The use of our planet is no longer sustainable

[GMT]

lets bring this back to the topic at hand. when we live in a world where rather than providing everything for ourselves, we each contribute to society our particular skill set, and live off our share of the total skill sets of the time; to say that having as many children as we want is our right, is wrong. we make allowances for those whose demands out strip their contribution due to circumstances beyond their control, as that is compassionate, however how many children we bring into the world, ( short of cases of multiple births, triplets etc) is not beyond our control. That is a choice made. It places demands that others then need to meet. And those demands involve the usage of natural resources. Either we believe that the resources of the world are endless, and nothing that we do to our planet will harm its ability to provide an endless suply of resources, or we have to accept that limits must be placed on the demands made. If we accept the latter we need to calculate what the maximum demand that can be met long term is. What the chart shows at the start of the thread is what has been calculated to be the maximum that can be provided, and the demand that is being made. And it shows that we are demanding more than can be provided in the long term. Now if the figures are wrong, thats one thing, but we do need to consider the concept. And we need to consider what we do if/when/now that we have, exceeded the ability of the world we live in/on to provide what is being demanded in order to reach sustainability.

 

[RetroGrow]

Tell that to to folks who's coral reefs are dying by the thousands of acres....

Tell it to the Inuit, who have had to invent names for birds they have never seen...like robins.

Tell it to the sharks, who are being threatened worldwide.

Tell it to the large pelagic fish like marlin, sworfish and tuna, whose numbers are down by 90%.

Tell it to the Canadian cod stocks.

Tell it to the Northern tundra, which is being ripped to shit for minerals, diamonds and the like.

Tell it to all the dead lakes in Alberta, chock full of toxic sludge from the tar sands...all to feed to greed and gluttony of the Western world.

Tell it to the sturgeon, who will be extinct in the wild within a decade.

Tell it to all the people who used to draw their livelihood from the Aral Sea...which has basically disappeared, leaving the remnants hyper-salinated and polluted to all hell.

Tell it to the many, many thousands of species made extinct in the Amazon and other rainforests every year, to feed the worlds hunger for beef and other meat.

Tell it to the world's frogs and amphibians, who are being wiped out by a multitude of factors, most of the human caused.

Tell it to the world bee population, which is in a very critical state (and if all the bees go....we all die in about 4-5 years.)

Tell it to the hundreds of rivers laid barren and thousands of people poisoned by toxic pigshit lagoons (just look up Smithfield Pork and how lovely their production methods are)....pigshit lagoons that can be smelled from a plane 3000 feet up in the air and poison the air and the groundwater for miles and miles around them.

Tell it to the vast tracts of forest in BC and the PNW that are being devastated by mountain pine beetles and other invasive pests who are able to move north due to rising temperatures.

Tell it to the hundreds of thousands of people who used to live in the Chernobyl dead zone.

Tell it to all the people worldwide suffering from depleted uranium exposure and ingestion.....depleted uranium that will toxify and ruin the ground where it lies for hundreds of thousands of years or more.

Tell it to all the fish and ocean life that has to deal with the massive accumulations of plastic bottles and bags (some the size of Texas) that float in the oceans.


Tell it to all the people around the world who have had their heritage seed stock patented and taken away by Monsanto, and then sold back to them in modified, non-seed producing varieties, to cement their dependence on Monsanto and further engorge Monsanto's profits.









I could go on and on and on..........but what's the point...you'll just laugh it off and call me paranoid...tell me to get out my tinfoil hat and put down the Kool-Aid.....cuz you have bought the bullshit 100% if you can say that everything is OK, and we are not adversely affecting the planets health.

Just keep in mind that the Corpo-Nazi scumbags who both control the media and are behind all this malignant destruction and exploitation have ZERO interest in showing you this on Discovery or the like....they would rather keep you in the dark and worrying about OJ, Brittney, Monica Lewinsky's BJ power, the football score or how many blonde chicks Tiger Woods fucked last week.

Because then you won't notice just how badly you (and your descendants) are getting fucked in the ass raw by them, so they can keep milking us and the planet dry for their own selfish pleasure.

^
Yup!
What he said!

 

[southpaw]

are you one of those crazy tree huggers?

i do as much as i can to preserve this planet but in the grand scheme of things. what i do doesn't matter. what is going to happen is going to happen.....and i will be long dead before it does.

Yep, this is where I'm at also. I don't drive, which puts me way ahead of most people, but the sum of anything I do to "conserve" isn't even a drop in the bucket, and I'm far from perfect. All that "one person can make a difference" junk isn't going to change the direction that consumerism, higher standards of living, and greater population pressure will take this planet. In the meantime, all we have is a pointless debate between scientists with incomplete evidence (because the crisis is either not apparent or too subtle for the masses to care about), and people who would rather stuff their heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem at all.

I just hope for future generations that scientific advances keep pace with scarcer resources and environmental degradation, because if they don't, I don't think these "doomsday" scenarios that "crackpots" conceive now will look all that far fetched to our descendants.

 

[facelift]

What does the WWF, World Wrestling Federation know about over population?

I can support the basic too many people theory, but I don't care. There's not much I can do about it. There's not much I'm willing to do about it. I can vote and send letters. That is it.

 

[MarquisBlack]

to say that having as many children as we want is our right, is wrong.

I think that in America at least, this is our right. However, I think that when you bring children into this world, you should be held responsible for their well-being. I understand the purpose of one and two child policies, but at the same time it seems over-reaching. The Government has no right to limit the number of children you have. The Government does have the right, in my opinion, to educate the public on the matter, and let people decide for themselves.

I personally don't plan on having more than two children, myself. But I don't think it's my right to tell you that you can't have more.

 

[genkisan]

One thing everyone on the planet can do is drastically reduce or eliminate animal flesh from their diets.....the meat industry is THE prime polluter on this planet, and livestock and the production thereof accounts for 60% OR MORE of petroleum use worldwide.

Here's something to think about:


If everyone went vegetarian just for one day, the U.S. would save:

● 100 billion gallons of water, enough to supply all the homes in New England for almost 4 months
● 1.5 billion pounds of crops otherwise fed to livestock, enough to feed the state of New Mexico for more than a year
● 70 million gallons of gas--enough to fuel all the cars of Canada and Mexico combined with plenty to spare
● 3 million acres of land, an area more than twice the size of Delaware
● 33 tons of antibiotics


If everyone went vegetarian just for one day, the U.S. would prevent:

● Greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to 1.2 million tons of CO2, as much as produced by all of France
● 3 million tons of soil erosion and $70 million in resulting economic damages
● 4.5 million tons of animal excrement
● Almost 7 tons of ammonia emissions, a major air pollutant.


If every American skipped one meal of chicken per week and substituted vegetarian foods instead, the carbon dioxide savings would be the same as taking more than half a million cars off of U.S. roads. See how easy it is to make an impact?

 

[GMT]

wow yeah, lets just out law the usa and save the planet lol.

 

[GMT]

marquis "I personally don't plan on having more than two children, myself. But I don't think it's my right to tell you that you can't have more."
I dont know how it is in the usa, but here people get more money from the govt for each new kid they bring into the world, would you back a plan to reverse that and have a child tax, and tax breaks for those who dont burden the economy with more mouths asking to be fed but without any contribution at all, ie kids.

 

[MarquisBlack]

marquis "I personally don't plan on having more than two children, myself. But I don't think it's my right to tell you that you can't have more."
I dont know how it is in the usa, but here people get more money from the govt for each new kid they bring into the world, would you back a plan to reverse that and have a child tax, and tax breaks for those who dont burden the economy with more mouths asking to be fed but without any contribution at all, ie kids.

I would probably lend my support to such a thing, yes. While I don't believe it's the Gov't's right to force one and two child policies, I also don't believe that the Gov't should be subsidizing people having several children.

 

[RetroGrow]

marquis "I personally don't plan on having more than two children, myself. But I don't think it's my right to tell you that you can't have more."
I dont know how it is in the usa, but here people get more money from the govt for each new kid they bring into the world, would you back a plan to reverse that and have a child tax, and tax breaks for those who dont burden the economy with more mouths asking to be fed but without any contribution at all, ie kids.

No one is talking about using force or eugenics, as one particularly pinheaded poster put it. What we are talking about here is monetary rewards to those in the "affected" areas. They get paid for stopping at 2 children. A stipend for sterilization, as it were. Countries who cooperated would be given a boost in foreign aid, and those who didn't would risk losing aid. Those starving people in Africa who keep on having babies, would get paid so that they could provide for their 2 children in a positive fashion. a "win-win" for both sides.

 

[Anti]

People are made of food. Increased cultivation leads to more people. Which leads to increased cultivation. Which leads to more people. See the cycle?

Time for a new gospel.

'Go forth and multiply' is getting us nowhere fast.

 

[pease]

The naysayers are just part of the conspiracy! Don't listen to the PINKS

Whatever you want to say about this, it is the TRUTH!

and 'don't worry, doesn't effect me' attitude is the exact type of apathy that the world's elite have used for hundreds, if not thousands, of years to keep YOU, the proles, controlled - medicated - and easily manipulated.

PROTECT YOUR PLANET

'nature will balance'


NATURE IS BALANCE, but we are seriously FUCKING IT UP with our unnatural ways, compounds,,,, etc

do something

I have plans

do you?

 

[funkervogt]

People are made of food. Increased cultivation leads to more people. Which leads to increased cultivation. Which leads to more people. See the cycle?

Time for a new gospel.

And that gospel is Soylent Green. It's made of people!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

The global population doubles every 30-40 years, roughly.

No worries. As population densities increase.... the detrimental long term effects of vaccinations and disease will kill off quite a few.

Don't forget war.


DOOM AND GLOOM!

Please spend your energy in the CREATION of things.... don't fritter it away uselessly on worry.

 

[bentom187]

you cant simutainiously prepare for war but expect peace. do what YOU can and dont worry too much about the rest, just set the example.in other words show them how to make a better world as apposed to fighting them to beleive what you do.you'll be better if ther're more people that think like you freeley, and the rest will fade into history as a screw up.i myself recycle what i can for money,i give my old clothes to the homless espeacially for the winter and feed them with food i dont usually eat,and some i do, if im not going to use it why not? i dont expect anything,but i take pride in the fact someone is living better cause i do care.

 

[GET MO]

Im more concerned with the survival of the human race than the survival of the earth. we need to start looking for new planets to fuck up.

 

[9Lives]

I think that in America at least, this is our right. However, I think that when you bring children into this world, you should be held responsible for their well-being. I understand the purpose of one and two child policies, but at the same time it seems over-reaching. The Government has no right to limit the number of children you have. The Government does have the right, in my opinion, to educate the public on the matter, and let people decide for themselves.

I personally don't plan on having more than two children, myself. But I don't think it's my right to tell you that you can't have more.

I agree that it would be a fucked up law...

But eventually it has to happen. It this world of credit and with this system of agriculture that you could also think of as taking credit from cheap oil. We will overshoot at some point..

And then it's not a matter of legalities anymore..it's a matter of how many of you i can shoot before you shoot me..

 

[MarquisBlack]

I agree that it would be a fucked up law...

But eventually it has to happen. It this world of credit and with this system of agriculture that you could also think of as taking credit from cheap oil. We will overshoot at some point..

And then it's not a matter of legalities anymore..it's a matter of how many of you can i shoot before you shoot me..

I think the best way to approach this issue is not yet through legislation, but through focused social pressure on people who have excessive amounts of children.

 

[mriko]

We'll take you out before you take us out,there's more of me than you.


Your kind didn't learn it's lesson in WW1 & WW2 when you got your fucking asses kicked. Round 3 will hopefully put an end to socialist/leftist/Marxist/commies like you once and for all. The world has had enough of your totalitarian kind,believe that.

Your nuts Kush Dreams, I'm not commie, neither posted anything commie here in this thread. Get a cure man !

Irie !

 

[~fvk~]

Your nuts Kush Dreams, I'm not commie, neither posted anything commie here in this thread. Get a cure man !

Irie !

Wow, I just saw that post. Thanks for pointing that out Mriko.

Ignorance is bliss. Americans better start educating themselves, considering I'm getting pretty tired of attempting to educate people who refuse to liberate themselves from the chains of their masters, at the expense of myself.

I don't know about your communities, but mine is FREE.