ok, it's time to build a soil

[jaykush]

you can add sand to the soil, but only after a good amount of organic matter is in the soil. add sand to clay rich soil and you get concrete basically. once the soil is loosened up some i like to add sand and crushed lavarock. rice hulls would help initially but i dont feel like buying them.

and yea you can grow in it this season, but you better get to work. best to amend and let the soil sit and balance out before planting. i got all my amending done last fall and the soil sits mulched waiting for spring planting.

 

[Dignan]

mad-

When you said this:

*the main thing was the use of pine bark fines instead of peat or coco. Pretty cool stuff.

but I'm going for longevity, and pine bark breaks down.*

... I thought you were saying you WOULD use peat or coco, but not pine bark because it breaks down. Peat and coco break down, too, so I was confused. But I think I misunderstood you.

 

[mad librettist]

yeah sorry, that was not clear. all soilless media break down. mineral soil breaks down to, over a thousand years...

 

[foescan]

If you don't till, the only thing you'll be growing is a variety of cover crops. Or you can till, amending with lots of organic matter, and have real crops planted in a month. I'm all for no-till gardening, but tilling initially will save you at least a year IMO.

not really... you are assuming I am taking a whole lot away, which isn't the case. Most goes right back. And while it will be no-till (minimal dig), I will be top dressing.

Anyway, I am not talking about biomass or nutrient holding, I am talking about pine bark, peat, or (slower) coco breaking down and collapsing, whereas the goal with mineral soil is for microbes to form aggregates as time passes, meaning the structure improves with time.

Did you say you were using 3g pots? I don't want to be pessimistic but how will that work?

 

[mad librettist]

14 gal.

 

[Dignan]

Our native soil is decomposed granite with some sand and clay mixed in. A few years ago I tilled in composted horse manure and kelp meal at about 50/50 (native/manure) and applied compost tea then let it sit for 1-2 months before planting... garden went OFF, right out of the gate. It was 2x as good the following year, but even that first year, it was incredibly fertile.

 

[guest2012y]

I don't have to tell you all how stoked I am on the topsoil I dug up from the back 40......just look at my pix. I wish I could convince everyone to try it but not all topsoils are the same and some would surely have poor soil conditions. Experiment,experiment,experiment!

 

[xmobotx]

Our native soil is decomposed granite with some sand and clay mixed in. A few years ago I tilled in composted horse manure and kelp meal at about 50/50 (native/manure) and applied compost tea then let it sit for 1-2 months before planting... garden went OFF, right out of the gate. It was 2x as good the following year, but even that first year, it was incredibly fertile.

no doubt dignan horse manure is good stuff


hey ML are you talking about doing the cover crop thing in this container?
when you said about not much getting taken away and much being put back i thought that way

 

[xmobotx]

somehow i dont think enough aggregates are going to be made in time. my soil is basically hard pan. Its like cement. Im sure with enough time the soil would change with the application of organic matter but since I would like to grow something this year wouldn't an initial till before going non till be beneficial for the short term while i build the soil long term?

my place started out like this. my 1st garden here, i bought soil (bag garden soil, bag compost, bag EWC,) and started a little plot (about 4'x8') figuring i would expand that plot but writing off the nasty soil (dry shitty looking hard pan - although it did grow knapweed and a little grass)

these years later (from mulching mowing then bagging mowing for compost) i am attempting to get a garden of some size started

check the link in my sig