait to see what you do.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Looks like you have a decent area to grow in. I think it's going to be tough to get a couple 600s in there though, especially if you need room for mothers and a clone area.

Have you seen my attic build out?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=157787

I had to re-arrange some things up there to fit the room, which is 4'x6' for the flower area with 28" tall side walls and 3 400s. The main room is 6'x5' and about the same height on the side walls.

My business is slow during the winter so I haven't been able to really finish it like I want to, but in a few weeks I'll be getting everything and setting it up properly. My a/c for the room crapped out a week after my harvest.

I don't know how hot it gets where you live. You have a basement so I would assume your north of the mason/dixon.

I would say figure out how much vertical space you will need and that will decide how wide you room will be. When you have an enclosed room in the attic, you need plenty of ventilation around it, at least in the summer anyways. A passive vent isn't enough.

First thing would be to put a stable floor up there, then get wired up properly, build your sidewalls and ceiling except for the end wall facing that passive vent. I would build a stand for a small window unit so you can have room to collect the condensate and drain it somewhere properly. Put a thermostatically controlled fan on that passive vent and make a new intake on the opposite end of the attic space, probably in the roof. Since your limited vertically, you probably won't be able to run ebb and flow, unless you plan on running a mostly indica strain that can finish well at 12".

For insulation, look up prodex.

Thats just how I would do it, do whatever you want.

 

[bipotato]

You'll probably want insulation with foil facing, like rigid foam insulation, Reflectix, or even fiberglass batts w/ foil facing.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

PermaBuzz - Thanks for the help. Huge help for sure. I didn't even consider venting into or pulling air from the crawl space areas. Definitely something to consider. That would mean I wouldn't have to worry about venting those areas separately because the positive/negative pressure along with the vents that are already there would constantly cycle the air in those areas. Unfortunately I would also have to vent humid air into the crawl space which I'm not too stoked on. I'm not sure how to properly put up a vapor barrier, but I'm sure I can figure it out.

Hovz - Very helpful! So you're saying the best way to make that room growable is to just all out finish it like any other climate controlled room except with a vapor barrier and a shit load of expanding foam? Can you clarify the part about supporting with boards. . . what is it that could possibly need more support? I just took the inspector's word for it because I don't know much about it, but this is long-term thing for me so I wanna do it right. 3/8" drywall it is. The wiring back there is all fucked up and it's going to get re-done when I run a dedicated 20 amp circuit up to the new room. I think I'll vent outside, hopefully through a new roof vent, and then pull my air from the newly enclosed crawl space so I don't have to sorry about adding another vent to it. SO it sounds like my first step is the reinforcement of the floor (which I need clarification on), then I need to frame out the new partition. Thanks again!

Now I have to read the next two replies. . .

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Sam the Caveman - I just opened your grow link and will read it start to finish when I'm done writing this post. I picked up 2 oz's of LA Confidential today and I've got all night to go through it! I'm hoping to run a scrog with a couple large plants, so my need for clones will be very low. My mother plant will be automated in a very small ebb & flow bucket I have, so she will be VERY small as well. I'm hoping to fit it in there, but if it doesn't I can probably find another spot. I'm in the upper midwest. Think of the weather in Fargo, ND and mine is similar. In fact I'm pretty sure that growing will only be a couple harvests per year kind of thing due to the fact that I don't want steamy air being vented from my roof in the winter. My fan will definitely be thermostatically controlled. I have a few vortex fans from past grows along with a Sentinel climate controller that's pretty rad. I can use 100% of my budget for building materials since I already have that stuff! Glad I didn't sell it. I'll check out the ProDex product. I hope to be able to fit some sort of drain to waste tray in there so I can hand water coco coir, yet have an easy way to let them drain to a central waste bucket. I've done grows where things are hard to reach and I'm done with that shit. I know this space is less than ideal but I'm hoping that I can pull it off without having it be super difficult to get back there. I'd rather have a single 600 watter or even an LED grow if it meant that I could do everything stress-free. I hadn't even considered an AC. If properly mounted without taking any shortcuts, how quiet could one of those be?

bipotato - I was wondering about Reflectix. . . is that used as an extra layer of insulation between the studs/insulation & the drywall? Or is it used INSTEAD of the drywall (fire retardant)?

Thanks for all the help this site is the best!

 

[junior_grower]

Okay the floor will be the lower cord of the roof truss or framing member, In 90% of homes these are 2x4's, some are 2x6's. In your case I would bet 2x4 but yours will be a true 2"x4". These will be more than strong enough to hold 600lbs of weight. I use nothing but Mineral wool insulation, a brand called roxul fire and sound. Roxul dose not burn nor does it mold. I would first insulate the floor cavities then sheet with 3/4 plywood. Build the floor larger than your intended room foot print so you have a nice base to build walls on. Frame up walls with 2x6 but remember you will need an access in both walls if you ever need to get into the attic ( you will at some point). I would use the roxul in the walls and roof. The walls would need a second layer of insulation with a good r value, so two layers of R12 batts work. The first is the sound dampening and fire rated roxul the second and out side layer is a normal thermal batt. The roof will also need the thermal insulation (with no airflow moisture will cause issues if regular fiberglass batts are used).
Once everything is framed and insulated a layer of 5/8 fire rated drywall should be used, or two layers of 1/2, with the first layer receiving a quick fire tape before the second layer goes on. After the drywalling is finished a good quality bathroom paint with a mildicide should be used to paint the walls. Lay down a layer of pond liner on the floor and you should be all set.
I have not included anything on ventilation because I'm not sure of your climate and what the temps in the attic are like.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

If properly mounted without taking any shortcuts, how quiet could one of those be?

The one I use sets on a rubber bungee cord on top of a stand an I can't hear it anywhere in my house. But, my grow room is above the garage. You can barely hear it running when I'm in the garage, but if the attic vent fan is running it covers it up. The a/c I have is also an old one that vibrates more than a new one would.

Prodex has an R13 insulation value using only one layer, and if you sandwich 2 layers with an air gap in between them it has an R22 value. Its made of closed cell foam with mylar on both sides. I think reflectix only has like an R3 or R6 insulation value.

 

[hkush]

The heat will be ridiculous in the summer. Some IR reflecting material is pretty much a necessity. Placed right up near the ceiling, foil facing up, with an air gap between the attic and the roof sheathing. http://www.radiantbarrier.com/diamond-insulation.htm is good, and for sale at HTG, and other places.

 

[XsublimeX]

im in the process of a similar project, im planning on constructing and insulated room and drawing cooled air from inside the home. Im kind of having trouble deciding what insulation to use and what technique to install it. I looked at prodex but it looks floppy and hard to work with, not to mention i have a very hard time beleiving it insulates as well as they claim.
At this point im planning on framing prefab walls from 2x4s just like a homes interior wall, on the inside and outside of these walls im planning on attaching rigid foam board. Ill have a 3 inch dead air space between the foam board, ill lightly fluff some fiberglass inbetween (hope all that makes sense) the foam board give R 5 per inch with additional 2.6 R if an airspace is allowed. im guessing ill get about R 20 total and i really hope its enough to keep temps manageable with ample venting of hvac cooled air. I kinna wonder what it would look like on FLIR, o well i doubt they use that here. The foam board seems really sturdy and easy to work with so im pretty sure thats my best bet. Im also going to cover the inside with sheet rock so im fireproofed.
Ive really given this alot of thought and it seems like something simialr would work well in ur situation too. hope this helps

 

[SupraSPL]

I think this space has potential! There will be some challenges but it can be done.

+1 for ridiculous heat in summer. Especially if you are running big HIDs, the temps will soar out of control. One thing that can be a huge help is to run lights from 9PM-9AM or something along those lines. You could take a break during July and August if necessary, good time for vacations anyway.

Are there vents under the eaves along the crawlspace? From the pictures it looked like there was a gap there. If so, that could be a potential air intake. Drawing in that cool night air would be a huge help. Would it be possible to get an intake from the basement?

For insulation, a relatively easy and cheap solution would be mylar foam panels at Lowes. I have used them in the 3/4" thickness but they have thicker sizes available 1 inch or more. You can seal corners with duct tape and make an air tight box with the exhaust at the top or top side.

Others have mentioned framing out the room with studs and fire rock. Since it is your home and I assume you will be there for quite a while that may not be a bad idea. Technically though, you could get the job done with just cheapo EWP framing and mylar foam panels. From EPS energy, "Panels with foil facings have stabilized R-values of 7.1 to 8.7 per inch."

For floors, plywood is a good choice for strength. If you can't transport or cut big sheets, Lowes sells 2'X2' pieces which are easily fit through small doors and into tight spaces. You can "sister" support boards onto the side of the joists to get a larger surface for the floor board screws to grab onto if necessary.

Once you have your box you can lay down PEVA shower curtain to cover the floor (or something tougher if you intend to walk in there a lot) to catch the runoff. It will evaporate on its own or you can collect it and remove it by watering in a tray. I keep the plants raised an inch and spread a thin layer of diatomaceous earth on the floor which helps it evap quicker and avoids puddles/mold on the curtain.

You mentioned LED as a possible solution. It would allow you to control temps more quietly. With new LEDs coming to market soon you could replace 600w HPS with 300watts of LED and get same yields. Personally I would feel better about fire safety that way as well, particularly if you use foam panels without fire rock.

 

[DrGreenFingerz]

q

 

[Lone Wolf]

hey B. Self Reliant.... any updates?? did you decide to go ahead and build???

if not, check out my thread... i have a pretty damn good attic room going strong right now... its been about 103 degrees the past few days outside, and i keep my attic at a cool 75... i have about 80 plants in it right now... already ran a grow through it and got about 7 lbs.(in the winter).. my current run im using 600watters instead of 1ks (reduceheat and power bill) so i might have a little less weight...


anyone can grow in the attic... its alot of work, but once the work is done, you will be happy... the attic is the last place that any snooping people who come over would think you are growing in especially with heat... nobody would ever know that I put a 22k btu ac unit up there and vent it out of a small ass triangle attic vent... lol...

go check it out... link is in my sig...

PEACE, and hopefully you went ahead and constructed yours!

LW

 

[VerdantGreen]

yeah go into a garden shed on a sunny day. see how hot it gets? - the attic will be the same. i grow in my attic in a few cabinets that ive built in, there is some talk about it in my grow diaries (more in the 250hps one). i find ducting air up from the house to be a great help as it is cooler in summer and warmer in winter, then i exhaust into the roof space. i built an insulated 'room' within the loft that the cabinets are in, its tight and cramped but i grow some great bud up there. a good stealthy option

VG

 

[B. Self Reliant]

VerdantGreen- I've seen you threads and your setup is amazing! Very inspirational.

This thread has been inactive for a while because I've had some medical issues to deal with. Maintaining my guerilla garden and whatnot has been enough of a challenge! No worries though, this project is a long-term ordeal and I knew it would be a tough project when I decided to go through with it.

I'll keep you all posted. . .

 

[Kalicokitty]

I had the same situation, basement or attic.
Attic was a dream space, big, hidden, perfect, or so I thought.
After 6 months of battling ridiculous extremes in temps, I gave up and moved the show to the basement.
Good luck with yours, many people have made it work, I'm just not one of them.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Alright, time for an update. . . .

Due to financial restrictions and the amount of time it would take to get the uninsulated attic space up to par, I've decided to use a different space. Thanks to everyone who gave me info & advice. I'm very confident in my new space and am grateful for help that was given to me from other growers on this forum who have experience with their own attic grows.

This is the outside of the new space. It is accessed through the same upper floor bedroom. Behind that small door in the knee wall is an uninsulated crawl space (the same type pictured in my original post). The actual grow space is/will be the long cabinet that stretches from the open cabinet door all the way to end of the room where the fan is. The main advantage of this space over the original space is that it's already insulated and maintains a reasonable temperature year round.

This is the inside of the grow space. It's 12' 8" long, 2' deep & 2' 11" tall. The ceiling of the grow space is slanted, so the actual headspace is taller than stated, but assuming I want to hang my lights level I have to plan on only 35" of headspace.

Needless to say, the headspace will be the limiting factor, so I've already committed to making this an LED grow. After growing with a 250 watt HPS in a fridge for a couple years, I've decided I'm done with HPS fixtures in confined spaces! I'll be using an array of HydroGrow LED's 205 watt fixtures. At the recommended 6" above the canopy, they should cover a 30"x30" area. This will benefit me for two reasons. First, I need to maximize my headspace and only needing 6" between the tops of my plants and the LED fixture is great. Second, the space is 24" deep, so this fixture will easily cover the depth just fine. I'll probably start out with a single fixture and then add them every 3' feet or so as I generate income. Remember, my space is almost 13' long, so I should be able to fit at least 3 of these fixtures in there eventually, even after factoring in a veg area and other equipment concerns.

This is what it looks like directly inside the hobbit-sized door. The insulated area to the right is the left outer wall of the grow space, and the surrounding area is a crawl space that runs along the left and back sides of the grow space. This should make mounting my fans extremely easy, as the filters themselves can be inside, but the fans will be mounted in the crawl space to limit noise and heat in the grow space itself.


Where I'm at now. . .

My next step is running electricity to the grow space as there aren't currently any outlets in there. The T5 fixture that's over my AK-47 plants is being powered by an extension cord and to say it's a PITA is an understatement. I need to do this first, because if a pro needs to be called, I need the space to look like it isn't a garden (i.e. no ducting, lights, etc).

Here's where I need help! This is an image of the back side of my finished bedroom. The third panel to the right of the door has a 120 volt, 15 amp outlet behind it that powers my bedroom. It's currently the last of 3 outlets on that circuit, but I need to tap into it and run two more outlets into the grow space. I have the amperage & know how to install new outlets, but I'm unsure of how to route the 12 gauge Romex through a wall that's packed with pink insulation.

I'm assuming there's a way to run it underneath the three panels of fiberboard & through the studs, then up & over the hobbit door and into the grow space. If I remove the fiberboard panels, there will be insulation in there. What is the standard (safe) way to run Romex through a wall like this? Do I run the bare wire through the insulation? Do I use some sort of conduit? it doesn't need to go that far, but given the working conditions in there, i would like to do it the easiest way possible.

Any help with this would be GREAT! The electricity is the only task that I would potentially need professional help with, so once this is done I can move on to installing fans, filters & duct work that I already have, erecting a partition between the veg & flower areas and installing my Sentinel climate control unit.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

No one knows how to run Romex through a wall that's filled with pink insulation?!