AK @ 46 days, fans drying out + curling upwards

[MoeBudz^420]

Hey, I'm having an issue with my AK, she's now at 47 days. (pic was yesterday, has been slowly progressing for a couple weeks no matter what I do - more food, less, no changes)

The buds look ok, but the large fanleaves are rust spotting, then drying and curling upwards from the tips in. They are not yellowing, just drying out. Some of the spotting is now progressing to the budleaves, but they are not drying out or curling. (yet)

Plants are under 400W, being fed bloom A+B hydro/aero nutes at 1/2 str, each watering in promix bx. (basically handwatered hydro) I do not have a ppm meter, I've been going by how the plants respond. All has been well right from the get-go thru veg + bloom - until recently.

The c99's in there recieve the same, and are unaffected + healthy despite being closer to the lights. The AK's curling can be seen in this pic...




PH going in is about mid 6-s, and run off, low 6's...I am not too concerned as they'll be done soon, but would like to nip it in the "bud"...


Peace

 

[kingspade]

in my experience, that means high temps.
put your thermometer at the same level as the plants are.
what's the temperature of the air? you got enough fans? moving air?

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Highest temp was 77F, lowest at lights off 68. The thermo sensor is kept just above canopy level, has been since day 1.

A small fan circulates inside air making plants gently sway. My scrubber has a 250 cfm fan built in, and the duct also has a 250 cfm inline booster fan. Airflow is not the problem. Airflow and exhaust are so good I cannot smell these, even standing right beside the tent - and we all know how stinky AK is...

Whatever it is - Just wanted to have an idea for next time, no biggie really. They'll be done before they get too bad I think. Just waiting for more pistils to turn and calyx's to swell.

Then we start scoping trichs...


Peace

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Hmm.

That sounds like an availability issue, leaning toward the "too much of something" (burned) side.

A cannabis plant will use the most amount of nutrients earlier in the budding stage than you are. Think of an arc, like the flight of a golf ball after being hit, or a ball being thrown. Like those arcs, the plants requirements will begin to decline, however if availability of those chemicals is still high, issues may occur.

Additionally even more than primary nutrient requirements change, micro nutrient and enzyme requirements change more. All I mean by that is that it's also possible that a chemical generated by your present nutrient levels may also be causing the issue, so it may even be something you aren't knowingly adding.

Your plant is dying . . . but it's programmed too. Just it's life cycle. Right now it's still budding, of course, but the life support systems are wearing out, it's stress resistance is falling . . . I think in the case of your plant up until recently it was able to handle the nutrient levels without issue, but you may be beginning the downward arc of the nutrient requirements and if you haven't already you might try backing off on the feeding and seeing if the issue arrests.

 

[msd828]

Defan those bitches!!

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Defan those bitches!!

Why? I can't imagine the reasoning . . .

 

[arrg]

Defan those bitches!!

I still don't understand why people yank off the fans all the time. They are the solar panels of the plant and make the energy but people think they need to get yanked?

 

[msd828]

On the last couple of weeks there not really getting energy or food from the big huge fans. I'm not sayin make them naked but ya take off 50% of those fans and I gaurantee ur buds will only swell up. Ull also be spreading light to other buds in the shade. Only making them bigger and denser.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

On the last couple of weeks there not really getting energy or food from the big huge fans. I'm not sayin make them naked but ya take off 50% of those fans and I gaurantee ur buds will only swell up. Ull also be spreading light to other buds in the shade. Only making them bigger and denser.

Those last few weeks they're not getting energy from the fans? Of course they are! Right up till the end, that's why they're there.

Removing fans to expose bud sites to light is somewhat erroneous, as light isn't immobile, energy is transmitted from areas that receive light to areas that don't, exposing more areas that don't without removing areas that do (get enough light) will be better yet.

Why do you believe that removing fans causes buds to swell? What is the scientific explanation of that?

 

[hazy]

47 days? I wouldn't stress it too much. What's AK go to? 60? Dang near time to flush anyway. And those are nice looking buds. However, I would not let the pH go over 6.5. ...not much or often anyway.

 

[msd828]

They have plenty of food from the other fans and plant body. They are def not feeding off every fan in the room.
Do what u feel is right for your situation, I'm just sayin its worked for me much better than leaving them on.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

They have plenty of food from the other fans and plant body. They are def not feeding off every fan in the room.
Do what u feel is right for your situation, I'm just sayin its worked for me much better than leaving them on.

Cannabis, late-middle stage of flower can and WILL utilize every fan leaf, nature made them that way. Not every plant will, but I assure you you're not speeding anything up by removing fan leaves. You're inducing stress . . . which is seldom beneficial in cannabis.

Other fruiting plants, like peppers for instance, can have stunted crops when leaves are removed, intentionally or otherwise. It's easy to notice stunting in a plants like peppers because you've seen proper peppers and have something to compare them too.

In cannabis the effects may not be as noticeable, but unless cannabis is unlike other plants in every way, the "removing fan leaves" should officially changed to: "Repositioning/bending and hiding fan leaves"

It worked much better than leaving them on? I'm not trying to argue, but can we see the evidence?

Science doesn't support your claim, so having evidence that proves this is spite of being illogical and unsupported is crucial to your argument. Can we see some pics?

Its infinitely more likely that any difference you saw between buds finished with fans and without is due to some other (possible overlooked) environmental or genetic factor.

Just sayin'

 

[msd828]

How bout this. I've got some babies right now in week 2. I won't defan one and ill post up some pics. It works for me.
I also feel like it depends on ur system and style. If ur doing big outs I wouldn't defan abunch til the last week, but if ur doin small ins with small veg time and training ya I would defan the last couple weeks.

 

[tokinafaty420]

Looks like they are just too close to the light. Getting a bit heat stressed out in my opinion. The only other time I ever saw leaves sticking up is when they are " Praying for Magnesium " as we used to say on OG, but they won't curl up over like they are.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

If ur doing big outs I wouldn't defan abunch til the last week, but if ur doin small ins with small veg time and training ya I would defan the last couple weeks.

I don't get it, where do you come up with this? I'm guessing that aside from cannabis you've never grown any other plant, ever. Even if you have, it's still clear you don't see the whole botanical picture here. Cannabis is a flowering herb those fan leaves are EVEN MORE critical on your plants grown indoors in constricting containers.

You may not have any evidence, but at least PLEASE explain why you think this benefits the plant?

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like I can convince you that science proves your theory wrong 100% of the time.

Removing fan leaves that could just as easily be bent and moved will never be beneficial to a flowering cannabis plant and most CERTAINLY will not increase yield or quality.

 

[Frozenguy]

Those last few weeks they're not getting energy from the fans? Of course they are! Right up till the end, that's why they're there.

Removing fans to expose bud sites to light is somewhat erroneous, as light isn't immobile, energy is transmitted from areas that receive light to areas that don't, exposing more areas that don't without removing areas that do (get enough light) will be better yet.

Why do you believe that removing fans causes buds to swell? What is the scientific explanation of that?

If you cut the fan leaf, and more light gets exposed to the that bud site or part of the plant, it will beef up that area to adjust because it is now in a good location to gather energy too. So it adjusts because its in a new area, not necessarily because it is now getting energy because you are right, the plant sends energy to places that dont get any.

but the reason you get popcorn bud is because those are like the buds on welfare. The plant sends some energy down there but not a lot because it needs to feed the big colas on top so they can in turn produce energy and also reproduce better.

So if you cut a fan leaf, and expose a lower area, the plant will say ok youre off welfare and here is a job.

Ok that was a poor analogy, but i hope you get my point.

BTW, I dont defan, but I do trim a couple off. I think a balance is key.

 

[arrg]

If you cut the fan leaf, and more light gets exposed to the that bud site or part of the plant, it will beef up that area to adjust because it is now in a good location to gather energy too. So it adjusts because its in a new area, not necessarily because it is now getting energy because you are right, the plant sends energy to places that dont get any.

but the reason you get popcorn bud is because those are like the buds on welfare. The plant sends some energy down there but not a lot because it needs to feed the big colas on top so they can in turn produce energy and also reproduce better.

So if you cut a fan leaf, and expose a lower area, the plant will say ok youre off welfare and here is a job.

Ok that was a poor analogy, but i hope you get my point.

BTW, I dont defan, but I do trim a couple off. I think a balance is key.

I thought light is much weaker at a greater distance so does that make the light that reaches the lower branches much less effective?

 

[Frozenguy]

I thought light is much weaker at a greater distance so does that make the light that reaches the lower branches much less effective?

Yeah you can consider it "weaker" for our purposes, the greater the distance from the lamp you get.

But that part of the plant still will receive more light and it will adjust to a degree. Not as much as if it was on the top, but more then if it was in the shade under a fan leaf.

You can also bend them away and train them, but I know most plants love a bit of trimming to a degree.

Plus if you are running a 600 or especially a 1000, light on buds 1-2 feet down from the main cola isn't that much weaker, unless its being blocked by foliage.

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Thanx guys, I was thinking 1 of 3 things, underfeed, overfeed or fan/lightburn, leaning towards the last 2. I'm not going to remove undamaged fans, & I let the plant tell me when it wants to discard a damaged leaf.

I basically just jiggle the damaged leaves, and if the plant wants to shuck em, they fall off. If not, & they are still firmly attached, I'll leave em on. I have only lost a handful of lower leaves so far, the plants were flipped Feb 22, and have no yellowing yet, but will once I flush in approx 15-20 days.

Thanx again for all the input ppl..


Peace

 

[herbaholic]

It is undoubtedly HEAT-STRESS. Don't cut any fans off and shame on all of you for hi-jacking this thread and making it apart of the "remove or don't remove" argument which will be going on until the end of time.

HEAT-STRESS is the OP problem so instead of bitching at each other for lack of evidence help the guy out.

I have been dealing with heat stress atm and it looks exactly the same. Move your light up or figure out how your getting the wrong temps because I highly doubt it isn't getting hotter than 76 at the canopy.

expect damaged areas to get crispy if the problem isn't going away and hope that your buds don't dry out and turn crispy