52W w/out ventilation: laundry-hamper grow (Shiskeberry,EarlyWonderSkunk, Mandala#1F2)

[Ghostwolf]

I have a question lamp-hill. I see that you are using reptile glo CFL's. I would like to know what type and size you have. Also do you run them on a regular light cycle, and how close can you put plants to them. I ask because I've been trying to find someone who was using those kind of lights. I'm very interested in growing with UVB light. Anything you could tell me would be helpful. Thanks

 

[christoph'sbud]

EWS is easily stressed, and this strain will flower under ANY light schedual, even 24/0. which i have mine under.

 

[lamp-hill]

I have a question lamp-hill. I see that you are using reptile glo CFL's. I would like to know what type and size you have. Also do you run them on a regular light cycle, and how close can you put plants to them. I ask because I've been trying to find someone who was using those kind of lights. I'm very interested in growing with UVB light. Anything you could tell me would be helpful. Thanks

this link here for more info on the specific CFL i'm using, and i'm using a single one:
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php

i'm using the 26W version of the ""Repti Glo 2.0 Compact Full Spectrum Terrarium Lamp". i actually have both the 13W and the 26W versions. the 26W was a bit too much power for a frog terrarium that it was intended for. decided to try it out on plants other than moss and ferns after reading the descriptions on the back of the box about its full-spectrumness and promises of "plant growth stimulating" rays.

temps in the grow-hamper (with lights on, ranging from between 75-85W of CFLs) have ranged from 27-38 degrees C (representative of lid-shut-high and lid-off low temperatures). i've been able to place vegetative foliage as close as 2cm maybe even 1 cm away from the 26W Repti-Glo 2.0 bulb surface before any leaf burning occured.


i noticed some green onion and a minority of cannabis seedlings showing signs which i suspect may indicate light stress, such as leaf curling when i used this bulb alone for a 24/0 light cycle. i discontinued continuous lighting since noticing the green onions bouncing back with a speedy recovery of new growth after the incorporation of some dark period. decided not to torture the plants with 24-0 light if it would stress them out. this bulb overall is my best bulb. everything seems to grow a littble bit faster underneath its full spectrum light.. it seems to work fine for most of the plants i've grown under it using light cycles under 18 hours. though this is my first indoor grow attempt, i just got the idea that it might be interesting to grow and flower some plants directly under this one and compare potency differences.

 

[lamp-hill]

last thursday (~a week ago) i mailed a letter to Mandala Seeds. i just recieved an email today from Mandala Seeds confirming that they'd recieved my letter and were mailing my order today of the following
Mandala Seeds:
satori,
white satin,
mandala#1,
8 mile high,
+ the mandala freebie, the safari mix.

and and the following feminized Greenhouse beans:
A.M.S. (freebie)
Sativa mix 5-pack. (arjan's haze #1, super silver haze, strawberry haze, neville's haze, hawaiian snow)

in about 2 weeks time i may succumb to an urge to germinate some of these above mentioned seeds. not all though. so, i'll take votes if anyone's got any curious requests/suggestions after seeing this list of seeds and the artificial environment i've made. oh should have also mentioned that i installed ventilation yesterday. might need some bigger intake holes or something. it's not providing much cooling benefit for ~75W of CFL. i'm testing out the smell-control aspect of the activated carbon filter by placing a live catnip plant in the hamper. there's a cat around, and i assume if the cat hasn't tried to get at the laundry hamper for the extremely potent catnip (i know this because after rubbing a fresh leaf with a finger it leaves the finger smelling pungent, almost skunky in a cannabis-like way (!) but it`s when approaching the cat, he will zero in on the smell of the finger) then the stealth issue is solid.


oh yes and i would have updated with a post a couple days ago if i weren't so interested in reading so many interesting ICmag threads: got 3 confirmed females growing in the hamper now (with first few visible pistils): EWS, 8 mile high, and a "pure" "lillooet"

 

[Ghostwolf]

EWS is easily stressed, and this strain will flower under ANY light schedual, even 24/0. which i have mine under.

Are you using a reptile bulb Christoph?

 

[Ghostwolf]

this link here for more info on the specific CFL i'm using, and i'm using a single one:
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php

i'm using the 26W version of the ""Repti Glo 2.0 Compact Full Spectrum Terrarium Lamp". i actually have both the 13W and the 26W versions. the 26W was a bit too much power for a frog terrarium that it was intended for. decided to try it out on plants other than moss and ferns after reading the descriptions on the back of the box about its full-spectrumness and promises of "plant growth stimulating" rays.

temps in the grow-hamper (with lights on, ranging from between 75-85W of CFLs) have ranged from 27-38 degrees C (representative of lid-shut-high and lid-off low temperatures). i've been able to place vegetative foliage as close as 2cm maybe even 1 cm away from the 26W Repti-Glo 2.0 bulb surface before any leaf burning occured.


i noticed some green onion and a minority of cannabis seedlings showing signs which i suspect may indicate light stress, such as leaf curling when i used this bulb alone for a 24/0 light cycle. i discontinued continuous lighting since noticing the green onions bouncing back with a speedy recovery of new growth after the incorporation of some dark period. decided not to torture the plants with 24-0 light if it would stress them out. this bulb overall is my best bulb. everything seems to grow a littble bit faster underneath its full spectrum light.. it seems to work fine for most of the plants i've grown under it using light cycles under 18 hours. though this is my first indoor grow attempt, i just got the idea that it might be interesting to grow and flower some plants directly under this one and compare potency differences.

Thanks for the useful information. Have you noticed any extra resin production as a result of using the reptile bulb?

 

[lamp-hill]

Thanks for the useful information. Have you noticed any extra resin production as a result of using the reptile bulb?

i want to answer yes to this question and say "it's science!". but at the same time i`ve never grown indoors before (this is my 1st) to harvest any plant that flowered and produced all its resin indoors. so i won`t have a suitable basis for comparison of what extra resin production actually looks like, untill i fully finish flowering some plants in this hamper under the reptile bulb and finish some other plants under some generic 2700K and 3000K CFLs. then compare them. i could do this if it would make for actual gains in International Cannagraphical research. i mean, most of the times i have observed what looks to be extra or earlier resin production, i assumed it was a result of breeding genetics, not so much light. for light i have always thought there was only one pure "control" source, which is the sun. everything else to me is experimental. except when a light source is able to mimick sunlight in terms of wavelenth distribution. i like to think in terms of how the plants i'm growing would grow under sunlight. and i believe the reptile bulb imitates sun to a certain extent, so that i actually consider it the "primary, or most normal/natural" source of lighting in my set up", rather than the exception. though it is outnumbered by "soft-whites" to a ratio of sometimes 3-1.
now if someone could post a wavelength output spectrum of sunlight, that would make it alot easier to find the right Repti-Glo UVB output to match what would amount to an average daylength of 14-12 hours of exposure to UV-containing sun rays.....

to elaborate on what i`ve noticed:
i have noticed ealier slight trichome production near the base of top leaves and stems of plants growing below this reptile bulb. these were plants about 6 inches tall, with maybe 5-7 nodes of leaf sets. i assumed this was largely due to genetics and perhaps extra nutrient feeding in some cases. the aroma of the plants which happened to be growing faster under the reptile bulb seemed to emit more of an early pre-flowering aroma as well. sometimes cannabis-skunky at almost-tomatoey (rubbing the stem) at times.
what`s most apparent with the growth of seedlings under the reptile bulb is what seemed to me to be remarkably explosive branching and multiplication of leaves per node and the shortening of internodal distances.

but there are several complicating factors: this 26W UVB CFL is the highest wattage and highest colour temperature (6700K) light i have at the moment, all the other lights are ``warmer``-coloured and lower wattage, (either 2700K or 3000K 23W) or (4000K 13W).


the reasons i`d hesitate to answer yes would boil down to these possible complications of the results:
- influences by different genetics
- possibility that extra or faster or earlier resin production may be due to the higher wattage of this light.
-or the cooler colour temperature of 6700K.
-or even the differences in soil texture and mineral nutrient fertility.
-container size differences too (700mL up to 1.8 L)
-or even my frequent freak interruptions of the plants` dark period. (most plants in the hamper are of different ages and states of maturity)

if i could isolate those variables by growing clones in consistently sized containers and what not, with just the reptile UVB bulb, compared with plants grown (flowered) in isolation with just an equal wattage of the generic 2700K and 3000K `soft white` CFLs.... only then could i say for certain.

but as i`m growing plants crammed into a laundry hamper in a variety of containers with a variety of soil types (from sandy loam field soil i bagged from a nearby organic farm to a more fluffy potting soil mix that potatoes were container-grown in last summer), with varying amounts of nutrients and supplements, and with an unseparated mixture of lights... i really feel these mixed factors prevent me from making any scientific sort of conclusions. feel free to suggest any easy changes in the placement of plants or lights that i could make if you think it would make my experimentation more . whats the word. empirical.



p.s. i will try to post a picture update next week. lots of changes in the hamper populations. there's now catnip, soon lots more seedlings, a couple feminized seedlings (very excited about this. i've had to cull 5 males so far to garuntee a return of 3 females? was kind of bummed that the males were males, some of them were smelling really nice), no more grass growing (atleast the oat and wheat kind), cactuses are bigger than ever, the green onions/leek are being oppressed by being wrapped with a pipe-cleaner (to prevent their stalks from leaning everywhere). and i've covered all the transparent pots, and i've started using square containers in the form of "tetra pack" drink cartons with the tops cut off.

 

[christoph'sbud]

Are you using a reptile bulb Christoph?

no i dont bro.

 

[Ghostwolf]

no i dont bro.

That's Ok buddy I just wondered.

 

[Ghostwolf]

i want to answer yes to this question and say "it's science!". but at the same time i`ve never grown indoors before (this is my 1st) to harvest any plant that flowered and produced all its resin indoors. so i won`t have a suitable basis for comparison of what extra resin production actually looks like, untill i fully finish flowering some plants in this hamper under the reptile bulb and finish some other plants under some generic 2700K and 3000K CFLs. then compare them. i could do this if it would make for actual gains in International Cannagraphical research. i mean, most of the times i have observed what looks to be extra or earlier resin production, i assumed it was a result of breeding genetics, not so much light. for light i have always thought there was only one pure "control" source, which is the sun. everything else to me is experimental. except when a light source is able to mimick sunlight in terms of wavelenth distribution. i like to think in terms of how the plants i'm growing would grow under sunlight. and i believe the reptile bulb imitates sun to a certain extent, so that i actually consider it the "primary, or most normal/natural" source of lighting in my set up", rather than the exception. though it is outnumbered by "soft-whites" to a ratio of sometimes 3-1.
now if someone could post a wavelength output spectrum of sunlight, that would make it alot easier to find the right Repti-Glo UVB output to match what would amount to an average daylength of 14-12 hours of exposure to UV-containing sun rays.....

to elaborate on what i`ve noticed:
i have noticed ealier slight trichome production near the base of top leaves and stems of plants growing below this reptile bulb. these were plants about 6 inches tall, with maybe 5-7 nodes of leaf sets. i assumed this was largely due to genetics and perhaps extra nutrient feeding in some cases. the aroma of the plants which happened to be growing faster under the reptile bulb seemed to emit more of an early pre-flowering aroma as well. sometimes cannabis-skunky at almost-tomatoey (rubbing the stem) at times.
what`s most apparent with the growth of seedlings under the reptile bulb is what seemed to me to be remarkably explosive branching and multiplication of leaves per node and the shortening of internodal distances.

but there are several complicating factors: this 26W UVB CFL is the highest wattage and highest colour temperature (6700K) light i have at the moment, all the other lights are ``warmer``-coloured and lower wattage, (either 2700K or 3000K 23W) or (4000K 13W).


the reasons i`d hesitate to answer yes would boil down to these possible complications of the results:
- influences by different genetics
- possibility that extra or faster or earlier resin production may be due to the higher wattage of this light.
-or the cooler colour temperature of 6700K.
-or even the differences in soil texture and mineral nutrient fertility.
-container size differences too (700mL up to 1.8 L)
-or even my frequent freak interruptions of the plants` dark period. (most plants in the hamper are of different ages and states of maturity)

if i could isolate those variables by growing clones in consistently sized containers and what not, with just the reptile UVB bulb, compared with plants grown (flowered) in isolation with just an equal wattage of the generic 2700K and 3000K `soft white` CFLs.... only then could i say for certain.

but as i`m growing plants crammed into a laundry hamper in a variety of containers with a variety of soil types (from sandy loam field soil i bagged from a nearby organic farm to a more fluffy potting soil mix that potatoes were container-grown in last summer), with varying amounts of nutrients and supplements, and with an unseparated mixture of lights... i really feel these mixed factors prevent me from making any scientific sort of conclusions. feel free to suggest any easy changes in the placement of plants or lights that i could make if you think it would make my experimentation more . whats the word. empirical.



p.s. i will try to post a picture update next week. lots of changes in the hamper populations. there's now catnip, soon lots more seedlings, a couple feminized seedlings (very excited about this. i've had to cull 5 males so far to garuntee a return of 3 females? was kind of bummed that the males were males, some of them were smelling really nice), no more grass growing (atleast the oat and wheat kind), cactuses are bigger than ever, the green onions/leek are being oppressed by being wrapped with a pipe-cleaner (to prevent their stalks from leaning everywhere). and i've covered all the transparent pots, and i've started using square containers in the form of "tetra pack" drink cartons with the tops cut off.

Hey that's fair enough lamp hill I'm trying to research UVB stimulation of the trichromes and THC production. I've come a cross some others that do this and say that it makes a difference. Thanks for the information my friend.

 

[ScrubNinja]

now if someone could post a wavelength output spectrum of sunlight, that would make it alot easier to find the right Repti-Glo UVB output to match what would amount to an average daylength of 14-12 hours of exposure to UV-containing sun rays.....

It depends on where you are measuring in the world. A mountain top on the equator is quite different UV levels to sea level far away from the equator. There are plenty around though.

 

[Ghostwolf]

Does this help anyone out some ?

 

[lamp-hill]

now that i've got ventilation, i need to change the title of this thread. if any moderators are reading this who could do it for me: 52-75W in a laundry-hamper: mandala seeds+ GHS sativas + bagseed + cacti

Ghostwolf that picture didn't seem to work

Scrubninja, without some of your threads, this next picture update would not have been possible. i've been referencing your PC-fan and ventilation-linked threads alot in the past month while trying to rig up some PC-fans and and a "micro-scrub" to this laundry hamper grow. i'd like to formally thank you for condensing the wealth of information you have into such DIY-appealing formats for law-abiding citizens like me to be inspired by. you have done a great community service and i recognize you as one of the ICmag "authorities" on micro-growing just based on how useful the information you've shared has been.

those spectral graphs are pretty helpful for comparing the UV output and wavelength distribution between these repti-glow CFLS and sunlight. just 'eyeballing" the charts and reading the back of the box descriptions, it seems that the 2.0 Repti-glo i'm using for this grow is lower in UV output compared with average sunlight at my elevation and latitude outdoors (49 deg N). thus i might have to assume that any relative gains in resin-productio under the 2.0 repti-glo light i'm using are porbably more due to the very blue wavelenth distribution, moreso than the small amount of UV coming from the light.


Is it true that all CFLs emit UV, and that to get a CFL to emit more UV light, the manufacturers simply apply a thinner UV-absorbing coat/tint to the inside of the bulb glass? i might have read about this from ICmag. it's making me wonder whether it's possible to modify regular CFLs to emit more UV.

because the repti-glo lights by Exo-terra are quite expensive.

I'm not sure, but i'm assuming that the 10.0 repti-glo lights would put out more UV (as % of sunlight radiation) than the sunlight where i am. while i'm guessing that the 5.0 Repti-glos are about "average direct sunlight" where i am in terms of its UV levels.



just because pics are what seem to make these grow threads, the second pic is lower quality, but labelled (strains)
here's an update from May 12, 2010:

 

[christoph'sbud]

looking great man! im thinking of getting some little prickly pear cactus soon for my growing area

good job with the new vetillation!

christoph

 

[lamp-hill]

thanks christoph! i got my prickly pear fruit from the granville island public market, which i suspect you may know of. the fruit itself was delicious and i didn't really expect the seeds to be viable, but they've demonstrated what seems to be a really good 80-90% germination success so far. you may be glad that i have 1 confirmed EWS female flowering in this micro right now. it's the one on the right side of pic. plus an unsexed EWS seedling, the one on the bottom left of the labeled 2nd picture i just oploaded. culled about 3 EWS males so far, which i hope may be a sign that there'll be less of a chance of males from the EWS now that i've "found 3 of em already". i am strongly considering transplanting the EWS outdoors under the sun, even if i'll need to smash the glass jar (which i don't really want to do).

i've had this ventillation going for atleast a week now. and it seems that the addition of ventilation may have less of an impact on the growth rate during vegging, when compared with distancing/placement of CFL lights. though i'm sure the plants are happier with the improved ventilation now

I think the activated carbon filter is working. the cat hasn't shown any particular interest in the laundry hamper, and so i assume he hasn't been able to detect the live catnip plant growing within. even when i leave the lid open, which has been the usual lately.

i can't seem to close the lid on this laundry hamper with 70+ W of CFL lights turned on without the temperature shooting up to 38+°C, sometimes approaching 40 °C. with 70+ W of CFL lights on, and lid open, temperatures stablize around 26-29 °C


any suggestions on whether/where i should/could improve air intake? or anything else? i'd like to eventually have the lid shut without it getting hotter than 35 °C, but preferably cooler. i am using a 120mm 12V 0.3amp PC fan for the carbon filter.


P.S.. i also recieved my Mandala Seed order in the mail a few days ago! i posted about it on the previous page (post #24 of this thread). when summer's near over i will eventually be popping some more seeds for this micro. i'll be sure to start off with some easier growing strains. but i'm thinking of challenging myself with some sativas/hazes if all goes well. if anyone's got any votes/experienced suggestions of which GHS haze/sativa strain i should attempt growing indoors/micro first (in this hamper most likely), i'm open.

 

[Ghostwolf]

I found some solar output charts but they wouldn't copy so I could post them here. But just google your subject and you'll have some good answers in front of you. I wish I could have done better for you. I hope it helps you a little, Good Luck.

 

[Ghostwolf]

OK I was finally able to get this one for you. I hope it's what your looking for.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Lamp, thanks for the ultra kind words, man : I'm proud you could utilise it - rock on.

About the UV, I think I read that inside any fluoro, before it hits the glass or the phosphors, it's basically straight/raw UV and then the things mentioned kind of shape it into the spectrums we're used to. If you could work out a way to alter the phosphors, I think you would end up with a very powerful uv light....but at the same time, this is a rather dangerous thing to attempt because you couldn't measure it, and uv-c is very, very dangerous to living things. You can see on Ghosty's chart there that it starts messing with DNA down low in the spectrum. Bad juju

I suspect you'll never get the heat worked out 100% because of the fabric walls. You really want intake at the bottom (cold air sinks), and the exhaust and carbon filter at the top (hot air rises). The fabric is going to allow air in all over though. I know it sorta seems like it would be better all over, like, more coverage sort of thing, but you really do need that path from down low to up high. You have a fairly weak fan there so you need to concentrate it all into one focused flow I reckon.

I noticed you're thinking ahead to your next grow - if there's anything I can say to convince you to upgrade to a more solid/fireproof sort of a cab, let me know - in fact, here goes... Apart from the circulation issue, it just seems risky to me, danger-wise. And it seems like a riskier idea to have a cat in the house with catnip growing inside the cab, heh! Just thinking of you and your kitty's safety Another thing is that your plants can put out a lot of moisture when they're bigger, at lights off, so wet cloth and paper around isn't a great thing mold-wise.

Does it block light 100% and not glow in the dark at all? (meaning light can leak in too) It's amazing how little of a light leak will interrupt flowering. Well, I'll quit blabbering but hopefully you see what I mean. Best of luck

 

[TheSg]

Hey Lamp you're thinking of starting those sativas in the micro!!
that sounds unheard of in a challenging way, I wonder if it could work with lots of training' and whatnot, I wonder if you could form a sort of bonsai cannabis sativa/haze by cutting the root formations down and keeping them in extremely shallow pots, I guess you'd have to do a lot! of work it might not even be worth the outcome, I wonder if they could do good outdoors in a cooler climate like ours? however I've seen many of my own sativas respond with a hatred for flowering in this environment.
thanks for being an inspiration and such a scientist you're always informative and thorough.
oh ya check your "my IC" for a thread Idea I'm brooding right now.

 

[lamp-hill]

Scrub thanks for all those helpful suggestions. i may have to look into modifying my ventilation setup. temps with lights on has stabilized around 31 degrees C. but that's with an unshaded thermometer. (i recently read a post where you mentioned the issue of shading thermometers). also, the hamper actually isn't 100% light proof, i can see a glow from the corners where the cloth is thinner and there's no cardboard stiffener or whatever is giving the hamper structural support. i have been considering building a more permanent cabinet setup out wood, but that'll remain a future plan for now. when i do get around to it, i'll definitely take your advice and have exhaust at the top and intake at the bottom.

right now, this laundry hamper is the most unsuspiciou-looking quick-easy solution. it also happens to be the perfect height for sliding under a desk i keep it under. i had been assuming that the fabric walls would help absorb excess humidity out of the air this whole time. hmm.

Hey Lamp you're thinking of starting those sativas in the micro!!
that sounds unheard of in a challenging way, I wonder if it could work with lots of training' and whatnot, I wonder if you could form a sort of bonsai cannabis sativa/haze by cutting the root formations down and keeping them in extremely shallow pots, I guess you'd have to do a lot! of work it might not even be worth the outcome, I wonder if they could do good outdoors in a cooler climate like ours? however I've seen many of my own sativas respond with a hatred for flowering in this environment.
thanks for being an inspiration and such a scientist you're always informative and thorough.
oh ya check your "my IC" for a thread Idea I'm brooding right now.

oh man, check out the micro thread some guy was micro growing a columbian gold. i think the flowering time was like 24 weeks.
i haven't started any of the long-finishing time sativas yet as i'm not certain whether i'll be around consistently enough to maintain them. i'm thinking once august-septemeber rolls around, i may start a few in some ~3-5L pots. i also liberated an empty 15L square bucket without a lid that wasn't being used. may use it for growing a bigger SCROGged sativa, or as a drying box. regarding root-trimming, i read somewhere (icmag probbaly) that it has a high tendency to stress females into males. i was thinking for a stretchy sativa, perhaps trying out a SCROG method. we should snap some pictures sometime.