Tiger spotted in the Rockies!

[still2big]

Well then kick every dispensary owner in the balls. Because the average dispensary price on those strains is $60 per 1/8th which is $1920/QP and $7680/lb. A few have them for $50 which is $1600/QP and $6400. Plus tax. Dispensaries are making as much profit on each QP as the growers and usually more. Why should medical growers sell to the dispensaries for $800 a QP if they are going to just sell it to patients at or above street price?

I see what you are saying and yeah the ones selling stuff for that much still have tons of expenses that I don't. I work maybe 10hrs a week too! Rest of the time I'm out in Eldorado Canyon leaving nugs on trailhead signs! You could have scored a half oz of sour d following me around Mesa trail last week.,.haha

 

[Greenmopho]

I see what you are saying and yeah the ones selling stuff for that much still have tons of expenses that I don't. I work maybe 10hrs a week too! Rest of the time I'm out in Eldorado Canyon leaving nugs on trailhead signs! You could have scored a half oz of sour d following me around Mesa trail last week.,.haha

LOL, I usually hike Boulder Canyon or Lefthand, but now that you said that, I will traverse down to Eldorado Canyon and look for nugs!

 

[cobcoop]

$800-875 is a good qp price to the clubs. There are tons of shit growers here. We got picked up by a club first week and they will open all the legal doors for you if that happens. The owner of this one turns away 5+ people a day with meds for sale.

What happened to $5000/lb in my face colorado?

You should check out red rocks. Lot's of trails, and if you go on a weekday you can burn one down on the stage.

 

[still2big]

What happened to $5000/lb in my face colorado?

You should check out red rocks. Lot's of trails, and if you go on a weekday you can burn one down on the stage.

lol, that "selling lbs $5500 a pop" in my sig was for that rockymountainfarmer guy that was on here saying how great he treats his patients and how evil the clubs are.

Thanks for the tip about red rocks. The wife and I are hiking crazy lately. I'll hide a nug of my Southern Charm out there for ya when we go. I'll pm ya and tell ya where it's at.

 

[cobcoop]

lol, that "selling lbs $5500 a pop" in my sig was for that rockymountainfarmer guy that was on here saying how great he treats his patients and how evil the clubs are.

Thanks for the tip about red rocks. The wife and I are hiking crazy lately. I'll hide a nug of my Southern Charm out there for ya when we go. I'll pm ya and tell ya where it's at.

Sweet, were heading up there with the dogs soon. Morrison is a nice place to chill afterwards too. Like I said if you catch it on the right day you can have the amphitheater/stage etc to yourself.

 

[-StashBastard-]

Very Cool!


Its great to have you in Co!

 

[NiteTiger]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

When I get out there, I'll PM you guys, get ya to show me around.

I know not a single soul personally out there

 

[scarred4life]

Great thread! Good job getting all this useful info out there, NiteTiger.
Without being too much of a smart ass, I do want to point out a few flaws in the plan you lay out at the beginning. Maybe someone who actually lives in CO can shed some light on my thoughts (I'm just a potential mover myself), but some of your plans might, if my research is right, get you into a bad situation.
You say that you're going to find a commercial property and live there while you start up your business, which is all good with me but maybe not with the state when it comes to getting your CO residency and drs rec. You may be able to apply for residency as soon as you own a properly licenced Colorado LLC (which your operation doesn't sound like it could be), but you also have to have a residentially zoned place of inhabitance to list on your application for state residency. Without a proper application for residency, can you establish residence in CO and obtain a dr's rec for mmj? I’m doubtful.
So, if I'm getting a clear picture of your financial situation, you could wind up squatting in a commercially zoned rental with some non-mmj certified plants and with no money to secure the residential address necessary to get the legalization ball rolling.
...this brings me to my next point, which again, I welcome any corrections of by peeps who are actually out in CO. We all know about the new rules that will take effect when HB1284 passes (something that seems inevitable to me), so any op that you set up, NiteTiger, will probably not be legal as of 7/1/11. I know that sounds like a long time and you may be able to get “set up” by a dispensary, but I find it hard to believe that ANYONE who has the capital to invest in a successful, licensed, legally kosher storefront and optional grow facility that meet the new standards set out in HB 1284 is going to want to share profits with ANYONE. Yeah, you may be able to get a job as a minimum-wage hack if you're lucky, but, if each dispensary is only allowed one grow facility, I'm pretty sure the person who owns the business is going to want to reap all the profits from that one facility.
“sure dude, I’ll pay you 4gs an elbow for bud that you grew in my 100K plus grow facility.” Yeah right
If I were you, NiteTiger, my first move would be to set up a smaller residential grow and risk a zoning violation in order to get my paperwork proper. It’s not like the clubs are gonna help you be legal under the current situation unless you have product in hand anyhow.

 

[NiteTiger]

Glad you dropped by scarred, gave me some good info!

To address some of your concerns:

Residency - I've never, ever heard of a state that makes you apply to live there. In fact, most states want you to establish residency as quickly as possible so they can get tax money out of you

As far as the DMV is concerned, they just want an address to put on the license. According to Denver Motor Vehicles, residency is established upon the opening of a business, or obtaining employment, or living there for more than 90 days.

The only reference I can find regarding 'Applying for residency' is in regard to in-state vs out-of-state tuition for students. I haven't been able to find any other information regarding applying for residency. Could you direct me to where you got the info on 'applying' for residency? I definitely don't want an issue.

Also, I'm confused by your mention of zoning.

Zoning is generally not a definition of what can happen in a particular location, but a definition of what cannot happen in a particular location; ie in a residential zone, you cannot have a commercial or industrial business. However, nothing is stopping you from living in a commercial zone if you want to. You just can't complain about the noise going on 24/7

This is why you see apartments and homes in commercial or industrial zones, but you don't see a sheet metal factory in a residential zone. Many, many business owners live in their place of business.

Again, I'd be grateful for your source so I can avoid hassles.

As far as squatting with non-legal plants, not a chance in hell I absolutely will not be growing illegally in a med state. It would defeat the purpose Plants won't hit dirt until I have my papers in order.

Regarding the creation of an LLC, I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't qualify?

A Limited Liability Corporation is not restricted to any particular business type. An LLC is simply a way of separating business assets from personal assets. A 'shield' for business owners so to speak, to prevent personal assets (home, car) from being held liable by a business creditor. In other words, if your Sole Proprietorship fails, creditors can go after your home and investments. If that business is an LLC, only the business property is up for grabs.

If you can't tell, I've owned not only an LLC before, but also an S Corp and a Sole Proprietorship

I was actually planning on having an LLC, but after reading HB1284 (thanks for bringing that to my attention, btw ), I may go with a Non-Profit Corporation, since that is what HB1284 requires.

Speaking of HB1284, I doubt it will pass as it is written, simply for the fact that it is very poorly defined. If it does pass as written, expect an immediate legal challenge on the basis of 'lack of clear definition and application'. Specifically, it never defines exactly what constitutes a 'Medical Marijuana Center', and that's pretty damn crucial to the enforcement of the law

For instance, if I'm not open to the public, am I a "Center"? The only thing you can glean from the bill remotely defining a center is that a primary caregiver can only have 5 patients. This could be construed to mean that if you have more than 5 patients, you are a Center and must meet the requirements. But again, it's vague, because it can also be construed to mean that an MMC can only have 5 patients, which would effectively eliminate all dispensaries.

If that is the case, it will undoubtedly result in a legal challenge, as it places undue constraints on a legal business. In other words, having 5 patients is not sustainable for a business operation, so essentially it quashes an otherwise legal industry.

Other than that 'minor' detail, it really isn't that extreme. Well, except for the advertising and signage restrictions It basically just says 'Hey, we need some sort of regulation on these businesses, and we don't have one that applies.' If you look at the overall tone of the bill, lawmakers basically don't want Amsterdam-style coffee shops with giant pot leaves on the sign across from the local school.

The problem with risking a zoning violation by growing in a residence is because, God forbid, something should happen that the landlord finds out, I'm fucked. He could legally get an emergency order of eviction, which could have me out in 72 hours. Now I've got plants 30 days in flower, and no where to grow them. And I won't get my security deposit back

Hope I eased some concerns, and thanks for lookin' out for me! Hadn't found HB1284 yet, so I'm glad I got to read that over a few times.

Over all, though, 1284 on it's own is not enough to deter me, I already see the technicalities Being legal let's you work with a whole new set of rules

I figure I'll play the game by their rules until they change them, then I'll adapt and overcome... or find a new game

 

[NiteTiger]

All the supposition about residency, and I should have just read a little bit farther down the application

PATIENT’S AND CAREGIVER’S PROOF OF IDENTITY AND PROOF OF RESIDENCY IN COLORADO*

At least 1 of the following*
Colorado Driver’s License
Colorado ID
Temporary Colorado Driver’s License
Temporary Colorado ID


Or at least 2 of the following

Minimum of 1 from the group of ID’s below -
Out of State Driver’s License
Out of State ID
Passport, Military ID, Tribal ID

And a Minimum of 1 from the group below -
Work Identification/paycheck stub/W-2
Utility bill, medical/insurance bill or cable bill
The above items must show a Colorado residence

* All Documents must be currently valid!

At least one of these documents must show the applicant’s date of birth.

And all the CO DMV wants to see before they issue you a license is the license you're replacing Well, at least my state's ID meets their requirements

 

[scarred4life]

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/1186476451689
here’s the link where I read that you need to “supply a Colorado residence address” when you go to the DMV to get your licence/id: and I do think you have to fill out some paperwork while there. hence my use of the word “apply.” (the quote is under “if I’m moving to co from another state, will I be required to take a driver’s license test.”) I just assumed that residing in a commercial or industrial property is illegal. I don’t know much about Colorado laws, but I know that here in CA you’ll be thrown in jail and/or evicted if you’re caught sleeping in an office or warehouse…and I know that doing so is an insurance liability for any landlord or property manager.
The reason I said you may not qualify for an LLC is because I read a post in another forum from someone trying to obtain a license in Denver who discusses five separate inspections by government agencies, and based on this knowledge I assumed that the health dept, fire dept, etc wouldn’t allow for you to live with your grow in a warehouse. If my assumption had been correct , you might have been in some hot water when the people processing your license noticed the place of residence on your id was the same as your proposed grow spot. I can’t find a link to the post I’m talking about, but I copied-and-pasted it while gathering information on the topic so here it is:
“Thanks for your thoughts on this. I am now seeing how much a pain it is. I have already been to the link you provided, but thanks any way for it.

I stopped in at the Denver Department of Excise & Licenses and was told that when I apply for my business license they will help me to get the proper business license. But was also told that after I get my business license that I will also need to contact the following for more licenses & permits:

Health Dept.
Fire department.
Permit dept.
Zoning Department
Public Works Department”
Fortunately, though, you seem to have much more knowledge about business licensing and are probably already familiar with the inspection process or know of places where that process is not required.
If this is not the version you read, you may want to check out the latest version of HB1284, which the house judiciary committee will vote on this Monday. I think it allows for-profit businesses
http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/hb1284.action2.html
Based on the definitions of the medical marijuana center license and the optional premises cultivation license on pg 27, are you saying that the way to navigate HB 1284 if you just want to grow and not retail is to apply for the mm center license in the facility where you want to grow and then, after getting the first license, apply for the optional grow license using the same site as the mm center without actually opening to the public? Explain further…Maybe that would work, depending on the municipality where you plan to set up. I can’t find the link, but Fort Collins for instance is in the process of enacting zoning requirements for dispensaries and grow ops that would basically restrict grow-ops to land owned by Anheuser Busch, New Belgium Brewing, and Odell’s, leaving little more than a few buildingless fields on the outskirts of town for all 35+ dispensaries to set up grows. No outdoors allowed!

 

[NiteTiger]

We posted at the same time

I used the same link for my information on what I needed to obtain a CO DL/ID, I just used the question at the top "What are Colorado's identification requirements to obtain either a Colorado Driver's License or ID card? " According to their chart, my current state's license meets their requirements. I'll call Monday just to make sure

There are no people that live attached to their place of business in CA? Weird. How would they know if a place was being lived in or just some guy working his ass off and crashing at the office? CA is a nanny state

I know around here there are loads of businesses that have people living on site, and even have apartments built into the business in case employees need to stay over.

Even so, given the choice between the two, I'd rather get kicked out of the warehouse than have the plants kicked out of a house I like camping

And yeah, those inspections are pretty much common for any commercial business. Freaking Fire is the worst though. Got tagged once for having an extinguisher that had passed it's certification date by 48 hours Out of 78 extinguishers, he managed to find the one... Tip - When you tell your employee "Fire Inspection coming up next week, go make sure all the extinguishers are up to date" make sure you throw in "and bring me a list of expiration dates" Better yet, do it yourself

I'll check your link to make sure it is the same, I went through a few different links just to familiarize myself, so it could have been an old doc. I hit the CO General Assembly website to make damn sure, and it looks like the nonprofit thing is still there, page 21 lines 9-12.

9 12-43.3-305. Medical marijuana center requirements. (1) A
10 MEDICAL MARIJUANA CENTER SHALL BE A COLORADO NONPROFIT
11 CORPORATION, BUT NEED NOT BE DESIGNATED AS A NONPROFIT
12 CORPORATION BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Bah, gotta run, I'll come back to address the other questions you asked, we've got to make sure we've got this right

 

[scarred4life]

People do live in apartments and outbuildings on commercial premises in CA. It's just that, if a certain space is insured as let's say a retail or manufacturing premises, it don't think it would be cool to try and live in that actual space, let's say a storefront or a corner in a manufacturing warehouse.

 

[warrenedson]

You are a couple drafts behind on 1284. Wait a couple weeks more final language should be in place. I thought the newer draft would be released friday and would expect it tomorrow. No more forced non-profit was a big change in the last draft.

 

[NiteTiger]

Ah, I got ya Scarred, you're talking insurance wise. Yeah, you would need to make sure you're carrying the appropriate insurance to cover yourself.

warren - Damn man, really? What the hell, the damn GA doesn't even have the proper draft on their site?! Fucking government anywhere, all the same - pointless wastes of space! Is the link that Scarred has the latest one?

Edit: Looks like the link scarred has is more recent, it looks like the recommendations from the Judiciary Committee, and the GA site just shows the original version. Guess the recommendations just haven't filtered down to the Web boys yet

 

[NiteTiger]

Okay, read the Judiciary recommendations.

Still no definition of "Medical Marijuana Center" there, and that just blows my mind. They can't really expect that to stand, can they? You can't have a law that applies to certain entities without defining exactly what constitutes those entities.

They define everything else, except the specific target of the law "GOOD CAUSE" "LICENSE" "LICENSED PREMISES" "LOCAL LICENSING AUTHORITY" "LOCATION" "MEDICAL MARIJUANA" "MEDICAL MARIJUANA-INFUSED PRODUCT" "OPTIONAL PREMISES" "PERSON" ad nauseum are all defined, and yet the specific target is not?

How in the hell can they expect that to stand up to a legal challenge?! All that is going to happen is that the first guy popped by this law is going to challenge it on the basis of 'I didn't know if it applied to me because it didn't say what constituted a medical marijuana center'.

How can you know if you're in compliance if the law doesn't even state who has to be in compliance?! Just ridiculous

I've looked all over, and have yet to find a legal definition of a 'Medical Marijuana Center'. Maybe some Coloradan(?) can point me in the right direction.

Although, I found this quite interesting:

19 (V) THE STATE HEALTH AGENCY MAY MAKE AN EXCEPTION, BASED
20 ON A REQUEST FROM A PATIENT, TO PARAGRAPH (a) OF THIS SUBSECTION
21 (5) LIMITING PRIMARY CAREGIVERS TO FIVE PATIENTS.

Sounds like if patients are requesting your service, you may be able to get past the 5 patient rule. Depending, of course, on the arbitrary rules they make up that define the "may" in that section. Should be "shall", imho.

Though it would be funny to see the poor guy in the office getting flattened by the mailbags full of requests from every dispensary patient in the state on July 1 2011

When some watered down form of this goes through, and it not only will, but should, expect 'Medication Administration' businesses to pop up right next to the dispensaries Can't smoke here, take it next door

But, all in all, I agree with the overall goal of the law, and don't mind meeting reasonable requirements. A lot of the stuff they want, I have no problems with. Security standards, yep. Restricted access areas, yep. Patients aren't allowed behind a pharmacy counter, shouldn't be any different for our 'pharmacies'. And yeah, that should be marked clearly. Standards of cleanliness, I like that one too. Employees required to have ID badges, don't mind that one. Applying food safety codes and warning labels to the production of MJ foods, I'm on board there too. Don't need to be near schools or day cares, sounds about right.

My main beef is it is heavy handed in almost every other area. Actually, my MAIN beef is the fact that it reads like it was written by a first year law student, and not one that did particularly well. I don't mind jumping through hoops, that the nature of business. But for Christ's sake, at least let me SEE the damn hoops!

 

[warrenedson]

If you applied and are granted a 1) dispensary license 2) growers license 3) food/hash license 4) lab license 5) or get an employee license THAT would be your defense. You would not be a caregiver. It would be more like booze. Some one walks in with a state Med mj card, you can sell them weed. An owner of another licensed dispensary comes in, you can sell them up to 25% of what you have in the dispensary.


Caregiver would still be in place but limited to 5 or less people. If you are a caregiver, you don't have to do all the stuff the other 4 defenses have to do, but you can only caregive for 5 people or less. If you live in an area where there are no dispensaries, you can petition to be this form of caregiver but help more than 5 people.

 

[NiteTiger]

Ok, now I'm confused. Can you quote where you're getting that from? I didn't catch that in the bill at all, but I'm tired, been up all night researching

A primary caregiver is designated by the patient, who can designate the as-yet-undefined Medical Marijuana center as that primary caregiver. A primary caregiver can only have 6 plants without the special permission I quoted above, unless the doc has recommended more. Further, a primary caregiver is limited to five patients.

So, from what I understood is if MMJ Center = Primary Caregiver, and Primary Caregiver = 5 patients @ 6 plants each, then MMJ Center = 5 patients @ 6 plants each? I didn't see anything that said an MMJ center could have more than any other primary caregiver?

But like I said, I'm tired Can you quote me the sections, or the page and line number? I must've missed something somewhere. Of course, I've now read 2 different versions of the bill at least 3 times each, and, again, sleepy, so it's entirely possible I misread somewhere

Thanks for helping me sort through this!

 

[cobcoop]

If you applied and are granted a 1) dispensary license 2) growers license 3) food/hash license 4) lab license 5) or get an employee license THAT would be your defense. You would not be a caregiver. It would be more like booze. Some one walks in with a state Med mj card, you can sell them weed. An owner of another licensed dispensary comes in, you can sell them up to 25% of what you have in the dispensary.


Caregiver would still be in place but limited to 5 or less people. If you are a caregiver, you don't have to do all the stuff the other 4 defenses have to do, but you can only caregive for 5 people or less. If you live in an area where there are no dispensaries, you can petition to be this form of caregiver but help more than 5 people.

Chalk one up for the dispensaries.

 

[Frankie Pebbles]

/