Mossy's BW: Use the feminine male(s)???

[ChynaRyder]

Well, I have the opportunity now to explore the impact of using a feminine male...2 of the 4 'males' selected have just started producing pistilate flowers...after producing only staminate flowers...Now I had this with just a previous grow, and I axed the tranny...but I have been reading and thinking more on the use of feminine males...do they indeed lead to a more feminine leaning genotype in subsequent generations? I am inclined to find out, but would like some discussion on this. I can put up some pics when I get home, but the 2 most vigorous 'males' that had caught my eye as being the best are showing pistils, 4 fems are showing only pistilate flowers to date.

 

[Otto Flour]

I had that happen to the one male I got out of 3 auto BBxAK that made it. Wanted to pollinate some lower buds so I kept him in another room with his own light. He dropped pollen and I collected and used a paintbrush to apply it to 2 females. Didn't even get 1 seed. Figured he was sterile on account of the sexual confusion, but i suppose it could have been human error.

 

[ChynaRyder]

Didn't even get 1 seed. Figured he was sterile on account of the sexual confusion, but i suppose it could have been human error.

It would be very unlikely to not get ONE seed...even with significant error.

My biggest question is, could this lead to more Females producing staminate flowers...really the only potential pitfall...I think, not likely and the arguments I have heard and are tantalized by are that the lean in the genotype becomes one toward a feminine direction...certainly a positive, if indeed they produce viable pollen at all

 

[mossy]

Damn..the curse of DC strikes again...

F3 seems the trigger point...
same has just happened to me with the P Chunk.
I thought I may have triggered it with my bad conditions..
But it looks as if I may have hit a hermie trigger @f3.

I trashed mine..shelved the cross and saved the full females for bud
only...
until I could investigate further.

and the arguments I have heard and are tantalized by are that the lean in the genotype becomes one toward a feminine direction

Are you talking about the cross as described in the Marijuana Botany book..?
If so..it has tantalised my thoughts too.

I wasn't in the position to try for it..
couldn't risk a cross-contamination
but..
it really intrigues me.

What are you gonna do..?

I was warned off it..and didn't get the opportunity

but I THINK if the info IS what is in the Maj Botany book..
then in your position..I wouldn't be able to resist trying.

 

[ChynaRyder]

Damn..the curse of DC strikes again...





Are you talking about the cross as described in the Marijuana Botany book..?
If so..it has tantalised my thoughts too.

Indeed my friend, this is exactly of which I speak...

I wasn't in the position to try for it..
couldn't risk a cross-contamination
but..

I can see why you would have avoided it...but I have nothing to loose...except for maybe a little yield if I get a staminate fem..

it really intrigues me.

What are you gonna do..?

I was warned off it..and didn't get the opportunity

but I THINK if the info IS what is in the Maj Botany book..
then in your position..I wouldn't be able to resist trying.

I cannot resist using them, and will. I will pollinate 2 fems with the 2 guy/gals, and use the other 2 apparent true males on the remaining fems. Will allow me to hopefully preserve the genetic, and allow me to explore the results of the fem. male.

I could not be happier to tell the truth...love a bit of intrigue in the grow room. This shall be fun, thank you, my friend for providing more entertainment than you intended.

 

[mossy]

It is the curse of the DC in a cross..I have had two singletons in different crosses up to now

But then wammo..I got sideswipped @ f3 on the PC.

#1...I had them in the bat-mix..which has given me a horrific male majority in all the crosses I tried in it (90-95%)

Plus..

#2...I was trying to guage what was the lowest temp I could germ in..
so I sucessfully germed them Outdoor in minus 2..

#3...I then bumped them up from Outdoor natural light and freezing conditions..onto 24 hour grow light...

so..there was a Possibility it was a stress hermie...

I shelved them..'til I could have a fiddle/grow in good conditions.

BW hasn't thrown a hermie at all until you have hit it..
I could SPIT because she is a Stunner..
but heigh-ho..
you cannot bear a grudge with mother nature if she sometime throws you a curved ball.

I cannot resist using them

I have been wanting to make that cross for 3 years since I first spotted the science of it.
My toes are hurting with envy.

When I got the PC out..I couldn't risk cross contamination..
But I was gonna aks my m8 if I could make it at his place if I got it out again.

This shall be fun, thank you, my friend for providing more entertainment than you intended.

IF you get it out..You will be providing more entertainment than I hoped for..
karma goes round and comes around..

I have my fingers crossed you get it.

 

[ChynaRyder]

Mossy - have you seen any fems in these DC crosses showing any male flowers? I gather from your writing that it has only been the males... which would suggest that this may not be so 'risky' to play with.

I would dearly love to know exactly what is going on in the genome of these little...uh guys...uh gals...er, whatever they may be

On an aside, something from your thread last year has been eating at me....on all of the DC crosses you did, you found full af progeny in the F1...am I remembering your writing correctly? If so, that kinda messes with my punnet squares a bit...

for the fun m8

Would love to hear from anyone that has used these types of males before and what your results were..

 

[mossy]

I can see why you would have avoided it...but I have nothing to loose...except for maybe a little yield if I get a staminate fem..

Yup..my thoughts exactly..as long as you have it fully contained.

I KNOW the worries about hermies..but I think why would they have it in the Maj Bot if it was too dangerous.
There is no kinda warning about it at all..
and MB is THE canna bible..

I would dearly love to know exactly what is going on in the genome of these little...uh guys...uh gals...er, whatever they may be

Me Too..if mother nature presents you with a puzzle..
it seems only polite to try to solve it..
it is how she teaches us.

on all of the DC crosses you did, you found full af progeny in the F1...am I remembering your writing correctly?

Yup..and yup it does your punnets in.
I remember blynx coming with the very same question 2/3 years ago.
It destroyed his homework to.
I cannot remember his conclusions..but now might be the time to ask him.

I can only run on results..and mixing a 100% AF to a long season girl
have given me AF in Majority @ F1.
The FIRST cross I ran right through on the DC/ALF gave me AF 90%
dominance..
but overall I would peg them @ around 75%

Pity Mr Celcius is not around...he could give the hard and fast on it.

 

[UnNatuReal]

Hi, I have made Skunk #1 (Sam Skunkman) X K2 (Nirvana) cross what I have also spread a little with male what formed some pistils later.

That cross is very succesful, but very light sensitive to hermy.

 

[ChynaRyder]

That cross is very succesful, but very light sensitive to hermy.

I would assume you re meaning Females in full flower reacting to light leaks with staminate flowers...certainly not an indictment of the feminine male in my opinion...were you finding higher percentages of Female offspring in the progeny of this pollination with the fem. male?

 

[ChynaRyder]

I can only run on results..and mixing a 100% AF to a long season girl
have given me AF in Majority @ F1.
The FIRST cross I ran right through on the DC/ALF gave me AF 90%
dominance..
but overall I would peg them @ around 75%

Pity Mr Celcius is not around...he could give the hard and fast on it.

now was this seen in only the DC crosses, or all of the long season crosses you have made?...I have an idea what may be about if it is only the DC, but if is all of the crosses....hmmmm....your source of the af gene has always been jems, right? Sorry to launch in another direction....i have been contemplating this for months now since I read it in your thread.

Some pics of the um, things in question


i lied earlier, it is not only the top bud, but is now moving down the stem....and it appears to be 100% reversal in the one, with no staminate flowers appearing amongst the calyxes, and only partial reversal on the other with new staminate flowers being produced among the calyxes...I will get my hand lens out tonight and look more closely.

If you can get your 'males' to give you pollen to preserve the genetic, and then turn around and give you bud too....can that be all bad? especially if you are blessed with a larger % fem to begin with.... I smoked the little bud that was produced on the aAK47xNYCD male that I had that went fem...and it was quite potent for only being about a week old...

 

[UnNatuReal]

I would assume you re meaning Females in full flower reacting to light leaks with stamen flowers...certainly not an indictment of the feminine male in my opinion...were you finding higher percentages of Female offspring in the progeny of this pollination with the fem. male?

No, I was not meaning exactly that, but also that

I also meant factors like how dark the dark really is and so on. I have got so much feedback about plants turning to hermy by little light errors, that I think cross is really more sensitive to them as usual.

But as autoflower plants flowers in 24h lights I think that is not most important thing on that case. There is of course other things what cause stress too.. By my opinnion using that kind of feminine male could cause plants to be hard to grow for beginners. Of course I wish best for your project (you asked for previous results)!

Lately I have been impact of other kind of feminine males, what produce stamens at very begining and only pistils later and I don't really know what to think about those.

About female/male ratio I can't say anything, I can't remember about those. I have readed that should increase amount of females, but these are so much about luck and growing conditions.

 

[mossy]

Bloody hell..I feel the need to explain that when I am ill..
lack of sleep/pain/pain-killers absolutely screw my brain..

Now I'll tell you what I screwed up.
I had the Punk Chunk out Jan/Feb for a low temp germ test.
I was below 10 hours natural light...Doh...!!!!!!!!!!

Last time I did that MMat said to me,
"Mossy you Idiot..ALL canna hermies out @under 10 hours of natural light"
I can hear it clearly in my ear now...Damn..

Now you know why I'm not on the threads in my pain time...
I'm a bloody liability...

ChynaRyder..in all the JEM that I have played with..and tested out..
I have only heard of 3...and I think they were ALL pistilate males.
pipeline got one..Ch@ppers got one..and I got one..
BUT..I waited until last season before I even got to see one.

ALL my High AF dominant off-spring have been off the DC/AF crosses.
But..that is the only one I have done with AF 100% to long season.
(Last season I was playing with 100% AF to 100% AF...so I was ALL AF)

If you can get your 'males' to give you pollen to preserve the genetic, and then turn around and give you bud too

You know..I cannot really answer with anything meaningful.
There is SO little info on hermies..and people just seem to scream about them..
BUT..I need to KNOW.

I was Told that you cannot wind it out of a grow.and that bloody intrigues me.

Study on 1970's genetic pool say that some of the leading genetics were quite prone to hermie.
Those genes are welded into the history of most of the plants we grow today..Most should be prone to hermie if conditions are right.

But for me it is the WHY...
nature put it there..nature wastes nothing..so why is it there..?

It has to have some USE....


UnNatuReal...

 

[arcticsun]

Im a little stoned and slow, excuse me for asking .. but..

I can only run on results..and mixing a 100% AF to a long season girl
have given me AF in Majority @ F1.
The FIRST cross I ran right through on the DC/ALF gave me AF 90%
dominance..
but overall I would peg them @ around 75%

Are you saying that a fully AF crossed to a long season non AF produces up to 90% fully AF plants in the first generation offspring?? Or did I completely misunderstand this and you are still talking about hermies?? tnx

 

[mossy]

Are you saying that a fully AF crossed to a long season non AF produces up to 90% fully AF plants in the first generation offspring??

Well..they did for me...

This is a typical pot for me on the ALF/DC.
1 non AF..the big one in the middle of the pot..and 5 or 6 AF's.

It was the only one that I have tested the FULL set of f1's on and the ratio held throughout.

Bit further on and you can see the Big non-AF and the AF'S around her.
(The non-af Big white..is the Mom for my Black AF that you see in my avatar)

 

[arcticsun]

I have never heard of this before tbh, somehow either there is autos in the lineage of the deep chunk or ive misunderstood mendels law or the nature of the auto trait.

Quite interesting, could it be related to indicas especially?

 

[*mr.mike*]

"Feminine male" is a nice way of saying "hermie."

I only say this because it is my understanding from literature that only "female" plants make female flowers... even if they made or will make male flowers on the same plant.

Since I hate aspirin, I would say trash everything having to do with the "feminine male" (the term makes me puke. I think of the seventies/eighties notion of the "sensitive male"). Stop your headaches COLD instead of willfully propagating them.

 

[mossy]

Quite interesting, could it be related to indicas especially?

Hmmmm..not sure..BUT..
the JEM has been rolled to be ultra indy..
(it works best for me for meds..)
the DC traits I was after were ultra indy..
so there is always the possibility
I just haven't seen That possibility mentioned...anywhere..

I'll have a sniff..see who else has mixed full AF to long season and see what % they got.

Have a great weekend m8's....

 

[arcticsun]

thanks mossy, ill be very interested in hearing the results. Im running 3 widely different af to non af crosses in the f1 generation at the moment, I cant say ive noticed any fully af plants in this generation. I am running them on 12/12 however because I wasnt expecting the autos to appear until the next generation because as I understood the auto trait was supposed to be non dominant.

What you are saying is a bit outside the norm in tems of what ive expected them to behave like. Im new to working on autos, so all info is highly appreciated.

thanks and blessings, -karmawave

 

[mossy]

Im running 3 widely different af to non af crosses in the f1 generation at the moment,

I know m8..I've been in for a quick scan of the thread..but my head is still not up to speed yet so I will read properly when it catches up.

I have had the benefit of your intense homework on the climate/light levels in your homeland and I have a little bet on with myself that if anyone can pull a "Tailor Made to conditions"..
Da Bomb little AF off...
it is gonna be you
So I wanna watch....

I am running them on 12/12 however because I wasnt expecting the autos to appear until the next generation

It doesn't matter..you would be able to SEE the difference in growth patterns between an AF and Non in the same grow.
They are just Different and I know that you would pick up on That.

What you are saying is a bit outside the norm in tems of what ive expected them to behave like

.
MY behaviour has always been a bit sub-normal m8..
it's in me genes...
and DJ Short says canna takes after it's grower....so what can you expect....

(I've just smoke tested the crown headed dc cross...weeeeeeee......)