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Yellowing leaves/Green veins

Snype

Active member
Veteran
This is taken from Stitches thread for you:

"Iron (Fe) Micro Nutrient and an Immobile element

Iron is an important component of the plants enzyme and is also important for the transportation of electrons while photosynthesis is happening...

Iron reacts with many of the components of nutrient solutions, which will cause a nutrient lockup to occur, If you add to much Iron without adding enough Phosphorus, you can contribute to a phosphorus deficiency , so watch out how much iron and phosphorus your nutrients have. The Leaves on the plant can turn a pale yellow along the growing shoots, while the veins remain dark green. When you have pH imbalance, it can make iron insoluble. The tissue between the veins becomes pale or white, kind of mimics the magnesium deficiency, but not yellow, iron has the white where the yellow would be on the magnesium deficiency. The deficiency starts with the lower and middle leaves, while the new leaves become completely lacking in chlorophyll, but with little or no necrotic spots. The chlorotic mottling on new leaves starts first near the bases of the leaflets, so the middle of the leaf appears to have a yellow mark. Iron is difficult for plants to absorb and moves really slowly in the plant.
Harder for outdoor plants to absorb when in hot weather. Parts affected by the Iron Deficiency are: Young leaves and Petioles.

To much Iron can cause a problem that looks like a PH imbalance, Brown spotting on the top leaves, mainly fan leaves. Can affect the whole plant. Iron Toxicity is rare for Ph below 5.5.

Problems with Iron being locked out by PH troubles
Over watering, pests nematodes, not enough drainage, like not enough perlite. High ph, Soils with low iron, High Phosphorus, Excess Zinc, manganese or copper.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Iron gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-3.5
Iron is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 4.0- 6.0 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to an iron deficiency.

Solution to fixing a Iron deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have potassium in them will fix a Iron deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) Foliar feed with chemical fertilizer containing Fe or rusty water can work well. Other supplements that have Iron in them are: Iron chelates, Ferric oxide, Ferrous oxide, Ferrous sulfate, all of these are fast absorption. Greensand, Cottonseed Meal is slow absorption, Garden Manure, which is medium absorption. Manure is most common organic iron source to use.

Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients."
 
D

dunkybones

Canna's A&B has everything you need on a basic level, don't start adding things. Your plants are fried. I don't think you need to add, I think you need to subtract.

You have meters for pH and EC, why is your nutrient solution 'luke warm'? Who is Luke Warm, Luke Skywalker's boring step brother?

Put the nutes below 70 degrees, back the nutes down 25%, promote new root growth with rhizo/zhyme type products if they're at your disposal, and wait two weeks for them to turn around.

After an initial resetting flush with cool nutes, let the medium dry down at least 50% before topping up the coco to 75% saturation. We want to promote new root growth, the plant needs to search a little.

Plants are a reflection of their roots.

Sorry, but looking at the pics, your plants got fried, it's going to be a hard turn around.
 

Snype

Active member
Veteran
Canna's A&B has everything you need on a basic level, don't start adding things. Your plants are fried. I don't think you need to add, I think you need to subtract.

You have meters for pH and EC, why is your nutrient solution 'luke warm'? Who is Luke Warm, Luke Skywalker's boring step brother?

Put the nutes below 70 degrees, back the nutes down 25%, promote new root growth with rhizo/zhyme type products if they're at your disposal, and wait two weeks for them to turn around.

After an initial resetting flush with cool nutes, let the medium dry down at least 50% before topping up the coco to 75% saturation. We want to promote new root growth, the plant needs to search a little.

Plants are a reflection of their roots.

Sorry, but looking at the pics, your plants got fried, it's going to be a hard turn around.
I don't agree with this statement. If the plants got fried they would show burned leaves making it's way from the tips down through the leaves.
 

bergerbuddy

Canna Coco grower
Veteran
This is probably something quite straight forward but...

Leaves are yellowing leaving green veins.

These cuttings have been vegging for a little over three weeks in 1 litre pots of Canna Coco. They began with an ec of 0.6 which has slowly increased to 1.0 currently.
I feed per week is replaced with plain phed water.
Feed is Canna Coco a&b.
2.5 ml Cannazyme per litre.
I can't tell the precise ph but the mix shows the usual pissy yellow with my checking kit thingy, same as I have used for three years or more so it should be okay.
First pic is the worst example which has developed over the past 7-8 days.
The last pic is one which has just begun to change a day or two ago.

Advice would be appreciated:tiphat:

YOu probably got this down.... BUT... since Canna is sorta my little deal.. and I love the shit... let me throw in some advice..FWIW..

First... DON'T ADD CAL MAG.. NO SIR NO HOW NO WAY.....

You need to feed EVERY TIME YOU WATER... not just once a week.... I like your ec levels.... nice n low... but EVERYTIME you need to have SOME fert in the mix...

This is how I do it... using a 30 gal bucket I mix everyday to feed... I'll give em 6 oz of A & B 8 oz of Zyme and 2 oz of Rizo I'll do this three or four waterings in a row....
Then I give it one watering with 4oz of A&B the same on everything else..... Then four or five waterings full boar then cut it by a third...

Now I always play around with my PH... usually I feed em a 6.0 but every few days... often on my light feeding day... I'll PH it to 5.6... then the next day 6.1 then the next day 5.8 then back to 6.

It may sound a bit complicated by its easy when u mix your batch every day...

But I promise you you start feeding similar to the schedule I showed above.. and those plants willl GREEN UP QUICKLY.... then... if the plants look really green... or are not branching closely and are gettin sparse.... back off your fert mix a bit....

I suggest somewhere between 5ml & 8ml per gallon for A & B... depending on the stage of growth your in... but I NEVER feed higher than 8ml per gallon... on strains like O.G. I never feed em higher than 7ml then only a couple of feedings during the third to fourth week of flowering


Hope this helps.. Canna is awsome shit.. once you get the feel of it.. it very easy to manipulate your plants with your fert mix... just by moving it a ml or even a half ml... at a time..

Peace

P.S. I assume you are using canna coco... its IMPORTANT that you are if you follow my advice.... its for canna nuts and canna coco.. other coco's make a diff.. :)(

P.S.S. DUNKYBONES IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! don't add other products to a canna regime and SNYPES IS CORRECT TOO.. THOSE PLANTS AINT FRIED!@! your pix do look like an Iron deff... your plants DID NOT GET FRIED.. unless it was gettin a light to close to a sick plant... your plant WILL PULL OUT IN THE NEW GROWTH QUICKLY and you need to lower your PH in the case of an Iron def and make sure you water is NO COLDER than 60 degrees..... However I will point out that if you feed the way I suggested above... you'll hit the right PH for that IRON to get taken up.. thats why I bounce it around between 5.6 and 6.2 and YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ADDING OTHER PRODUCTS TO A PURE CANNA GROW.. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED..
 
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hazy

Active member
Veteran
I'd agree with an iron def, if the yellowing is on the new growth. Hard to tell from the crappy pics. In the first one at least, I thought the very top growth looked green, so assumed I was seeing a low ph Mag def. For you to have an iron def, your ph would have to have been over 7. At 7.3 50% of your iron is gone and at 8.0 all of it is gone. Anyway, it'd mean your pH was the opposite of what would cause a cal-mag def. And if they had too much nutes, thereby frying them, that usually goes hand in hand with low pH in the medium.
So is the top growth green, or yellow with green veins?
 
L

lysol

Just for reference...

IRON
iron-def.jpg

See how the tips of the top leafs stay green and it yellows from the back of the leaf

MAG
severe_mag_def3.jpg


Also, pay attention to this specific part snype quoted.

iron has the white where the yellow would be on the magnesium deficiency
Yours look yellow to me, but that is probably the lighting in your photos. What do the plants look like to YOU?
 
S

sundays child

Dunky bones,

"You have meters for pH and EC, why is your nutrient solution 'luke warm'? Who is Luke Warm, Luke Skywalker's boring step brother?"

I only have an ec meter. For ph I use a litmus liquid type tester, I mention it above.

There's an old English joke:-

A bloke goes to a swimming pool in Yorkshire. Before getting in he asks a Yorkshireman standing on the side how warm the water is. The Yorkshire man says, "Luke warm".
The bloke jumps in to find the water freezing cold. He scrambles back to the side and remonstrates with the Yorkie who replied, "Eee, I'm sorry Lad but it luke warm to me".
 
D

dunkybones

Taking a second look at your photos, I see others here are correct, the plants aren't fried but they are definitely hungry.

I'd go with bergerbuddy's advice and get your feeding schedule right. I feed my Haze at 10 ml/gallon, any higher they will burn. I think 10 ml/gallon equates to about 1.0 ec. I still stand by keeping the nute temps down. Room temperature water will feel cool to the touch, but not uncomfortably cold like the swimming pool in Yorkshire.

Good luck and let us know what you chose to do and what worked.
 
S

sundays child

So...It's been a long day at work, there's a lot of information coming at me...

I don't think it's burn, either from over feeding or heat, I've learned to recognise both and how to remedy them.

The concensus seems to be an iron deficiency probably caused by too high a ph. If that's so, either this variety ('Critical' from Royal Queen) needs a much lower ph than anything else I've grown or I've got the ph all wrong.
For now, I've flushed them with luke warm, phed water, three litres to each litre pot. Tomorrow I will buy a ph meter and some new nutrients. I have tried to remember when I bought this batch and I really can't. They may even be two years old.

48 hours from now, hopefully I'll be feeding them with an accurate ph with a reduced feed. I'd be grateful for a suggested ph and ec/ppm.

Thankyou Snype, Hazy and Lysol. You don't know me from Adam but you have my back and I really appreciate it. You've all given me a lot to digest and I will...but not just now!
Lysol, from the pics I would say mine look more like the Iron ones. Nice one!

Katfish, you might be right.

Bergerbuddy. I'm with you all the way with Canna Coco 100%. Indoors I have only ever grown in pots, Canna Coco, A&B, Rhyzotonic and Cannazyme, hand watered. It's a piece of piss and has worked everytime for me, so far. The only non Canna thing I use is AN Big Bud. I got some free when I began and just carried on using it.
I can't work out your feed ratios because I do it all in litres and I'm too tierd to work it out. I'll try tomorrow.
 
S

sundays child

Dunky, we cross posted. I fell asleep at the computer...it's been a long day.

Thankyou for your good wishes and I will do my best to post on this until it's sorted. I'm learning a lot.
 

Snype

Active member
Veteran
That's the problem with those drops. I wish you had a pH meter instead so you can get it to a perfect 5.8.
 
S

sundays child

So, I bought a ph meter, some calibrating fluid and some new, Canna Coco specific nutrients. I'll feed the girls later today with a 0.8 ec and a 5.8 ph.
I don't expect there will be much to report for a few days when I hope to see a positive change. That's assuming things don't get any worse!

I tried taking some better pictures but they were crappier than the first lot. I suppose that's what you get with a two bob camera that came free with a packet of cornflakes...
 
S

sundays child

Okay. So I mixed a bucket of feed, phed as normal and measured with my new, freshly calibrated ph meter. 6.9! I checked with my liquid tester and it still reads 'optimum' on the colour chart. I've thrown it in the bin.

It took a little fiddling to get the mix right but now I get 5.8 when adding 3.5ml of down to eleven litres of water/nutrient. Before I was working with 2.5 ml to ten litres.
I've mixed some nurient up at 0.9 ec and left it to stand for a few hours.

I imagine it will take some days before I see a hoped for improvement and I will report back then. I might even get hold of a better camera and put some pics up!

Thanks again to everyone who has pitched in.
 

Snype

Active member
Veteran
Yeah it all makes sense. The most common problems I see with plants that don't have to do with mites is due to pH and over nutiing, so always check there first. Good luck with this rest of your grow!
 
S

sundays child

So, the girls are starting to green up and have put in a burst of growth, thickening up nicely.

I'm amazed how much the ph can shift. I left a bucket full of nutrient at 5.8 for 24 hours and it was 6.9 when I tested it again!

Over the next 5-7 days I hope to trim off the low growth, pot them up in about 7.5 litres of coco and give them the 12/12.

It looks like I'm back on track again thanks to the help and advice of you all on here. Still no pictures, I'm afraid.
 
D

dunkybones

If you're using Canna nutes, I think it's strange that your pH is rising so high so quickly, especially if you're using tap water. When I mix my nutes with tap, the ph is usually 5.8 at 1.0 ec. If I use straight ro, then the pH is lower, around 5.4, but it doesn't rocket to 6.9 overnight. I rarely see any shift at all unless I'm adding rhizotonic, but even then the pH rise isn't as bad as what you're experiencing.

Definitely keep an eye on your pH, and make sure your pen is calibrated, as your pH is being temperamental. It should stabilise after a couple days, if it doesn't, you have something throwing it off. Glad to hear things are otherwise going your way.
 
S

sundays child

It's troubling me too, Dunky Bones, so what I've done is mix up the nutrient in eight litres of water, leave it stand for a couple of hours, add warm water to make up to eleven litres of 'luke warm' mixture, ph to 5.8 then give it to the girls.

I have some time off this week so I'm going to play around with various buckets of plain water and of nutrient, leaving them for 12/24/48 hours and then check the ph to see what gives.

For now, things are looking much, much better.
 
D

dunkybones

I'm still at a loss as to this 'Luke Warm' person... Is your water that cold? Do you live in the netherlands and collect your water from dripping icicles?

Maybe that's why your pH rises so high, you're a little too 'luke warm.' Anything above room temp is too warm for plants, and room temp would feel cool to the touch. And by room temp I mean 68-70 Fahrenheit. What is that in celcius, like 20? Or do you guys use kelvin up in the Netherlands?
 
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