i have some Q's regarding unemployment benefits.

[NOKUY]

im gonna try to make this short and sweet.

i lost my job and have filed for unemployment...not for long tho, but just 'til i get reasonable work....won't take me long.

the thing is that it's been 3 weeks and my claim is still "under review" so i don't know if ill get benefits or not.

the company is saying that i was let go due to "misconduct" ...not for anything serious, but they claim that i was sleeping on shift (which i wasnt)

....I had been recently diagnosed w/ type1 diabetes and have had known issues managing my blood sugar when working nights and alternating shifts.

I was NOT supposed to be working "shift work" or working nights, and have doctor letters that have said that for the past 6+ months, and the company even took me off shifts for awhile recognizing that, then put me back on shifts, then i had issues again.

i suppose i could elaborate more, but dont think that i have to....

so if they deny unemployment does it sound like i have a case to challenge that?

any other thoughts?

 

[NOKUY]

this is texas btw

 

[-~Wind Walker~-]

Yes. It will take awhile for this process to get going. I assume you have the documentation?

Is there any corresponding documentation regarding the company switching your shifts b/c of your medical issue. If not, I would suggest putting together a synapses of Who (managers, etc), whys (why your schedule was switched), what (conversations, decisions)

That way when there is a review or hearing you have your facts straight.

I went through this B/S with a company who said I was let go b/c of misconduct. I won my hearing however because I came prepared when we had the hearing.

Good luck

-~WW~-

 

[NOKUY]

thanks W.W.!

as for documentation what i have are the letters from my endocrinologist (current, and from last november)

...also dates that i was on "short term disability" and paid short term disability through the hartford group, and can document my shift schedule change to day shifts immediatly after coming back from short term disability (acknowledging the doctors recomendations)

...and can document my diabetes numbers and issues after they put me back on alternating shifts (nights then days then nights then days.......)

...and have doctors notes for any days i missed due to complications w/ my diabetes....

...i was even considering a lawsuit, but that might be reaching....but actually maybe it's not

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

If you were terminated for misconduct, your unemployment claim will almost certainly be denied. If approved, your employer will have the opportunity to dispute your claim, and then it will be denied.

You can appeal. This is where you will bring your case to the investigator who acts as the go-between for you and your prior employer and will ultimately decide if you qualify to receive benefits.

Depends on the specific laws in Texas, but you may be able to have the benefits approved at that point by bringing your medical issues to the table. Maybe not.

Here's the thing - you claim you were not sleeping on the job, but, then say your medical issues made you unable to complete your tasks on the shift. Seems to me that admitting to one is admitting to the other. (I believe you, but the whole thing seems tailor made to make it hard for you to explicitly deny, at least to an unemployment investigator)

That basically puts it in your hands. If you had this "doctors note" that said you couldn't work night shifts, and you then took those shifts anyways, then basically its your fault.

Had you immediately refused to take those shifts when your employer decided to ignore your medical issue, then perhaps you would have a solid claim with unemployment.

But because you went along with it, for whatever reason, I believe the responsibility lies with you.

It then becomes a he said/she said about weather or not you fell asleep on the shift or did something that otherwise counts as misconduct, regardless of the medical issues. In a he said/she said, the employer's word is almost always taken.

 

[-StashBastard-]

Sorry to hear that Yukon, that really sucks.

My wife works at the Denver refinery training the operators and I hear a lot about unions.

Do you have a union? I would think they could help if so.

Best of luck bro.

 

[theHIGHlander]

If you had this "doctors note" that said you couldn't work night shifts, and you then took those shifts anyways, then basically its your fault.

Had you immediately refused to take those shifts when your employer decided to ignore your medical issue, then perhaps you would have a solid claim with unemployment.

But because you went along with it, for whatever reason, I believe the responsibility lies with you.

It then becomes a he said/she said about weather or not you fell asleep on the shift or did something that otherwise counts as misconduct, regardless of the medical issues. In a he said/she said, the employer's word is almost always taken.[/QUOTE]

i hear what your saying bro......
But....stress depression,illness ect ect can make you do crazy/ stupid things to yaselft.......

if you play your cards right, you could take them all the way,,,,eg..you felt pressured to work theses shifts as you have a house/car/family to pay for,,,yeh you might be a bit selfish towards yourself (not worrying about your health) and feel you have to work these hours to support yourself/family....

oh and make sure to let your Doc know that you got no support from your work place& that thay made you feel like a lepa because of your illness.......(which in turn put you under more stress)

bro a good lawyer should be able to take this company to the claners for you,,and at least get them to admit that thay had a hand in you sacking (lack of support/ not careing about there workers ect ect )......this should at least help you on your benifits claim, or could even get you some sorta compensation
good luck bro

keep it green
highlander

 

[friscofrqancis]

If denied; APPEAL!!

If you had not been written up for sleeping on the job, then there is no record of you sleeping on the job. Then there is no cause to fire you. Texas may be different than California, to be sure, but there are federal guidelines that must be followed.
Might wanna check this out: http://www.ows.doleta.gov/unemploy/uifactsheet.asp as a place to start.

If you need the cash to survive, it can be a bitch living through the appeal process. But if you win, you get all that back pay. Can be nice.

I was let go because I missed one day work and could not call in. (got busted and had no report off number to call). Took a few months and I was in dire straights for while before the thing got settled, took a job as bouncer/bartender. Got my 3 months back unemployment, plus I already had the job by then. Nice bonus check, made it possible to get a few things together so I could get a REAL job.

 

[Ickis]

Never say you knew you couldn't work the shift. Tell them the doctor said it could be a problem. You never saw it coming and must have just be messed up by your sugar. You didn't mean to do anything wrong and it just snuck up on you without you knowing it was a problem. Having trouble with blood sugar is a very insidious problem. Like having high blood pressure. You don't know sometimes until it is too late.

YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS HAPPENING.

Unemployment will be yours. You can't fire the sick for being sick and not noticing they were sick because they were not use to their condition. You can only be denied unemployment for WILLFUL MISCONDUCT.

 

[Stoner4Life]

also it's a good idea to tell them you want your job back instead of unemployment benefits, your boss won't rehire you I'm sure but it puts your work attitude & ethic in a slightly different light than somebody @ the counter just wanting to collect their benefits.

and as far as YOU being responsible by accepting swing/grave shifts? bullshit! explain that you worked/accepted these shifts (against Drs orders) BECAUSE you were afraid of being terminated.


bro, be CALM @ every hearing and when addressing the court look directly into the eyes of your judge/administrator. a liar cannot keep eye contact, an overly excited man makes for a bad witness and perhaps in someones eyes a bad employee.......

 

[NOKUY]

thanks for the thoughts and advice guys.

....even after i was switched back to alternating shifts i constantly told my supervisor that i need to be taken back off of shift work, he understood, and they were trying to arrange that...i even got a 2nd/current letter from my doctor that they had requested.

as of today it's been 3 weeks since i applied for benefits, the status still says that it's "under review", but they have figured my benefit amt at 406/week....(not even half what i was making)...but better than nothing if i get it.

1 good thing tho...my next job wont have random UA's

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

and as far as YOU being responsible by accepting swing/grave shifts? bullshit! explain that you worked/accepted these shifts (against Drs orders) BECAUSE you were afraid of being terminated.

Who precisely is responsible for the negative consequences if one decides to ignore their doctor's recommendation?

The doctor? The 3rd party who asks them to go against the doctor?

Neither of those make any sense to me.

And if someone does something because they feared being terminated, does that somehow make them less responsible for what they have done?

I take Yukon at his word, but, it sounds like the employer used this situation as an opportunity to get rid of him for whatever reason. He is going to say, "I never fell asleep" and they are going to say "well his doctor said that could happen in this note he gave us here, someone witnessed it, and we offered him alternate shifts for as long as we could, we are the good guy" and the judge/mediator will have no reason whatsoever to not believe them.

 

[Stoner4Life]

Who precisely is responsible for the negative consequences if one decides to ignore their doctor's recommendation?

The doctor? The 3rd party who asks them to go against the doctor?

Neither of those make any sense to me.

And if someone does something because they feared being terminated, does that somehow make them less responsible for what they have done?

I take Yukon at his word, but, it sounds like the employer used this situation as an opportunity to get rid of him for whatever reason. He is going to say, "I never fell asleep" and they are going to say "well his doctor said that could happen in this note he gave us here, someone witnessed it, and we offered him alternate shifts for as long as we could, we are the good guy" and the judge/mediator will have no reason whatsoever to not believe them.

Yukon gets to look the judge in the eye and say, "but your honor my only alternative would have been to NOT show up for my shifts which is an offense I could be fired for."

His Drs notes were ignored by his employer, that it itself is a defenseless position to find themselves in.

I think that if Yukon presents his case properly and keeps his cool he'll prevail.

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Yukon gets to look the judge in the eye and say, "but your honor my only alternative would have been to NOT show up for my shifts which is an offense I could be fired for."

His Drs notes were ignored by his employer, that it itself is a defenseless position to find themselves in.

I think that if Yukon presents his case properly and keeps his cool he'll prevail.

Well that all sounds good, but the issue for the judge won't be who is cooler, it will be about Yukon falling asleep on the job or not, and thus was there misconduct which justifies a denial of benefits.

Unless it is illegal to ignore a doctor's recommendation, I doubt that will have any bearing on the outcome. And they did give Yukon different shifts for a while, so I think that wouldn't even make them look bad in the end. Really a 50/50.. They can't bend over backwards forever cause someone got diabetes. That person should find a job that works with their condition or doesn't force them to take shifts that put their health at risk.

There are programs in place for those who need to take extended leave for medical issues, but so far as I know, there are not really specific protections for anything which doesn't qualify as a disability. Even disabilities that can be corrected with drugs are not offered the standard protections, via the Supreme Court in 1999, so like, even if someday diabetes becomes a disability, it will be considered treatable with insulin or whatever and those people will *still* not be protected.

Have a look at this article and you will see that people are fired all the time for complications related to diabetes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/health/31iht-jan1diabetes.4059083.html?_r=1

Sorry but if the employer decides to be a dick about this and dispute the claim, those benefits will be denied.

And lets keep in mind, they already made the dick move to bs and say dude fell asleep and make the misconduct termination an easy claim, so I bet they will.

A discrimination lawsuit could happen then, but the odds of winning are ridiculously slim and it would cost a ton of money.

 

[Stoner4Life]

He actually developed his diabetes while working that job,
if I were Yukon I'd look into the effects of swing shift on the
body, the job could be the partial cause of his illness. imo
his case and position are both strong.......

I'd bring a couple of these studies along with you Yukon.
Any doubt on the part of the judges should be swayed
with substantial medical support.

Circadian Rhythms in Shift Workers and Diabetes​

Kate Matney​

Excluding the shifts of sailors and soldiers, before the Industrial Revolution work scheduling of non-daylight hours was unprecedented. However, since industrialists like Henry Ford implemented shift work to maximize profit at a 24-hour yield the popularity of scheduling irregular work hours has only grown. From 24-hour gas stations, to health care, to the more recent popularization of the "Call Industry," which allows phone purchasing at any hour, over 22 million Americans work on shift schedules (3,7.) Unfortunately, what is good for the economy comes at a human cost. As a group, shift workers are at a heightened risk for a montage of illnesses from gastrointestinal problems to depression (9.) Among the most concerning risks associated with disruption of a normal 24-hour rhythm is an increased risk for diabetes. Aside from ranking as the sixth leading cause of death in the United States, killing 73,249 people in 2001, Diabetes is strongly associated with the number one killer, heart disease (1,2.)

Although the complete etiology of increased diabetes in shift workers is not understood, the hazard of shift work is largely attributed to the disruption of the body's internal clock, or Circadian Rhythm. Just as pain is experienced by incongruence between the nervous system's expectations and input received by sensory neurons, disagreement between the internal clock expectations and actual activity (e.g. shift work; where the expectation is sleep and the activity is work) is disruptive of physiological functions. Since Diabetes is a metabolic disorder requiring the careful monitoring of the insulin-glucose equilibrium, disturbance of the body's rhythm is likely to de-stabilize glucose metabolism in diabetics. Furthermore, by encouraging de-synchronized eating patterns in non-diabetics shift work disrupts the insulin-glucose equilibrium and thus may heighten contraction risk.

Diabetes is a disorder in the metabolizing of the body's fundamental energy source, glucose. There are three types of diabetes. Type-one diabetes is an autoimmune disease most commonly found in youth and accounting for about 10% of diabetes cases. Type two diabetes, also known as adult onset diabetes, accounts for the remaining 90% of diabetes cases, most of which are adults. The third type of diabetes, gestational diabetes, afflicts pregnant women who are later at a heightened risk of developing type two diabetes. In all diabetes the hormone insulin, which is needed for glucose uptake from the blood to the cells, insufficiently facilitates the metabolizing of glucose. In the absence or malfunction of insulin, glucose remains un-metabolized in the blood. For this reason, hypoglycemia, or abnormally high levels of plasma glucose often diagnoses diabetics (4.) In type one diabetes glucose remains at unhealthy blood concentrations because insulin production is inhibited by an autoimmune attack of insulin-producing beta cells. In type-two diabetes enough insulin is produced, but for unknown reasons the individual is insulin intolerant, which means that normal insulin levels are not sufficient to facilitate the transport of glucose from blood into cells. (4.) Type two diabetes is most relevant to shift work hazards since it is more likely to develop throughout the adult lifetime rather than during childhood.

The Circadian Rhythm can be thought of as the mechanism by which the nervous system prepares for different activities throughout the day, including glucose metabolism. Largely controlled by the Suprachiasmatic Nucleus (SCN) of the Hypothalamus, the 24-hour clock is responsible for the release of 'sleepy' hormones around bedtime (i.e. melatonin), morning metabolizing hormones to provide energy after the night fast (i.e. cortisol) and the glucose-metabolizing hormone insulin at appropriate meal times (10.) Thus, the physiological rhythms of the body are significantly controlled by endogenous factors within the nervous system.

If no other influences contributed to the body clock, shift work might not be so physiologically disruptive. However, the Circadian Rhythm actually synchronizes the internal rhythm with external rhythms, most importantly light/dark cycles. In the case of glucose metabolism the circadian rhythm also synchronizes insulin release with meal times and activity level. In the absence of the external influences or "zeitgebers" (German for time givers,) for example in a consistently dark cave, the body's internal clock is actually cycling at a little under 24-hours (10.) Most people easily adjust to the approximate one-hour incongruence between their internal clock and the day cycle. However, a more significant incongruence of 12-hour differentials, as in shift-work, is not so easily overcome.

It is important to note the perpetually de-synchronizing nature of shift work in order to understand why adaptation is so problematic. Jet lag is also caused by discrepancy between the internal clock and external inputs and shares symptoms with shift work such as daytime sleepiness, depression, digestive problems and diminished alertness (8.) However, adjustment for shift workers is less complete. While travelers will eventually synchronize their Circadian Clock with zeitgebers, shift-workers' night schedules maintain constant internal/external disagreement. Also, while travelers may experience one cycle of de-synchronization, days off and inconsistent shift scheduling produce a consistently disruptive de-synchronization.

Furthermore, full-body adaptation is compounded by the different rates at which each function re-adjusts to environmental changes. While sleep/wake cycles most readily adjust, physiological functions, like metabolism, are slowest to change (10.) An example of the effects of differential rate adaptation is overcoming daytime sleepiness from jet lag while still experiencing gastrointestinal irregularities. Field studies show that physiological adaptation to shift work is incomplete. In fact, one study on body temperature rhythm showed that complete inversion did not result even after 21 consecutive shifts (10.) Circadian studies on isolated rat tissue suggests that there are clock controls within the insulin producing pancreas, rather than in the SCN or pineal gland of the central nervous system (CNS.) Evidence for tissue-level control mechanisms far removed from the conscious creating neocortex of the CNS potentially explains the difficulty in complete environmental adjustment to rhythm changes in shift workers.

Because diabetes' etiology is not fully understood, precise neurobiological mechanisms through which circadian rhythm disruption spurs development of the disease are unknown. However, research on high-risk factors, most significantly being overweight, (but also ethnicity, stress and old age,) is telling about the nature of diabetes' causes. Since diabetes is essentially a de-stabilization of the vital metabolic equilibrium between insulin and glucose it is probable that the malfunctioning is caused, or at least aggravated by, destabilizing inputs disruptive of metabolic equilibrium. This would explain the disease's association with both obesity and shift work. For overweight diabetics if neither the disease nor the weight condition is genetic it is likely that they are both, at least in part, a result of perpetual consumption of excess food, especially high-sugar and carbohydrate foods. Therefore, such individuals may have de-stabilized glucose metabolism because he/she has chronically stressed the glucose-insulin balance by system bombardment of excess glucose.

In viewing the circadian-insulin rhythm, it seems possible that shift work causes a comparable destabilization of the metabolic equilibrium. In vivo human experiments show that insulin secretion oscillates to match anticipated activity level for a normal day, showing greatest secretion during the light-hours (9.) Glucose-stimulated secretion peaks in the early morning and is maximized at meal times (10.) Since shift workers are more likely to consume greater quantities during working hours, rather than morning hours of peak secretion, these intrinsic circadian oscillations will not match activity level nor easily adjust to it. As with excess food consumption of over-weight diabetics, this de-synchronization (again, compounded by multiple de-synchronizations and differential physiological adjustment rates) will stress the glucose-insulin equilibrium. In shift workers the glucose-insulin system is probably overwhelmed by large meal consumption during the night when insulin levels are low while plasma glucose levels will be depleted during morning sleep when glucose metabolism is greatest.

Further neurologically controlled factors that are circadian controlled may disturb and aggravate healthy metabolic functioning and eventually increase diabetic risk in shift workers. Cortisol, a hormone involved in the metabolizing of stored energy is released on a 24-hour rhythm (5,10.) Like insulin, its secretion correlates with normally anticipated activity levels (5.) Secretion is greatest in the morning when night shift workers are least likely to need energy metabolism, while levels drop lowest before sleep, when night shift workers are likely to consume the most energy. Since cortisol secretion is also stress induced (5) metabolism may be further thrown off by emotional, psychological and physical strains of shift work.

Gastric emptying is also controlled circadeously, and experiments in rats show that maximized nutrient retention by slow digestion is affected by regular meal timing and ingestion of complex carbohydrates and proteins. Insulin affinity may actually be improved both by healthy choices and proper food timing relative to gastric emptying (10.) However, shift workers tend to have poorer diets, which is believe in part to be a result of decreased food availability. In addition, perhaps shift workers, tending to be of lower socio-economic classes, already maintain poorer diets and are therefore already at a higher contraction risk. It is further suspected that stress and fatigue result in increased junk-food consumption (6.)

The health crisis of shift work, especially as it relates to diabetes, is an extremely relevant topic both for medical research and socio-economic health politics. While the biggest killer in the U.S., heart disease, has decreased by over 30% in men over the past 30 years, the figure is cut in half for diabetic men. Even more alarming are the statistics in women, where the past thirty years shows a 30% overall decrease in heart disease but a 23% increase in diabetes (4.) The increased risk of shift workers for this increasingly hazardous epidemic calls attention to the ethical dilemma of lower-class health exploitation in the name of profit maximization. Furthermore, just as the symptom of obesity lead investigation in the un-mapped etiology of diabetes, the relationship between metabolic health and disruption of the Circadian Rhythm gives clues as to the importance of equilibrium in glucose metabolism.

link to report above


remember bro, good attitude "I want to work
your honor" & I think you should have in hand
the contacts you've recently made for work
since you've lost your job.

along with medical studies supporting your side
an isolated incident (falling asleep once) is really
not substantial enough to support termination.
If you have no other 'write ups' @ work then
bring that up as well & maybe insist that the HR
dept. provide documentation of that also.


Good luck Yukon, I think you have a very good
shot at getting some benefits or your job back
on day shift anyways.......

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Admitting he fell asleep on the job and then trying to blame the onset of his diabetes on the shifts he chose to take is just about the most suicidal strategy I could possibly imagine.

Employers who do this dirty shit know just what they are doing, and do it so that it cannot be challenged down the road, specifically to avoid paying more to their unemployment fund.

As I see it, Yukon has about a snowball's chance in hell of prevailing. Maaaaaaaaybe if the company has a history of doing this to good people, and the judge/mediator knows about it, then perhaps he could win if he insists he didn't fall asleep and they were just trying to get rid of him due to the diabetes complications.

Zero chance if he goes in there and admits falling asleep even once, or tries to pass the buck about getting diabetes in the first place. Even if it was the swing shifts, he chose to take them, before and after his doctor's recommendation.

 

[Rip Bong Winkle]

If the original poster is a fat ass he has no chance of winning. Judge will just see a lazy slob.

 

[Stoner4Life]

Admitting he fell asleep on the job and then trying to blame the onset of his diabetes on the shifts he chose to take is just about the most suicidal strategy I could possibly imagine.

Employers who do this dirty shit know just what they are doing, and do it so that it cannot be challenged down the road, specifically to avoid paying more to their unemployment fund.

As I see it, Yukon has about a snowball's chance in hell of prevailing. Maaaaaaaaybe if the company has a history of doing this to good people, and the judge/mediator knows about it, then perhaps he could win if he insists he didn't fall asleep and they were just trying to get rid of him due to the diabetes complications.

Zero chance if he goes in there and admits falling asleep even once, or tries to pass the buck about getting diabetes in the first place. Even if it was the swing shifts, he chose to take them, before and after his doctor's recommendation.

it's as if it's comin' outta your very own pocket.......

If the original poster is a fat ass he has no chance of winning. Judge will just see a lazy slob.

Yukon has a thin to muscular build, no fat.

 

[NOKUY]

...well i DID get the unemployment approved (without dispute)...prolly only reason being diabetic tho.

the chick asked lots of q's and hung on the part about them changing my schedule due to the doctors note.

(406 a week plus 25 buks federal stimulus)...what a fukin krok....im gonna milk it all hehe....

so....whopeee im diabetic and on unemployment....and skipped a job today...im oficially an american pos.