Mac vs. PC - the great debate

[Mala Tempora]

I would be very surprised if the TOA of a Macintosh is less than that of a Windows computer. I know many companies that use Macintosh computers, but they only have perhaps 3 at the most, and use them for audio editing and graphic design. The cheapest Macintosh available here in the UK is over £500, and that's without a monitor. If a company needs 200 computers, all for basic office purposes (spreadsheets, database work, word processing, etc.) then spending £600 per computer would be extremely inefficient when a £300 Windows machine that will almost certainly last as long as the Macintosh and would also require very little maintenance and would be equally as capable at the task. And from my experience, Macintosh computers cost a heck of a lot more to fix when they go wrong. And they do, especially when networked.

 

[TxMatt]

Linux ftw!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I would be very surprised if the TOA of a Macintosh is less than that of a Windows computer. I know many companies that use Macintosh computers, but they only have perhaps 3 at the most, and use them for audio editing and graphic design. The cheapest Macintosh available here in the UK is over £500, and that's without a monitor. If a company needs 200 computers, all for basic office purposes (spreadsheets, database work, word processing, etc.) then spending £600 per computer would be extremely inefficient when a £300 Windows machine that will almost certainly last as long as the Macintosh and would also require very little maintenance and would be equally as capable at the task. And from my experience, Macintosh computers cost a heck of a lot more to fix when they go wrong. And they do, especially when networked.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-notably-less-to-support-than-windows-pcs.ars


I'll believe what IT people who run mixed environments think about how it actually works, over how you imagine it must work.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Linux ftw!

Ubuntu 10.04 beta 1 is looking good, less brown
By Ryan Paul | Last updated about 20 hours ago

Canonical has announced the availability of the first Ubuntu 10.04 beta release. The new version of Ubuntu, codenamed Lucid Lynx, is scheduled to arrive in April. It will be a long-term support (LTS) release, which means that updates will be available for three years on the desktop and five years on servers.

Although the Ubuntu developers have largely focused on boosting stability for this release, they have also added a number of noteworthy new features and applications. One of the most visible changes is the introduction of a new theme—a change that is part of a broader rebranding initiative that aims to update Ubuntu's visual identity.

Canonical's Ayatana team has continued its effort to overhaul the panel. Ubuntu 10.04 introduces a new application indicator system that will streamline the panel notification area. The panel has also gained a new menu—referred to as the Me Menu—for managing instant messaging presence and posting short messages to social networking Web sites. The social networking functionality is powered by Gwibber, my open source microblogging application, which was added to Ubuntu for version 10.04. Another application that's new in Lucid is Pitivi, a simple video editing tool. In a controversial move, the Ubuntu developers have decided to remove the GIMP, the popular image editing program.

The new theme has benefited from further refinement since its initial inclusion. Some of the more garish elements, like the strong hash marks on the scrollbars that we saw in the original version, have been smoothed out and made more subtle. Several bugs have also been addressed, such as the problems we previously encountered with OpenOffice.org menu highlighting. The Ubuntu Software Center has also gained an improved look that matches the new Ubuntu branding.

The beta is not quite ready for use in production environments, but it's already fairly robust and ready for widespread testing. You can download it from the Ubuntu Web site. If you would like to test it in a virtualized environment without having to change your current Ubuntu installation, you might want to try the TestDrive tool. For more details about 10.04 beta 1, check out the official release notes.

 

[TxMatt]

By far Ubuntu has been the best os ive ever used. its super fast and great for multi tasking plus its based on debian/linux so you have huge repositories of free programmes to pick from, over 17,000+
Here is a video demonstrating some of the sick effects Ubuntu has! its just as easy to use as winblows or mac. Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkMTNHxABv4&feature

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

NOT according to the MAJORITY of IT professionals...
I provided a link proving what I said... I'm not making shit up off of the top of my head and numbers do not lie...

I was talking about well educated IT professionals...

The statistical support for my point: http://www.enterprisedesktopalliance.com/resource_center.html

The only numbers I saw were for sales and growth.
Sales, growth, and the opinion of IT professionals really don't have anything to do with which one is better.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The only numbers I saw were for sales and growth.
Sales, growth, and the opinion of IT professionals really don't have anything to do with which one is better.

You did not look at the link in the post of mine you quoted?

The sales increases and figures are a separate issue from the IT people's opinions and costs experiences. It may not have to do with which one is "better", but lower TOC and growing market share sure do knock holes in PC proponent's two biggest arguments.

Isn't that the whole thing you claim makes PC a better choice? Price and Market share?

Sales, growth, and the opinion of IT professionals really don't have anything to do with which one is better

Sales, growth, the opinion of IT professionals, and Lower TOC... So on what level is PC better than Mac?? lol

 

[TxMatt]

This is what my Ubuntu desktop looks like when i use "Skydome"

 

[harpocrates]

Macs are cheaper to use in the long run and there is not one single thing you can do with a PC that you cannot do with a Mac.
^^FACT^^

'nuff said

Big sigh... we've been through this before... not all PC machines are equal.......................................................................... Fact.

Some PC machines are cheaper than Macs to use in the long run, some are not and vice versa. PC > Mac > PC > Mac < PC < Mac < PC < Mac.

Your argument is an ego driven one. I've been using all sorts of computers since I was 8 years old. This argument is plain silly.

Junk parts + junk workers = junk computers
Good parts + junk workers = junk computers
Good parts = good workers = good computers be they PC, Mac, Linux blah blah fucking blah.

I can do lots of web searches that go both ways on this dumb argument... yours is gospel though... your the man!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Big sigh... we've been through this before... not all PC machines are equal.......................................................................... Fact.

Some PC machines are cheaper than Macs to use in the long run, some are not and vice versa. PC > Mac > PC > Mac < PC < Mac < PC < Mac.

Your argument is an ego driven one. I've been using all sorts of computers since I was 8 years old. This argument is plain silly.

Junk parts + junk workers = junk computers
Good parts + junk workers = junk computers
Good parts = good workers = good computers be they PC, Mac, Linux blah blah fucking blah.



I can do lots of web searches that go both ways on this dumb argument... yours is gospel though... your the man!

LOL at PC proponents circular arguments and straw grasping... just lol...

I started out on a Vic-20 when I was 11... I used an Apple IIe... I used PC's running DOS... I ran windows machines up until the year Apple switched to intel, and bought one with the back up plan of installing XP if i did not like OSX. While I have been using Apple I have build my son several windows machines, but finally bought him an apple last year.

Now let me fix your statement...

Junk parts + junk OS = junk computers
Good parts + junk OS = junk computers
Good parts = good OS = good computers be they Mac, or Linux blah blah fucking blah.

Apple does not use junk parts.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Macs are cheaper to use in the long run and there is not one single thing you can do with a PC that you cannot do with a Mac.
^^FACT^^

How is that a fact? I know for a fact I can play a shit load of games on my PC that you can't play on your Mac. Does that make PC better? To some people, but that's not the point. Point is, just because you make a statment, and follow it up by the word FACT, doesn't make it true. Also, they may be cheaper in the long run for users that don't know how to use a computer, and companies that have IT staff, but I haven't spent a nickel on my computer since I built it about 14 months ago, and as stated several times, if I had gone with an equivalent Mac, I would've spent at least 30% more.


Here is Maddox's view on Mac vs PC.

 

[harpocrates]

LOL at PC proponents circular arguments and straw grasping... just lol...

Or, lol @ the snotty Mac guy with the texas sized chip upon his shoulder making blanket statements that one computer is better than the other...

Again, I'm not a PC proponent... just somebody who thinks epeen is bullshit.

Is what I say not true? I'll custom build you a machine that is just as good as anything you can buy, and most likely better. No straw argument there big guy...

 

[harpocrates]

How is that a fact? Here is Maddox's view on Mac vs PC.

It's not, this dude has a galactic ego with everything he ever talks about. That is a fact.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Now let me fix your statement...

Junk parts + junk OS = junk computers
Good parts + junk OS = junk computers
Good parts = good OS = good computers be they Mac, or Linux blah blah fucking blah.

Alright... so I asked for clarification earlier but I think everyone just looked it over.

What the fuck are we debating here?

Mac OS vs Windows?
Pre built Mac vs Pre built PC?
Mac TCO vs PC TCO?



Sales figures, growth, and IT's opinions have absolutely fucking nothing to do with how and why I use my computer. It just doesn't matter to me. I never argued that PC was better because it had better market share. For me, TCO is irrelevant, because they're including lifetime support, which I do for myself, and I see no differently than I see watering my plants.

 

[grapeman]

How is that a fact? I know for a fact I can play a shit load of games on my PC that you can't play on your Mac. Does that make PC better? To some people, but that's not the point. Point is, just because you make a statment, and follow it up by the word FACT, doesn't make it true. Also, they may be cheaper in the long run for users that don't know how to use a computer, and companies that have IT staff, but I haven't spent a nickel on my computer since I built it about 14 months ago, and as stated several times, if I had gone with an equivalent Mac, I would've spent at least 30% more.


Here is Maddox's view on Mac vs PC.

This bullshit was addressed about 200 posts ago. You can't play any shity games on your pc that cannot be played on a mac. If they don't make a mac version of the game, you simply boot into bootcamp (native windoz) or switch on the fly using parallels or VMware.

You're showing your ignorance now by repeating baby arguments that have already been debunked by fact.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

This bullshit was addressed about 200 posts ago. You can't play any shity games on your pc that cannot be played on a mac. If they don't make a mac version of the game, you simply boot into bootcamp (native windoz) or switch on the fly using parallels or VMware.

You're showing your ignorance now by repeating baby arguments that have already been debunked by fact.

Ignoring the fact that you completely overlooked the point of that post, which I couldn't have made any clearer. (Hint: There was a sentence where I explicitly said what the point of that post was.)

If you're using bootcamp... are you still using a Mac?

This is what I've asked repeatedly, but the Mac users don't seem to want to answer. Hard to have a real debate when the subject you're debating about is extremely vague.

grapeman... why do you get so worked up in this thread? You seem to be taking this much more personally than anyone else here.

 

[harpocrates]

Apple does not use junk parts.

No shit sherlocke, I never said they did. Apple is way more top of the line than 95% of the PC competition... duh.

Point is the other 5% use high quality parts that work together just as well as Apple... It only takes one silly twat to fuck up any computer, period.

Top of the line PC = Mac, the choice is opinion/preference.

Got that in your noggin yet chippy?

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

harp [and others], why so defensive, it's just a computer

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

This is what my Ubuntu desktop looks like when i use "Skydome"

That kind of idea^^ is why I like macs, in addition to the widgets
You can organize your windows nicely.
Not to mention navigating through folders (columns view is awesome)

So far it seems like I need FAT32 format for my external drives to keep them PC-compatible if I want to use both mac and PC. Right now having issues with copying folders that came from the PC, it says I don't have permission, and I can't change the permission stat on the mac. So maybe it's like you have to go back to the PC and change the permissions, I've never done that or worried about that on a PC. Weird.

 

[Mala Tempora]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-notably-less-to-support-than-windows-pcs.ars


I'll believe what IT people who run mixed environments think about how it actually works, over how you imagine it must work.

What's an I.T person? If it's someone who works in the I.T industry, has a degree in the field, and who has used, maintained, upgraded, and networked both Windows and Macintosh computers, then I'm an I.T person. And I was speaking from personal experience, not my imagination. And I'm extremely sceptical of that article, mainly because it's written by a prolific Apple fanboy that appears to have a significant bias in favour of Apple, and secondly, because it goes again everything me and various colleagues of mine have observed and experienced.

I'll say it again, before someone accuses me of being some evangelical Windows user. Apple make good computers. I like using Apple Macintosh computers. But they are not up market machines, and are not superior. They cost more to achieve the same performance. They do break, just like Windows machines. But ultimately, it's down to the person using them, and their preference.