another intermatic post....

[XsublimeX]

First I want to apologize for making another thread on this topic,Ive made a few and theres tons on here, but tired of reading countless threads that kind of answer some of my questions, when a few quick answers will help me so much.

Ill be running either 8/3 from a 40A DPST or 10/3 from a 30A DPST at my main to a T104 or WH40 intermatic timer, I think ill be fine on 30A The run is less than 100 feet. All 240v.

I want to wire a timer board that consists of 4 timed 240v sockets (2 double gang boxes)timed 240v sockets as well as 4 timed 120v sockets (2 double gang boxes)

I would also like to have untimed 120v and 240v receptacles on my timer board. possibly for a/c or future equipment upgrades.
I may be able to use the 14/2 120v outlets already available for fans and other low draw equipment, But id rather just use my timer board.

I hope thats enough info for u guys to answer my questions im about to ask, but if not please post and I will follow up.

1. How exactly do i wire my 120v receptacles from my 240v source?
The only way that makes sense to me would be using one hot leg of the 240v to power one receptacle and the other hot leg to power the other one, and pigtail the ground and neutral. If all thats correct then im confused as to how to wire the 240v receptacles with 4 strands, 2 hots and a ground then what do I do with the neutral.

2 How do i wire untimed receptacles onto the same board from the same source? I envision pigtailing of the feeder cable, before the timer. Im not sure how that would be accomplished either.....

Despite these noobish questions Im actually pretty confident that I have a grasp of MOST of this stuff, Thanks entirely to this forum and the people posting in my threads.

 

[XsublimeX]

awe come on guys i know its a boring post but i could really use some advice.......

 

[JoeManixx]

This might help...

This might help...

You mean like this? You are correct in your guess. Run both phases through the 120V gang box, only connecting 1 phase. Then continue both phases to the timer and then to the 240V gang box. Make sense? If you need, I could open them up and try to get a good photo of the wiring. -Manixx

 

[T-type]

I think your setup is going to be a little more complicated than you think.

I am no electrician so wait for more sound advice, but....

You are going to need to run your 240 line to a sub panel, then run another 240 line from your sub to your timer for the timed 240 plugs.

I think you would need a separate timer to time your 120 line(not sure why you need these timed anyways?)


You wire your 120v receptacles with the two hot legs attached to where the hot and neutral should go and the ground is the same. The only difference is your using a hot instead of a neutral.

So anyways if you want to run 240v and 120v off the same feed line I am pretty sure you will need a sub panel to do it correctly.

Edit:
I guess you can do it ^^^
Guess I should keep my noob advice to myself

 

[PharmaCan]

Joe Manixx - clean wiring job, dude! K+! That looks about like what the OP wants to accomplish.

XsublimeX - just for the hell of it, can you give a quick run down on what you want to power. It's a lot easier to answer your questions with all the facts in hand.

PC

 

[XsublimeX]

thanks alot there mannixx, thats pretty much exactly what i need, and if u dont mind i would love to see the insides of the timers with that insulator flap turned up. Im a very visual learner Super clean and simple looking man, nice work. Thats exactly why i wanted to go this route.

Pharma-can I havent bought one peice of equipment yet, so i may change my mind and im sure ill add stuff i dont for see. thats why i want so many outlets. not to mention my breaker box has room for 1 240v double pole breaker....jack asses wired this house i swear, less that 300 watts on one 20a breaker.....

Anyways, the plan as it stands now is 2 400W magnetic ballasts using CMH lights, and 3-5 fans.
Its quite likely im going to NEED A/C, but im just not sure, im going to try my best to use the existing HVAC and draw cool air in my grow.
As long as i can maintain my temps ill be adding a 1k HPS very quickly. I have limited space but i really want make it shine......
This will be my first indoor grow of any size so im unsure what else ill need power for but i can only run one feeder cable the way my breaker box is layed out now and i have no interest at all in running more cable anyways.

Thanks for the input guys!!!!!

 

[JoeManixx]

np XsX, here you go.

PharmaCan, yeah man, that's American union labor there.

Hope that helps.

 

[XsublimeX]

im still confused....i feel like an idiot, but id rather fell stupid now than feel stupid after burnin the house down.....

ok so i see line nuetral to the "A" terminal and no load neutral coming off it what am i missing, i suspect it has somthing to do with my question....
Why is there a white wire coming off terminal "4", is that X/3 MC coming and just X/2 going out?
I dont see how im going to have timed/untimed 120/240v from that setup.
Im just not fully wrapping my mind around this somehow, I really want to understand what im doing fully and not just copy and repeat someone elses work
My timer i bought came with a coupon for 3 intermatic manuals from their company one specifically for electromechanical timers like this and they are on the way!

 

[XsublimeX]

Wait wait You only have your 240 timed so that is just X/2 for the load cable rite

HAha i think im gettin it!!

 

[JoeManixx]

Sounds like you've got it licked.

Best advice, hire a sparky. Even if you just have one look at your work before you light it up, it's worth the dough.

Mayeb you can find one that'll work out a trade.

Good luck! -Joe

 

[XsublimeX]

Best advice, hire a sparky. Even if you just have one look at your work before you light it up, it's worth the dough.

Good luck! -Joe

thats the plan! Madpenguin has helped my quite a bit in the electricity sticky up top. Id fell confident posting a pic and letting him approve it.

ill probably still show an electrician in real life just to make sure but im scared of asking a stranger to build it for but safty and security. Id also feel alot safer operating something i understand.

Does anyone else have input?

 

[PharmaCan]

You seem to have most of this figured out, the timer part anyway...

If you look at his board, he has emt going into a 4plex receptacle box. That would be the power coming in and the unswitched receptacles. Then on to the timer, etc. as you've seen.

Ever hear of slimline breakers? It's two breakers that take the place of one, freeing up space in your panel. Although, you don't really need it for this gig. You've got plenty of juice for what you have in mind. 1800 watts @ 240v is only 7.5 amps. I think I'd go with the 40 amp set-up. Remember, you can only use 80% of that for this type of operation. Chit man, with 40 amps you'll be flippin 4k 24/7 in no time. lol

PC

 

[XsublimeX]

You seem to have most of this figured out, the timer part anyway...

If you look at his board, he has emt going into a 4plex receptacle box. That would be the power coming in and the unswitched receptacles. Then on to the timer, etc. as you've seen.

Ever hear of slimline breakers? It's two breakers that take the place of one, freeing up space in your panel. Although, you don't really need it for this gig. You've got plenty of juice for what you have in mind. 1800 watts @ 240v is only 7.5 amps. I think I'd go with the 40 amp set-up. Remember, you can only use 80% of that for this type of operation. Chit man, with 40 amps you'll be flippin 4k 24/7 in no time. lol

PC

yea i think im deffinatly getting this shit down now

My breaker box is actually totally full and im in the process of getting duplex breakers, but the guy at lowes tried to tell me theres 2 diff kinds, while the electric supply house said not really......

and i really do hope to be flippin that 4k like u mentioned but i dont want get in over my head on my first grow.....

The only thing holding me back from the 40 amp setup is the damn 8/3 romex. Its a pain to work with and costs like 2x the 10/3, but id rather that than run another breaker, I know its a real pain getting 8ga. to fit receptacles, and im sure it wont be easy to get into the intermatics terminals.

 

[grow nerd]

No anti-short bushing on the MC to the left?

 

[PharmaCan]

You don't run #8 to the receptacles. You pig-tail off with #12 or #14 and connect that to your receptacles.

PC

 

[XsublimeX]

You don't run #8 to the receptacles. You pig-tail off with #12 or #14 and connect that to your receptacles.

PC

ive kinna had it pounded in to use the same size wire throughout the circuit. Granted using #8 for the entire circuit seems nearly impossible. Seems like #10 is as small as I would allow. It can handle 30 amps and that seems quite acceptable, #12 and #14 seems grossly underpowered to me

 

[sparkjumper]

Pharma is right use 12 AWG you wont even be able to get 8 AWG behind the wire terminals

 

[PharmaCan]

ive kinna had it pounded in to use the same size wire throughout the circuit. Granted using #8 for the entire circuit seems nearly impossible. Seems like #10 is as small as I would allow. It can handle 30 amps and that seems quite acceptable, #12 and #14 seems grossly underpowered to me

What I'm saying is you run your #8 or #10 to the receptacle box, then pig-tail off to the individual receptacles with the #12. As you start breaking up the circuit - distributing the load - you can start using progressively smaller wire. You don't want to undersize the wires, there's just no sense dicking around and making things difficult with wires that are bigger than what you need.

PC

 

[XsublimeX]

Im going to copy manixx's setup as much as i can, its all i need for now and it looks so nice!
The only other thing i may need is more receptacles, simply becuase i wont using all 1k lights and 4 timed receptacles hopefully wont be enough but i cant go overboard,atleast not to start with.
I guess the reason im so hung up on using such heavy Ga. cable is because I see the main load go to the timed 240V receptacles.
So just to be clear my run will be
40 amp dpst breaker->8/3 romex->12/2 pigtails for untimed 120v->
8/2 MC cable->t104->8/2 MC->pigtailed 10/2 to the individual 240v receptacles.
The untimed 120v is only for convenience, if all goes well there will only be timed lights on it soon anyways.
Im hoping to get the 8 Ga. wire to fit by using crimp on forks, they r nice and flat and SHOULD fit just fine, please correct me if im missing something here. I understand about splitting the loads to different receptacles, but if Im only using one load cable and pigtailing it to 2 receptacles (4 plugs) and timing nearly 4k on that board then doesnt that that single load cable carry the entire load, and require more than 30A. By my math it does, rite at 80% of 40A actually. So 8 Ga. just seems the safest. hopefully the crimp on forks will work, I can see why they wouldnt.
Im stoned and tired and rambling, I hope all that shit i typed makes sense. I just need to get a few more bucks together and ill go buy everything to wire this board up and post a pic....
Thanks alot for the interest guys im still along way from growin so im sure ill have more questions too.

 

[XsublimeX]

what am I gonna use to pop out the knock outs on the bottom of this timer? They r not stamped out and that outer housing is pretty damn hard. I know i can use a metal punch but i dont have one and its pretty clear my dremels not cuttin it either.......ack