If the numbers are getting to you don't do it, grow small, nothing wrong with that.
MAX YIELD = Less Plants & Long Veg OR More Plants & Short Veg???
- Thread starter Fraggle Rock
- Start date
I think a dense flat canopy filled with many many tops with little light penetrating far down will yield you the most, how you achieve that dosnt make to much of a difference, be it lots of small packed in single stemmed plants of few large wide topped pruned bent plants.
or you could do vertical, but thats another story
i have a pic to demonstrate my point some where
One plant trained to have many tops, creating a flat canopy when packed together like the 2nd pic
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or you could do vertical, but thats another story
i have a pic to demonstrate my point some where
One plant trained to have many tops, creating a flat canopy when packed together like the 2nd pic
Willie Dean
Member
Thx HC. The hesitancy on the numbers isn't much of a consideration. It needs to be big as it has to replace my current large income, I was going to go to CO, but it seems they are really screwing it up over there, so I am waiting on the next middle-of-the-country state to open up. Then we are off to the races!
Wow Row that's beautiful! That technique sounds like a lot more work though. I will probably have to keep it as simple as possible, because of the size of the operation.
BTW thanks to Fragle Rock for starting this thread. I got a lot of questions answered already.
sour power
Active member
no bull shit if you run a stadium sog you will out yeild bushs all day.me personally will never try it lol.what stops me is the thought what if! what if i get caught with 50 plants or 250 plants.50 plants worse case a few years.250 plants club fed here i come.considering i already did time for drugs the feds would love for me to be a guest.im all set.i give it to any american that has the balls to rock a sog and still sleeps good at night.man o man i wish.if i didnt have kids and a criminal record i'd give it a whirl.anyways a stadium sog hands down out yeilds light for light.look at it this way. for walls 4x4 with 64 clones on each wall with a vertical 1000hps.thats 256 clones recieving the same amout of light.need i say more you do the math
How is this poll 50/50? I thought it was common knowledge SOG is the most efficient grow style as far as yield/time is concerned. Is that not true?
I agree, harvest every 7 weeks for my grow.
I don't think there is much debate as to which one yields more....A well run SOG will over time, but it has to be well run with no down time and the ability to make hundreds of clones....
The question is, is the extra yield worth the penalties associated with higher plant numbers...
The question is, is the extra yield worth the penalties associated with higher plant numbers...
I think the higher plant numbers = higher penalties is an obvious factor, but this poll is about yield, and that's it.
maxima32
Member
I believe from my experience it depends on ceiling and type of genetics your working with. I veg for longer periods in larger pots and tend to get more yield per plant because i got lots of ceiling height. But I know for a fact that many gardeners use smaller pots and more plants and get great results as i do . There are just so many variables to take into account. So many techniques, pruning methods and genes that a grower has access to . One thing i have noticed is this, the more plants the more tending per square foot ! Do the math .
Per plant yield is definitely going to be higher with longer veg times, but there is per plant yield, and there is yield per year.
Maxima32 I agree with you completely except for the last sentence.
In SOG single cola type grows with ebb/flow the only work I do is trim lateral growth 2 weeks into 12/12 then just let them go until they finish.
Happy growing, no disrespect intended.
Got to agree on that one too.
If you're hauling so much water that it's affecting your back maybe you should look into some barrels and pumps.
2-4 plants, per 1k bare bulb vert...
preferably, 2-5k per 4 plants... ac...
veg plants under same 1k's, 24/0...until min 1 cubic meter plant mass...
flower & finish @ 5x5x5-6x6x6'...
gh nutes, ph 5.0-5.5, input... 1.0+ ec...
end.
cultivar selection very important, as mentioned.
not all plants grow into bushy trees.
find that 1 & mono-crop.
preferably, 2-5k per 4 plants... ac...
veg plants under same 1k's, 24/0...until min 1 cubic meter plant mass...
flower & finish @ 5x5x5-6x6x6'...
gh nutes, ph 5.0-5.5, input... 1.0+ ec...
end.
cultivar selection very important, as mentioned.
not all plants grow into bushy trees.
find that 1 & mono-crop.
Care to be any more specific *mistress*? How long do you veg to achieve 1 cubic meter? I know it differs by strain, but what kind of range are you looking at? And what kind of yields are you looking at like that?
I don't think there is much debate as to which one yields more....A well run SOG will over time, but it has to be well run with no down time and the ability to make hundreds of clones....
Why dont you read my whole post...
I did read your whole post, and replied to your comment on penalties. Why don't you read the title of this thread? No need to repost the exact same thing again.
The fact that this poll is just about 50/50 with over 200 replies shows that there appears to be some debate on the matter.
The fact that this poll is just about 50/50 with over 200 replies shows that there appears to be some debate on the matter.
selection
maybe, begin w/ ~5 (~49, total) full pack pack of very different bean.
maybe, prior to sow, already determine that eliminate 44... & only potentially keep 5 total... or 9.99% of total population... this, generally elite...
even if there 6th plant, that purple, etc, etc, still eliminated, due to best 9.99% criteria...
now, maybe, in fiction, have ~5 mums... run this 5, ~three cycles...
select best plants branches from the original mums... ea variety have branch that perform best, & branch that weaker... select best branch, but keep weakest branch as well, to compare, later...
so, now, maybe have original cut, fromm seed plant, & strongest & weakest branches... noted & separated by growth patterns (traits)...
then, run only best branches, 2-3 cycles...
to find which ph, ec, temps, air circulation, fertilizers, etc, those selected cultivars prefer... if sex changes if take to 70+ days, if get over 100*f, what happen, if keep 78*f day+night, what happen... if run 24/0, 22/2, or even 16/12 in flower, what happen... if get 2-4" away from 1k, w/ lots of air flow, what happen... how long before burn vs. distance of plant-light, how frequent they like turning, how much stakes/wirde needed to support 2 meter plant, etc... how much nitrogen to feed, when to foliar the calcium, etc...
then, select best branch off best plant(s)... eliminate any that make non-sterile banana. some may show 1-2 banana, but if dont get grrlz pregnant, ok... either under environmental stress, or nute stress, or water stress... if they do make bean, eliminate, even if excellent.
if grow bean from that, test, re-test, etc... eliminate if banana gene go to next gen...
preferably, no need ever grow bean, or other cut, ever... after initial selcetion...
if desire make bean, only keep 1 male from inital stock of ~49...
if kept weak-branch do not have special flavor, effect, etc, eliminate it too... some moments, different branches off same mum grow very different & have different fruit... rare, but occurs...
eliminate all others, even mum, if not vigorous as selected branch(s).
now, maybe have 1-2 elite cuts... artificially selected for best traits... tested thru several runs...
no more need for seed, or other cut, ever...
pre-veg
once elite cuts selected, only ~4-5 mums...
selct cut that desire to flower...
maybe, take four 6" cuts. 50/50 coco/perlite.
co2: breathing & fermentation.
maybe place cut in 6" container. ~4oo-6oow, bare bulb, vert. no less than that min, for pre-veg...
24/0 light.
when roots come thru 6" container, maybe 2-3 weeks, cut ~7-8" tall, maybe 6" wdie.
once roots show, place in ~2-4 gal container.
full strength nutes... 1.0-2.0 ec, 700-1400ppm, input ph 5.0-5.5...
fed 1x/day, 1/5 volume of container, or ~>than 1/2 gal day... maybe less... as they dont get fed daily...
gh nutes, protekt, cal-nit, k-nit, etc...
so... maybe 2-3 weeks for roots show thru 6" container, then 2-4 gal... another 2 weeks & roots come thru 2-4 gal container (depends on cut)... they maybe 10-12" then...same width.
so, that about 4 weeks, 24/0 to get double size, from cut...
but, still much longer to go
the config is to let them veg min 8-11 weeks, or the pre-veg, while fruiting tomatoes finish.
veg
after tomatoes finished... the pre-veg get 2K... bare bulb 1ks.
they very close to light, maybe 2-6", no more than 12"... this closest part of plant...
they trasplanted from 2-4 gal, into 5-10 gal containers... depends on cut.. (some pure i plant only get 18-20" tall+wide, even after 8 wk veg... this special cut, not for tree, but for occasion... just for jar...).
so, now, maybe 18-24" cuts, ~4, under 2k...
24/0 veg cycle, now go to 22/2...
temps kept higher during this veg part, ~85 day, 78*f night, 1 week, then to 80/78... this make plant wide, denser internodes, maybe
... >elongation.... or, zero-diff.rh ~30-40%...
whatever amount of water fed, dehumidified in 24-36hrs...
plants not touch ea other, given full 6x6x6 area to expand. they like to fill open space, w/ canopy...
another 3-4 weeks of 20/4 & they get ~2" wide stalk/trunk.. maybe 3-4" around... many leads, many inter-nodes...
when they get ~1 yd+ yard wide, to 4x4x4, they turned back to 16/8, as some of the cut (mostly s) may start @ only 10hr dark...
then, 14/10, then 30 min per day to ~12:30/11:30... keep slightly more light than dark until week 7, when it go to 11:30/12:30... & then down gradual until they done... ~60-77 day...
@ wk 8, all tops take, then remainder of plant finish in 1-2 wks...
so, that ~12 total wks veg, maybe 10 total wks flower...
but, veg occur during flower, & only under 1k's enough to get 3x3x3+... if want bigger plant, can just use bigger container, less plants & veg only under 24/0 under 1ks...
fruit count
dont count total fruit...
just thank garden goddesses for tomatoes to eat, until repeat...
usually work & basket have lots fruit.
however, plant finish ~6x6x6... though, there some that only get 18" around...
can get anywhere from 4-16+ tomatoes per plant. or, 32 fruit per plant... depends on veg time, container vegged in & how long vegged...
can basically get any amount of fruit desired, once note how much ea cut get per this/that veg in this/that container... since no new beans sown & only run same cut over/over/over/over, only limitation is...
low stress environment
this is real limiting factor, as kr&sty pointed out long ago...
the less stress the plant have, the better they perform.
stree may be ph, nute imbalance, heat, lack oxygen, lack circulation, too high.low rh, etc... root-bound, pests, bacteria, light cycles, etc...
that reason for running same cuts over/over... so note exactly what they like/dont like...
once do this, plant can be @ 50 days & still be lush green, w/ sweeling red tomatoes! seems as though they can be picked off vine @ 56... but they really like 65-70
this dead-head reward... after tops taked & second 1/2 of plant swell...
neartly impossible to mng w/ plant from bean, or cut for 1st run... though some have pulled this off...
even if no c02 (or, only fermentaion & breathing), they still get big w/ long enough veg & big enough container...
...& room to grow... more plants dont mean more fruit. best plants, in best environment & stable ph = more fruit...
they really like to not touch other plants, until very end...
even if maintain low ec/ppm of 1.0/700 ppm, they still get large...
it only matter of waiting for them do so... & providing lots of light.
if run 6 plants in 10x10 area, plant in middle get light from 2 directions, but between 2 other plants...
if run 4 plants in 10x10 area, they canopy cover this entire area...
stake them @ wk 4, but dont cut undergrowth... this will develop into mini-large tomatoes @ week 8-10, after take top 1/5 th of plant... as lower section younger, than tops... require 10-14 more days to finish, but
second harvest...they dont like to be crowded, like full stregnth nutes thru-out & nitrogen thru-out... fed ever 1-2 days, w/ 1/5 volume of container...
if in 10 gal container, feed 2 gals every 2 days... if in 5 gal, feed ~1 gal every 2 days...
even if only have 4x4x4 area, maybe just max 2-4 plants... though seems like more plants would do better, if veg 2 plants under that 1k for 4 wks, @ 24/0, they should fill entire area w/ canopy - if they have been pre-vegged... & in 5+ gal container... 4 plants maybe crowd in 4x4x4', @ finish...
this why run several several moments, to note exact stretch, water needs, cal-mag-iron-nitrogen-ph needs, temp needs, etc...
in any event, clean air going 24/7 (means that if light match, it blown out by air flow)... potassium silicate for strong limbs & plant supports++... if can keep >86*f, & nights 60-75, :yes....
if veg 18/6, etc, pre-veg & constant clean environment+.... constant full strength nutes & constant cal, mag & nitrgoen... phosphorus not that much factor...
should be able to get anywhere from 4-16+ tomatoes per plant... depends on types of cut... w/ just 2 plants, under 1k
these may also be helpful:
small plants, <#'s, expertly done:
Size does matter!
small plants, >#'s, expertly done:
VerdantGreen's quarters - 250HPS organic mod.scrog
not many big plants, different styles of tree gardening:
The Krusty Bucket
GH and coir
MY 3 BIG GIRLS. . . Week 3 of Flower
*edit*
what B.O.G. did, in soil, since this soil forum:
My Biggest Yield Ever!!! SB 53 Days Done!!!
all different methods... all work... find the right cut, veg her long enough, give minimum of 1k per 2-4 plants, no less...
& :watch clock:
until done. if noticed, most of the links above use 1-2 cuts, oiver/over/over.... that gardenr may know does this/that if given this/that environment, light, veg time, etc, etc...
hope this helps.
enjoy your garden!
Wow, thanks for the reply *mistress*! 
