RO Water-Coco-Problem...Any advice?

[slowandeasy]

These are 2 Sour Bubbles in Coco being fed 6/9 GH Micro/Bloom using RO water pH 5.5, but upped to 5.9 when saw problem start. I thought it might be a Cal-Mag def, I am not using Magi-Cal, but have some. Was told it is a waste and should just adjust pH instead. I tried adjusting pH and it got worse.

Now I am going to try Tap water 100ppm and 6/9 on 1 plant to see if things get better or worse. Might try Magi-Cal at 100ppm and 6/9 on 1...but I do not want to make things worse. I will fill out the form tomorrow morning...But temps are 75-80 . 47% humidity and use a 400 watt HPS.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, this is my 1st time in Coco. Thanks!!

 

[slowandeasy]

I cant believe nobody has an opinion

 

[Guest 18340]

IF it's a cal/mag issue from there not being enough, then your tap water should clear it up...

 

[]A[Boss]

did you pre-treat your coco before the grow?

i say to hell with 5.5pH

pH 5.8 add 2ml of cal-mag

my 2 cents

 

[Kcar]

I'm liken the Sensi-Cal from AN..

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

did you pre-treat your coco before the grow?

i say to hell with 5.5pH

pH 5.8 add 2ml of cal-mag

my 2 cents

There is no practical difference between pH 5.5 and 5.8.

 

[C2L]

Hey Slowandeasy! We seem to be having a very similar problem. Perhaps mine is a bit more advanced than yours. See my post: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=166812 and see what I have done. I was thinking a Cal mag issue too, but I’m unsure. I have foliar sprayed with Epsom Salts with no obvious changes over a one week period. But that’s just boosting Mg. Didn’t appear ot have any significant affects. I doubled my Cal Mag + and we’ll see what takes place. Take a look at my pix and see what you think.

 

[Guest 18340]

delete

 

[]A[Boss]

There is no practical difference between pH 5.5 and 5.8.

yes there is. i've witnessed my plants suck at 5.5 but thrive at 5.8

5.5 showed Mg problems with my tap but 5.8 did not.

 

[slowandeasy]

did you pre-treat your coco before the grow?

i say to hell with 5.5pH

pH 5.8 add 2ml of cal-mag

my 2 cents

Yes I pre-treated the Coco with 1/2 strength nutes, like H3ad and Rez do. I was just using RO water and 6/9 5.5. Now I have a jug of 6/9 Tap 5.5 and a jug of RO water with 100 ppm of Magi-Cal 5.5. 5.9 made things worse using RO, and with the added Magi-Cal or Tap 5.5-5.6 should work great, if there is no improvement then I will try 5.8.


evl2me,
I see you say "If" it is a cal-mag issue. Do you think it could be anything else? You use Maxi-Bloom right? Are you in Coco? I have a bag of Maxi-Bloom, used it in DWC for 2 runs....I want to try some Maxi on next batch of clones. Any advice? Thanks!!

 

[Massproducer]

You need to raise your Ph a bit to let it get more access to ca/mg and P, which like ph's closer to 6, for me and yes I grow in coco, 5.8 is the low end of the scale, no matter how much ca/mg you give if it is being restricted because Ph it makes no difference.

And I have no idea how dude can say the is no difference in 5.5 and 5.8??? The difference is HUGE

 

[slowandeasy]

You need to raise your Ph a bit to let it get more access to ca/mg and P, which like ph's closer to 6, for me and yes I grow in coco, 5.8 is the low end of the scale, no matter how much ca/mg you give if it is being restricted because Ph it makes no difference.

And I have no idea how dude can say the is no difference in 5.5 and 5.8??? The difference is HUGE

What kind of nutes and Coco are you using? If you read my first post you will see 5.9 made it worse! According to pH charts, 5.5-5.6 is the best overall pH. I upped my pH to 5.9 for a few days, for the same reasoning as you say...but it got worse. This is with RO water and 6/9. I would think with Tap or Magi-Cal, that you would not have to up the pH. I am new to Coco, but pH 5.5-5.8 in hydro can make a big difference. I wanted to start with the same pH for Tap water mix and the RO mix...to make thinks more simple. If they both do bad, then up the pH. Otherwise see what worked better.

Once I get some more cloes going I can experiement, but these plants are going to be the doners. I need to get them looking better. They are growing, but could look nice and be more healthly.

 

[Massproducer]

I use Canna coco and grow 100% organic, no bottled nutes, no cal/mag. 5.5 - 5.8 in coco is too low. I run from 5.8 - 6.2 ish and it works like a dream. While coco has to be treated like hydro, it doesn't react in the same ways as totally inhert mediums like RW and hydroton. Coco exchanges positive ions every water and will actually hold on to the ions that it thinks it needs. So it cal/mag is outta wack then the coco itself will not release both ca and mg. In too low of a ph ca especially will precipiate out of the medium, meaning that the coco can not absorb it and will keep trying to absorb it everytime you add it to the medium, but if at the wrong ph, it will just flow right through the coco without anything being absorbed. Also once the Ph improves the coco itself is going to probably be low on ca/mg and high in K, so everytime you feed it for atleast a week or so the coco itself will take all of the cal/mag for itself to release later. You effectively would have unbuffered coco.

What brand of coco are you using?

 

[hazy]

There is no practical difference between pH 5.5 and 5.8.

Just the difference between having Mg lockout and having a healthy plant.

You can run at 5.5 but a .1 point downward swing and you have no Mg uptake. Why walk the razor's edge when you can be in a safe range?
No 5.9 didn't make it worse, that was your being out of whack in the first place and then things done in reaction. It would take some time at the proper pH for you to notice the results. damaging things are already in the plant. When you run a low pH all the stuff like iron, manganese, zinc, boron, copper, starts to get taken up rapidly by the plant. So you get the defs caused by low pH, which include calcium and magnesium, but also all the extra available iron precipitates with phosphorous tying it up too. You can't expect it to get better overnight.

If you use coco you should keep you pH at 5.8 - 6.2

If your water's hard use gh hardwater micro. TBH, I can't remember head's advice about calmag and RO water, since I don't use it N/A to me. I have hardwater and use the hw micro from gh.

 

[Darth Fader]

Now is your golden opportunity to test opposing theories/treatments. Don't let it pass you by. And let us know what worked. I had the exact same issue - looked same - in coco ... but my water was completely f'd @372ppm for tap!

Looks like Ca def.

 

[slowandeasy]

Thanks for your opinions guys. I am new to Coco, and was going by what H3ad and Rez both say because I am using the 6/9 formula. Rez says 5.5. H3ad says 5.6-5.9 is his favorite. Alot of people say 5.8-6.2. That is all over the board, who is right? I am using the 6/9 formula with GH. I had them at 5.9 for 3 days, that is alot longer than overnight. A perfectly healthy plant developed spots at 5.9, it had none before the switch. The others got worse.

I plan on experimenting with clones, but I need to veg another week...so getting these plants straight is a must. I have a couple seedlings to experiment on, that way I can figure out what works best. Every plant and set up is different, so what might work for one may not for another. But finding the right pH is what I need to do.

 

[Hazy Lady]

Flush & PH

Flush & PH

This is an odd problem seen in coco grows and miss-diagnosed as cal or Mag deficits, it isnt!. It is a mixture of deficits that always show the same necrosis followed by yellowing, dead leaf, if allowed to continue, I am certain it is caused by a lock-out of sorts from irregular flushing of the medium, coco must be flushed with PH'd water every 3rd watering, 2/3 feeds to one water and you must always water to at least 10% run off to ensure a salt line is not growing some way down the pot. I found a PH of 6.0 to 6.2 gives me the best range of available nutrients and I have the least problems in this range, flush the hell out of yours and start your feeds with regular flushes and your PH around 6 and you will not go far wrong ime.

 

[richyrich]

This is an odd problem seen in coco grows and miss-diagnosed as cal or Mag deficits, it isnt!. It is a mixture of deficits that always show the same necrosis followed by yellowing, dead leaf, if allowed to continue, I am certain it is caused by a lock-out of sorts from irregular flushing of the medium, coco must be flushed with PH'd water every 3rd watering, 2/3 feeds to one water and you must always water to at least 10% run off to ensure a salt line is not growing some way down the pot. I found a PH of 6.0 to 6.2 gives me the best range of available nutrients and I have the least problems in this range, flush the hell out of yours and start your feeds with regular flushes and your PH around 6 and you will not go far wrong ime.

^^^ Spot on. Not one other person besides this said nute lockout from not flushing. Flush away and take a tds/ppm reading of your runoff first. I bet it is way above 1000ppm. I feed at 700ppm in coco with runoff and flush once a week. Aim for a ph of 6.0 and you should be good.

 

[]A[Boss]

then how come i did a 6/9 with no runoff and no flush till the end and nothing happened. Not as efficient and beneficial but it worked and produced great buds nonetheless.

 

[madback]

I just started experimenting with coco, after lurking through the coco fourms for a couple months. Most, if not all of the nutes thrive at ph6.2. I've also found that letting my tap water sit out for a day takes the chlorine, and other impurities out.

I'm not using coco specific nutes, and I don't have any problems. Maybe some stunted growth... but the roots are going bananas.