DIY Under Current 8 site XL

[seek_UP]

What up ic'ers. If you've been reading the forums, you've surely seen a thread or two on grows done in the newer Under Current culture bucket systems. You've probably also seen that this system is probably the best for growing trees.

The problem??? the price tag of $1,200 is a little steep for the hobbie gardner. The goal of this thread is a step by step DIY pictorial so that you can build your own unit of the same quality as (or better than) the original. I'll also add some info I've picked up from the various threads about what tweaks people are making, etc.. so you can get the most bang from your bux and so you can put other folks' beta testing to work for you

I'll start with links to the parts you'll need for this system. All in all, the parts for this will run you about $400.00, not including the air pump. The real system comes with a Danner (pondmaster) AP-60 or 100 *depending on how many buckets* but I've read this pump has been failing on people after 5 to 6 months. These pumps are about $150.00 each and you can get a comparable performing sunleaves pump for about $50.00. ***** EDIT - stay away from the sunleaves air compressor type pumps. they are loud as shit, create heat in the room from the actual pump, and pump hot air through the air stones!!*****

Parts for 8 site system:

8 - EZ Store 8 gallon pail with lid. (the real system uses one of these for the controller bucket/rez as well, however, I recommend an 18 gallon "brute" rubbermd tub for two reasons. 1) these ez stores are $20.00 each and 2) they have to be ordered in quantities of 4. Also, it will be nice to have little more capacity in the controller/rez if you don't use an external top-up rez..

www.chdist.com item number 7497600 (which includes the lid). Search google for a discount code for chdist, they are out there all the time for either 10% or 15%. Woot! $20.70 each prior to any discount code.

18 - Uniseal model U200 for 2" PVC. Do not attempt this system without these seals. IMHO, if you have to glue it, it's kind of ghetto and asking for problems in a hydro system...

http://www.aussieglobe.com/uniseal3.htm $4.06 each

1 - PVC "tee" 2" slip x 2" slip x 3/4" FNPT

http://www.grainger.com item number 5WNZ0 $3.66

1 - PVC 3/4" MNPT to 3/4" barbed hose adapter.

http://www.grainger.com item number 6MM80 $1.03

1 - Mag-drive pondmaster 9.5 water pump

http://www.marineandreef.com item number RDF02710 $89.99

1 - 10' long 2" sched 40 PVC pipe

Home Depot under $10.00

4 - 2" PVC slip elbows

Hope Depot under $10.00

1 - 3/4" barbed "tee"

Home Depot $3.50 (in the plumbing section near the facet repair stuff)

The above represents the main system parts. As I said before, you need to decide what air pump you want. I don't recommend the Pondmaster as people have been reporting early failures, and their around three times the cost of a sunleaves.

Misc. items:

9 - air stones. I like the short fat cylindrical ones but to each their own. feww bux each

1/4" air line. I always get the 100' roll. you may be able to get by with 50'.

10' of 3/4" corrugated tubing for suction side of pump (trust me when I tell you that normal vinyl tubing will indeed flatten like a pancake under this amount of suction

XX' of 3/4" tubing to connect your chiller, if required. Chiller is connected to output side of water pump and pushing through the chiller

6" or 8" net baskets. $3.00 to $5.00 each


Tools:

3" hole saw (a new sharp one is best) for the uniseals.
sand paper to clean up holes for uniseals.
hacksaw or other means of cutting PVC pipe
PVC glue and cleaner
spray bottle of soapy water (for getting 2" pipe into uniseals).
5/16" drill bit for air lines.
9/16" drill bit for drilling hole in rez for return from water pump


That'll get anyone going that wants to get the parts tracked down. I'll be putting up a step by step soon but the system is actually pretty basic once you have the parts. Each bucket has two 3" holes on either side for the uniseals and a section of 2" PVC (with PVC cut at 45 degree angle on the part that goes inside the buckets). The PVC coming out of the end buckets on each row's end connect to an elbow making a loop of PVC sections going through each bucket and back to the rez. on one end of the loop, you have the rez/controller and you have the speacialty reducing "tee" on the opposite side of the loop. The water pump sits outside the rez and pulls water from the reducing tee (sucking it through the 2" returns) and spits it back into the rez (you can add a chiller here if needed). The 3/4" barbed tee goes on the inside the rez on the 3/4" tubing spitting water back into the rez. Each bucket has a stone and so does the rez.. easy, clean, and pimpin....

 

[max_well]

Hey Bro
Sounds good.. I'm interested in this system too, possibly to DIY.
I've read some threads elsewhere with people wanting to upgrade the pumps in the system (both air and water). I'm curious how you picked the water pump you linked; it's 950 gph-- I think that the stock pumps that are included with the system are graded by the number of buckets (and thus the length of the tube they are pulling from). I've been looking at Pan World inline pumps which are lower gph/$ .. but get great reviews as being quiet and running cool:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi..._campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=JW1123

I've read good things about Alita airpumps-- they are a bit pricey, but look like they're built to last.

What do you plan to do for the lids to hold the net cups? I think they could be hard to cut cleanly, particularly if they are for 8" netcups, as i don't think hole saws that big are easy to come by. Would the stock lids that come with the EZ Stor buckets be strong enough to support a heavy tree? I wonder if the folks at Current Culture would supply lids for someone looking to DIY.
Also, do you have a link / install info about the float valve?
thanks again for getting this going
Max

 

[seek_UP]

on the stock lids, I think they will be strong enough as the ez-stores are marketed as stackable when loaded. As far as cutting the hole, I'm not quite sure yet... There's always the exacto knife heated with an alchohol lamp... maybe best would be to get something metal of the exact size you need, then pressing that (like with an actual press or make-shift press) into and through the lid. Could maybe make a quick press with a floor jack and some kind of jig. I think making the hole slightly smaller that the basket so that the basket sticks out of the top of the lid by about an inch would help with strength. This way, the net basket aint goin into the hole all the way no matter what happens...

on the water pump, I'm pretty sure that's what they use for the 8 site and no one i've seen is complaining about the water pumps being shoddy. but, im always lookin to save a buck or three..

on the float valve... you can get that any hydro shop. you just drill the hole in the rez and the float valve goes though like a bulkhead fitting. the outside goes to tubing running to a gravity feed from a larger rez then you set the top-up level by bending the arm of the float valve to your liking.. easy-peazy

you can also easily (and quickly) drain the system by hooking up a hose to the pump line coming back to the rez.. emptying the rez at 800 to 900 gph should be nice and painless..

 

[max_well]

on the stock lids, I think they will be strong enough as the ez-stores are marketed as stackable when loaded. As far as cutting the hole, I'm not quite sure yet... There's always the exacto knife heated with an alchohol lamp... maybe best would be to get something metal of the exact size you need, then pressing that (like with an actual press or make-shift press) into and through the lid. Could maybe make a quick press with a floor jack and some kind of jig. I think making the hole slightly smaller that the basket so that the basket sticks out of the top of the lid by about an inch would help with strength. This way, the net basket aint goin into the hole all the way no matter what happens...

on the water pump, I'm pretty sure that's what they use for the 8 site and no one i've seen is complaining about the water pumps being shoddy. but, im always lookin to save a buck or three..

on the float valve... you can get that any hydro shop. you just drill the hole in the rez and the float valve goes though like a bulkhead fitting. the outside goes to tubing running to a gravity feed from a larger rez then you set the top-up level by bending the arm of the float valve to your liking.. easy-peazy

you can also easily (and quickly) drain the system by hooking up a hose to the pump line coming back to the rez.. emptying the rez at 800 to 900 gph should be nice and painless..

Sounds good.
My concern about the water pumps wearing out comes from a thread I read on thcf**mer started by Texas Kid (real expert) about his first experiences with the system (8xl).. some discussion late in the thread about upgrading water pumps..
Have you seen the new layout that UnderCUrrent has come out with called the 'evolution'.. it's a more square shaped layout-- looks like it uses 2 "epicenters" and 2 water pumps. I like this design to fit my 12' X 12' room, and I'm even wondering about the possibility of adding another row,to make a setup that is 4 buckets x 4 buckets:.. I think this would require yet another pump line and epicenter.. what do you think?

 

[seek_UP]

hell yea, that looks nice for larger spaces. did you see this video on their site (actually a youtube video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biAd-mgnXjQ&feature=player_embedded

It shows "custom" lids made from flat plastics and the lid rests on the inner lip of the buckets... That opens up a lot of possibilities to this system.

 

[seek_UP]

ok, current culture actually sells the newer style one piece lids from the video i linked above for $12 each. i'd say they're worth getting..

 

[max_well]

ok, current culture actually sells the newer style one piece lids from the video i linked above for $12 each. i'd say they're worth getting..

Thanks bro
Did you find a link to the lids for sale? I can't seem to find one.

thanks
Max

 

[Mickymouse]

Im running a under current for my veg room.I make my pots out of beer cups then toss them when Im done.I like the taller cups for veg .If your seedling streaches you can plant deeper. No clean up.I used these square tubs from Lowes that work great.Getting ready to do 5 gal buckets for my flower room.You could DIY it to any size system and or bucket size.I pump the water from the rez through a chiller into the first bucket.Just follow a loop back to rez.

 

[seek_UP]

maxwell, they don't have the lids on their site as of yet but you can either call them and get them shipped or have your local shop call and order them for you. i may try to make some out of black plexiglass first.

 

[seek_UP]

thats a pretty sweet setup there mickey. i like those square bins. do you have problems getting those roots to let go of each other when it comes time to move them?

 

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perfect tool for cutting net basket holes

perfect tool for cutting net basket holes

ok... i've tried pretty much all the ways you can think of to cut nice holes in plastic for net baskets.. put all my trial and error to use for yourself

The Malco HC1 is a device used to cut perfect circles in sheet metal for HVAC work. They sell it at home depot or lowes for about $50, which is kind of expensive, but it will last a long time. it's basically a drill bit in a jig that is adjustable by diameter of the hole you want. drill a guide hole in the center of your intended circle then put the center pivot in that hole. Then the drill bit side cuts which the jig spins on that pivot point. perfect holes that dont even require de-burring. sooooo nice..

http://www.comfortgurus.com/images/hc1.jpg

 

[LoudBlunts]

hole saws?

 

[LifeOblivious]

AIR PUMPS
The reason that the pondmaster pumps are so pricey, or i should say that the sunleaves (piston) pump is so cheap is because the sunleaves is an air compressor. Which creates a whole other issue of noise and heat. The Pondmaster/Alita style pumps put out less heat and are very quite. just depends on your situation. The Alita pumps are even more expensive but are dead silent. That is something i am willing to pay extra for.

Here is a link for the danner and alita pumps.
https://nationalpondsupply.com/c-23-linear-air-pumps.aspx

There are two lines Supreme Air and Pondmaster(a couple bucks more) these pumps are a bit louder than a fridge humming at 40db.

Danner AP-20 441gph $90
Danner AP-40 753gph $119
Danner AP-60 1428gph $140

Alita pumps are quiter than a fridge humming at 36-38db
40L (760gph $153)
60L (1078gph $185)

Hope this helps as this is info I have hunted down over the last 6 grulling hours. I am going to choose between the danner or alita 40 or 60 . Hard choice.

 

[seek_UP]

@life- thanks for that. i have found the sunleaves is waaaay too loud and generates so much heat, the hose going to the stones is hot to the touch. I just ordered a danner AP-100. hopefully it's not overkill. never heard of the alita line before, i'll check that out. thanks for the heads up.

@ loud blunts - i've done the hole saw thing. it's a racket. to get the larger sizes (like over 4"), you have to buy each one seperately for $25 on up to $45 for a 6". this adds up quick as far as cost goes. plus, I've found that using a hole saw on thinner plastic (like a bucket lid) is a PIA as you can't put alot of downward pressure on it without cracking the lid. also, you have to clean it up after as the new hole is all chewed up. the hc1 makes a nice clean hole and doesn't use any downward pressure at all. plus, it cuts sheet metal like butter as well. if you make the move to square/rectangular ducting trunks and feed your round ducting off that, you'll need an HC1 anyway. the square duct trunks are soooooooooooooo much quieter that using round ducting for the hole run.. something to due with the air pressure equalizing in the rectangular duct work cuts the turbulance from the round ducting going to the lights.

 

[EstimatedProph]

Wow man those ladies have some beautiful fish bone roots going nice job man. Thanks for the tutorial K+

 

[RugerBaby]

do you guys think this system is overkill for a 4x4 tent with a 600 hps? Im currently using coco but I like the growth rate with this sytem!!

 

[seek_UP]

it could be done easily with a 4 plant sites and one control bucket. top-up rez outside the tent. with a 4 site, you could probably get by with a 500 gph water pump and an AP-40 air pump.

 

[seek_UP]

ok... pics are up.. edited the first two posts so most of the pics would be in the beginning of the thread for passers-by.. here's the final, cleaned-up setup at my boy's place. I must say, this is a slick, clean, and overall bad-ass system. starting with fresh water, then adding nutes and ph down, everyhting was equally distributed in all buckets within 2 minutes. there is no other DWC system that does that, period. it's so bad-ass it may give you a chubby...

hopefully this will help someone out. ok ic-ers, be good to your brothers and sisters, I'm out

 

[LoudBlunts]

nice work!

 

[darwinsbulldog]

man sweet tutorial, think i'm going to have to build one of these soon