in need of wisdom (lcs mix)

[santasapimp]

changing it up a bit trying to maximize my quantity and quality

do i have to use liquid karma with LCS mix? can i use mollasses to activate (wet) my dry mix and let it sit for 2-4 weeks? and just skip it in the teas? this stuff is expensive and id rather not buy it

would it be okay to use the following recipe or would compost just overdo it and be to much organic stuff going on with feeding recipe #1 and #3

5part peat
3part perlite
1.5part ewc
.5 part shrimp compost

and is it okay to use shrimp compost as my mulch to protect my soil? mixed with bunny poo?
should i incorporate my bunny poo into the lcs mix, the tea, or the mulch? i dont have alot
do you have any tips for mulching? should i just use a less hot mulch like grass clippings and leaves? id rly like to use bunny poo and shrimp compost tho (also ewc are expensive and my mix is limited to how much ewc i have)

would using compost in both situations be to much? is there to much?

i also wanted to incorporate sum ground alfalfa into feeding recipe #1 (bonebloodkelp) should i replace sum kelp if i add alfalfa or can i ad it ontop . if ontop how much do i add per gallon

is it best to aerate the feeding #3 guano tea? im gunna use kelp meal instead of powdered kelp extract bcuz thats what i have, will kelp meal and ground alfalfa break down in a tea?. im using ground alfalfa to replace high n bat guano.

i dont have myco i can buy some from the store but id rather not, will i get myco fungi from my ewc ect. LK? or would it be very wise to make a unwanted trip bak to the growstore and i think there myco expires soon

i found sum "lava rock" in my garage its for grills. is this the stuff used in organic gardening? would it be a good idea to throw sum in with my perlite when i make my mix and should i break it into smaller pieces or leave it 3 inch chunks

how big of a deal is hole size i usually go a foot wide circle and 2 feet deep and fill with my shit. but i see everyone here using huge ass holes

 

[dune]

I'm just gonna add in my 2 cents in on this one. EWC is the meat of both those mixes don't skimp on them. The alfalfa will cover your blood meal, keep ur kelp, it really depends on what your bunny's have been eating. If its pelleted rabbit food i wouldn't touch it because it could have other additives in it specially made for a rabbits diet but no real properties that you are looking for.
Another tip to avoid your hydro-store go to organic farms or nursery's if they don't carry the products themselves they can tell you who does so you can get them.

if your using alfalfa tea you should use a tbs per gallon of water and let is soak for 24 hours (aerated) then remove 2 gallons of the tea. use this as a good folair spray or for light feeding. refill your tank with lost water, add in kelp,LK, EWC, Molasses. (PSG, Guano as needed) Let areate another 24-48 hours and use.

10:1 folair spray mix.

try to avoid using alfalfa after 3rd week of flower as it can cause stretching in excess.

 

[santasapimp]

respect dune. forget rabbit poop. forget skimping on the ewc i will keep only a small amount for my teas

this is outdoors. ive decided to do a 50 gallon rubbermaid with 2 ladys hanging on 45 degree angle over each end and hopefully i will get huge ladys. i should still use 5/3/2 ratio? or does any1 have a tweaked recipe for outside?

is shrimp compost a good mulch tho? or since im using a rubbermaid should i use sumthing else

the tea recipe calls for

maxicrop powdered kelp extract... will kelp meal be ok? or will i face deficiences not having soluble powdered extract in my teas

 

[dune]

o yeah awesome you working outdoors, i could only dream. As for the kelp liquid or kelp meal its the same. i as one of the mods a while back and they cleared it up for me.
I haven't gotten to find shrimp compost but from what i here keep it cause its gonna be awesome.
As for ratios its something im working on to. but im going more along the 3LBs recipe which is exactly what ur doing. Look on page 32-40 of the Organic fanatic collectives it has info that you will love to get your girls happy and your soil a army to have ur back.

i found that Lsting till you get the new growth to 4 to 7 nodes then start topping or supper cropping. Or if you have the time LST all the stems to form a huge rug of stems and your plants will be massive. Just play around with it, its what makes this fun.-Dune

 

[santasapimp]

thx for passing along the info. i beleive shrimp compost will make a good mulch and buffet table for my microbeasties i will use the mulch to incorporate alfalfa meal and basically stick straight to the recipe.

i havent decided if im gunna supercrop or lst

how do i encorporate a small amount of GH rare earth? tea or like a tsb per gallon in my mix

should i go buy myco or i dont need it?

 

[dune]

I put my next batch of ladies in my mix 2 weeks ago and i can say the mike seems to be working. i use it only at transplants. no idea on the rare earth. GH?

 

[UpInTheCut]

yeah shellfish compost/lobster/crab/shrimp is rich in Chitosan... Which triggers the SAR immune response in Plants.

chitosan is used primarily as a natural seed treatment and plant growth enhancer, and as a ecologically friendly biopesticide substance that boosts the innate ability of plants to defend themselves against fungal infections.

 

[santasapimp]

dune- GH is general hydroponics, google their rare earth product ive heard its good stuff. what does the myco do for transplanting? how do u apply myco

i am trying to choose between rooter myco 20$ 1 lb(ogm product) and mycomaximum granular 40$ 8 oz (granular) can i post an outside link?

upinthecut - ya i read that sumwhere and when i seen shrimp compost and grabbed it right away. my mulch will be shrimp compost and alfalfa meal so hopefully my plants will be SAR immune

my last few questions

should i mix my rare earth into my soil mix, trop dress or use in a tea? i dont have to much so top dressing or tea would be ideal

how many plants in a 50 gallon rubbermaid outdoors. 1 or 2 trained well? or a hole bunch

regarding my lcs mix feed recipe.. should i use feed recipe #3 teas once a week throughout the hole she bang or is it best to use bongaloids recipe #2 let it rain and then start feeding teas halfway threw flowering when soil ferts are most likely used up or should i just use #2 alone and feed mollasses water and avoid teas

 

[dune]

oooo i like that stuff as for GH products i like to go cheap as i can so if i cant get 8lbs for under 30 bucks ill just get it online. I would mix it into the soil its gonna do the best there i belevie. But ive never used nor heard of this till today so i hope one of the others with dirty black hands to speak up.

Look at the back it will tell you if you just buy a liitle with filler for 20 bucks or less then that for double the price. Personally id go cheaper unless the ingredients were worth the cost.

(REPOST- totatly not my work)
JOG Grow Guide by 3LB

The basis of our system are 2'x3' plastic utility containers that the three_little_birds are now infamous for growing in. The containers are just under a foot deep and will hold something in the range of 25 to 30 gallons of soul depending on how full we pack them. Needless to say these containers are heavy so we have each of our containers on an individual furniture mover to make them mobile (and to avoid root stress when the containers are moved).

In our "Jungle of Green" system we use a maximum of 4 plants per container and a minimum of 2 plants in each 2'x3' container:
4 plants per containder gives each plant 1 1/2 square feet a piece and 7 to 8 gallons of soil.
3 plants per container provides each plant 2 square feet of space and 10+ gallons of soil a piece.
In a 2 plant JOG each plan needs to fill out 3 sq ft and gets 15+ gallons of soil for their roots.
(experiments with 1 plant per container were also successful but require strains that really like to "bush out" and some patience too)

In all honesty we've had great success with any of those plant counts - the specific results in terms of look and structure may vary a little depending on how many plants are in a container, but we have found that yields can be the same regardless which you use. The primary difference is plant count vs veg time. Its funny how even in a JOG system it comes downt to that basic choice (much like the choice between SOG and SCROG). One offers little or no veg time and the other offers reduced plant count. We have tried both SOG and SCROG in our gardens and found them inferior to the Jungle of Green.

We normally clone our plants directly into 4 1/2" square planters and grow them up to around 6" or 8" under strong floro lights - currently we use a combination of Agrosun, Sunstick, and daylight floro bulbs in standard 4' shoplight fixtures. Experiments with VHO floro lights have also been very successfull. In addition, some T5 floro arrays are showing extraordinary promise for vegging plants. (Eds note: These bulbs are smaller and set closer together thereby more efficiently utilizing an alternating lamp strategy). But those are expensive investments for beginning gardenders and we've done well with standard floro bulbs.

At 6"-8" with almost all strains we will top (or top clone) our plants to encourage bracning. Allowing a single cola to grow would not allow the canopy to fill in evenly and diminish yields. Topping at this height encourages multiple colas and one secret to creating the jungle of green effect. (Eds note: Bending tops via "supercropping" can also encourage multiple branching without eliminating the apical meristem). Once the plants have recovered from the stress of being topped - once they begin to show the development of those multiple arms we transplant them from their square planters into the 2'x3'. At this point they are around 6" in height and are pretty close to being root bound.

As we said, the JOG will work in a 2'x3' container with 2, 3, or 4 plants. For simplicity sake in this example we'd plant 3 plants in a straight line up the center of the container. We then place the 2'x3' container under at least 110 to 130 watts of VHO floro light; a pair of these containers side by side can be lit by a 400 watt MH light to great effect as well. Depending on the strain and it's veg vigor they will ove inder that bright vegging light for 10-15 days. Plants that been topped will grow more slowly in height since they energy is split between multiple colas. During this time ther roots will be spreading into every corner of the organic soil they have been planted in. As the plants in ther container reach about a foot in height they are ready for the move out to HPS light and a 12/12 light cycle. At this point they are suisually 3 squat little bushes who are just beginning to intermingle their branches and fill in the canopy. Once the plants move to the bloom light cucle they normally explode in size. Even strains known for little or no vegetative stretch will gain some height in a JOG; maybe that stretch is because we usually continue feeding them a grow fert mix for a few days, or maybe its becase of the huge amount of soil their roots have to stretch into.

Once the plants are in bloom it's just a matter of rotating them through the grow as they mature. Once a week the containers are rotated 180 degrees to encourage the plants to grow an even canopy, and once a week they rotate in position. (Eds note: the importance of this point cannot be under stated. Under 600w lights the rotating helps ensure all the plants recieve their share of intense light at the "overlap" points. Under 1000w lights rotating helps ensure no plants gets over exposed to intense light while others are deprived.)

The very smallest plants are on one side of our grow, the mid sized plants on the far side, and the tallest plants are in the middle. Many high tech grow systems are V shaped or stadium shaped - ours is the opposite and we designed ours that way for a reason! Our system is designed to maximize a 3 light system. We feel that multiple light angles are one key to producing good plant vigor, an even canopy, and high yields. We keep our air-cooled PL lights as close as possible to the plant's canopy to maximize the energy our plants recieve. Since the outer plants are shorter, the outer lights are hung lower. This sidelight helps to fill in the lower canopy of the maturing plants in the center of our grow, a detail which helps to significantly increase yields. With JOG some of the lower branches can produce nice "popcorn" buds which helps this system get a little edge on some other gardens. (Eds note: 3LB documented average yields over 2g/watt, with high marks reaching over 4g/watt. If any reader has any posts to this effect please add them to this thread or another topic).

Airflow and control of the atmosphere are critical factors when growing in the "Jungle". For every 10 sq ft of floor space in the jungle we have about 100 cfm of exhaust pulling through a large carbon filter. This means a 600+ cfm exhaust fan for a 60 square foot growing footprint, ensuring a strong and steady supply of fresh air to the jungle. For a 60 sq ft grow we recommend 2 oscillating fans also blow on the garden constantly. Good airflow discourages pests and diseases while encouraging good general plant respiration.

A relative humidity of 60% or less is also a key. When humidity raises too hight your plants can't breath properly and your plants growth and vigor will both suffer. We are creating a solid canpy of plants with the JOG and those plants will want to breath a lot of moisture into the air. In some locales and in some seasons a dehumidifier is a necessity for a successful JOG.

Hopefully that covers the basics of the bird's do things a little differently ... Welcome to the Jungle.

(Eds note: the following represents 3LB's direct responses to reader questioning as contained in the thread. This is heavily excerpted, but hopefully the nature of the questions will be clear by the response provided.)

We originally started blooming in 3 gallon and 5 gallon buckets, and certainly a great garden can be grown using those kinds of containers. We still use these for unsexed plants when selecting keepers on a grow from seed, but for cloned plants (once we know sex) we almost always use 2'x3' plastic utility bins. The fact that they hold 25 to 30 gallons of soil really gives our babes room to spread their toes, so to speak, and that means happier, healthier, and more productive plants.

Container plantings of this sort offer multiple benefits. Plants in smaller pots (3 or 5 gallons for example) are quicker to show nutrient shortages than thsoe grown in large containers. If there's a little pocket of soil who's pH isn't quite right, or where nutes got mixed in a little too strong, a plant in a smaller contaner will almost certainly be effected. However, the roots of plants in bigger containers can somply seek out better soil and keep on growing.

Our 2'x3' container grows have no drainage holes ... never needed em.

They are about 10" deep and hold 20-30 gallons of soil. With 100% organic food no flushing is needed, and with careful watering there's not even the need for any drainage holes. We never water to the point of total saturation because roots like some air.

We generally would expect to water a 2'x3' container every other day for fill sized plants that fully fill in the caopy above the container. For smaller plants it might be as long as 5 days between waterings. A "normal" watering would be about a gallon of water, but it varies depending on the particular strains needs.

As for the volume question ... 1 cubic foot = 7.4805195 gallon [US, liquid], and a cubic foot is simply 1' x 1' x 1'. Our containers are 2'x3' giving a surface area of 6 square feet. So if our tubs are only 6" deep (and ours are certainly deeper than that) we'd have a max volume of at least 3 cubic feet ... that's about 22 gallons right there. If our tubs were 12 inches deep we'd expect a max volume of 44 gallons, so at 10 inches deep container holding 30 gallons isnt really a stretch.

 

[santasapimp]

oh man thats exactly what i needed. i found a bunch of those containers and was thinking of using them. i need to find out there water holding capabilities, i think im gunna have to make some sort of wick system for those buckets bcuz i will be relying on rain.

and since im growing in woods i cant use blood/bone i gotta get a mix using

-high p guano
- alfalfa meal
- kelp meal
-10.10.2 psg

im thinking of buying an early girl variety? or when would kush and afghan finish nugging if i plant in may (long hot days)

i also gotta figure out how to keep the deer and shit from eating my weed

 

[dune]

I'm indoors so Jay could answer you better, hes the outdoor wizard around here. As for the deer, human hair and piss scattered around your garden, or if you wanna have some fun get some urine of a large predator and put that around them and watch the herbivores run for the hills lol.

 

[Lisdexik]

Here is an amendment mix that would be pretty good for keeping critters away, fairly cheap to amend a 50 gal if powders can be purchased from a shop that sell by the LB

2 Parts Alfalfa Meal
1 Part Seabird Guano
2 Parts Rock Phosphate
1 Part Kelp Meal
2 Parts Dolomite Lime
1 Part Glacial Rock Dust

Mix in at 1 cup of nute mix / 2 gallons soil mix, you may just want to lime the soil separately to make sure you get atleast 1.5 TBSP per gallon...

I would make sure you have atleast 30% EWC in your mix, don't skimp, just add in the shrimp compost on top of everything else

Lisdexik

 

[santasapimp]

hmm ive been trying to find fine rock phosphate. i can get the granular stuff rly cheap but cant find it powdered. i dont think i can get glacial rock dust if i can ill try your feeding mix for sure. im thinking of using bongaloids

1//3 n guano
1/2 p guano
1tbs kelp
1tbs greensand

i gotta go a long ways to get myco so might aswell buy the n guano

thx dune, how bout dog hair? i dont got much to shave off lol

 

[dune]

just go to a barber shop they'll be more then happy to give you bags of hair.

 

[santasapimp]

thx dune uve been a huge help. Vonforne, u 2 if ur watching, thx guys.

ive decided to buy an earlier flowering strain (i wont have a thing to worry about with this and will be able to do 5x as many OFF my properteh)

im going to use lcs mix #1 with 2 tbs each psg/hihg p bat/kelp and top dress my shrimp and alfalfa

nugs in september yey!!! then ill have 1-2 of my fav strains for nov
double yey

now i just gotta find the best early riser.. im thinking of using a kush if itll nug in the long days.. omg .. kush is my all time love. any kind or hybrid as long as its got that hashy taste when u smoke