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126w Hydro-Grow LED vs 250w HID, the definitive test

Frozenguy

Active member
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Hey ICMag :wave:

I, among others (not any others but some really great growers), was chosen by LEDGirl of Hydro-Grow to do a comparative test grow between a specified wattage HID and one of her LED units.

The Equipment
As the title says, I was provided with the 126w Penetrator unit. It uses a combined spectrum of 440nm, 470nm, 640nm, 660nm, plus white and IR LEDs.
85% of the spectrum is going to be in red, with 10% at blue and the remaining 5% in white.

The unit appears to be built well, and I haven't noticed any anomalies of any kind.

It's approximately 19"x12.5"x2.5" and the shipping weight was about 21 pounds. Came ready to go with built in hangers and carabiner type hooks.




I will be using a Hydrofarm 250w unit that I made into a remote ballast which also enabled me to wire in one of my air cooled hoods. This hood is 23"x20"x7" (7" is height, glass to top part of reflector)
The bulb I'm using for veg is just a GE 250w 4200K MH (Brand new)


FYI
The 126w LED unit was given and shipped free of charge, however that wont cause any biases or "ethical" complications because the ethical thing to do is report accurately and truthfully on the results of the test. I have not, and will not receive anything more then the 126w unit I already have, no matter the outcome of the test.


The Method
Both groups will be grown under identical conditions.
I will be growing organically, in LC's mix. Its peat, EWC, perlite and lime.
I feed when the plants need it using teas. My tea consists of powdered kelp, molasses, EWC, and a combination of guanos depending on veg or flower.

I don't use a pH pen or anything to specifically adjust the pH except for the lime in the medium.

I use LST a lot on this cut, works wonders and will be using it for this test.

The plants will start out in 3/4 gal pots and then transplanted to final containers which are about 4gal. Two plants per light.



The Genetics
The strain I'm growing is a Hindu Skunk cut I've had for a bit. She is my favorite I have found, due to taste, potency, and yield. I usually flower her out with a 250w MH Optilume bulb that is 4000K. I purchased one of these brand new for the test as well.
I pull in on average with this cut around 0.68gpw. Not the most yielding I've had, but best tasting and most potent which I care very much about. Here is a picture of some I have going right now. This is one among others that I put in a 3/4 gal pot and flowered after 3 days veg.





The Test Plants
These four sisters are from the same mother and were among eight others who got weeded (pun def. intended) out, due to consistency concerns.

Here is Hindu Skunk (HS) number one (_01). She will be under the HID.



Here is HS_02. She is also under the HID.



Here is HS_03. She is under the LED.



Here is HS_04. She is under the LED.




Some immediate pros I have come to realize with LED's is the fact that there isn't the need to replace bulbs which adds up.
The heat generated by these units is a tiny fraction compared to the heat of an HID which means no or significantly less AC, and less ventilation. The energy cost on the lack of so much AC/ventilation and replacement bulbs will pay for the unit pretty quickly as long as it can hold its own. Plus its a small compact unit that is very stealthy, unless you have light leaks, people will think you're under attack by aliens :abduct:.

Some immediate cons I've noticed is the lack of variety of lighting spectrum within the unit. It is what it is and although it may be an optimal spectrum, its not the same through out all of growing. We'll see how it compares.

I can't say if this is a pro or con, as I'm sure you all have varying opinions, but if you are under the light for over like five minutes you will see green once you leave, or turn it off. It is bizarre and cool at the same time. Maybe its a view into the future :yay:


With all that said, I feel very honored to have been chosen especially being among growers I've admired over the years.

Test starts now :jump: :dance013: :plant grow:


Frozenguy :smokeit:
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
Here is the first update after 5 days of vegging. The plants just got their first watering since potting. So far, including the initial watering, its just been water, nothing else.

RO water to be exact.

HS_01 (HID)


HS_02 (HID)


HS_03 (LED)


HS_04 (LED)



Frozenguy :smokeit:
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
Thought some of you might find this neat.

I'm not sure what it's technical name is, but I call it my lambda box. Lambda for wavelength lol. I made it so I could analyze the wavelength's of incoming light. I calibrated it using light from excited gaseous hydrogen and mercury atoms.

I attempted to get pictures of the wavelength readout from the LED but was unable to due to color saturation. I'll try a different technique later.

Lambda box



And here are the wavelengths for the 250w MH bulb I'm using.
What you're looking at is the incoming light on the left, with the wavelengths distributed on the right. The second photo is an attempt to elaborate the colors, not getting the incoming light, but the box is analyzing the same light.
I can calculate the exact wavelengths using the grid in the back, but I haven't yet.



Frozenguy :smokeit:
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
The plants here are at 15 days veg and just got fed for the first time with a veg tea containing mexican bat quano, kelp, molasses, EWC, and a little bit of seabird guano.

HS_01 (HID)


HS_02 (HID)


HS_03 (LED)


HS_04 (LED)


So far I'm impressed with the LED's ability. I didn't really know what to expect as it all looks so foreign to sunlight and HPS/MH.

I've noticed that the LED keeps the plants shorter, more compact even in terms of the branches extending outward. So far at least.
You can see on the two HID plants they each have a branch shooting out..
Something I will have to ponder.

Frozenguy :smokeit:
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
I LST'd the girls around the 14th of March, here they are right after that process.

HS_01 (HID)


HS_02 (HID)


HS_03 (LED)


HS_04 (LED)


Frozenguy :smokeit:
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
Here they are as of the 19th of March, 26 days of vegging.

HS_01 (HID)



HS_02 (HID)



HS_03 (LED)



HS_04 (LED)




After 26 days of veg, it appears as though the LED is in fact holding it down fairly well.

Frozenguy :smokeit:
 

LEDGirl

Active member
Veteran
Hey FG: Just want to make sure you're using the LED's at 6-9" from the plants. I can't tell the height in the last picture, or whether it was moved up for taking the photo, but you'll have the best results at that setting. Otherwise, things are looking good so far. Thanks for getting this test online :)
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
Hey FG: Just want to make sure you're using the LED's at 6-9" from the plants. I can't tell the height in the last picture, or whether it was moved up for taking the photo, but you'll have the best results at that setting. Otherwise, things are looking good so far. Thanks for getting this test online :)

Hey LEDGirl.. Yeah in that photo the light is about 11 or 12" away because I had sprayed them not too much earlier and didn't want the light too intense at the canopy. You think LED's even need to be moved after spraying? I don't want to risk anything during the test so I didn't want to experiment with that.. But I keep it about 7" above the upper canopy.
 

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
Fair? It's the whole point. MH is his normal lamp and the exercise is to compare his normal lamp against LED.
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
why are you gonna use a MH lamp to bud them out, doesn't seem like a fair test in that aspect IMO.
Why would this be unfair? MH does very well in flower. I'm not using a 5500K bulb or anything either, its a 4000K with a nice spectrum. MH may not have as many lumens, but that doesn't really matter. Blue light itself is higher up on the energy scale then red light which is at the bottom. I know it doesn't mean much if the plant doesn't absorb the high energy light, but it does.

Not many people have even used a MH all throughout flower, and those that do usually use a 5000K+ bulb. So if some of you are just going off of what others have said (Don't use MH for flower) I would test it out before talking about it.



Fair? It's the whole point. MH is his normal lamp and the exercise is to compare his normal lamp against LED.

Thanks FreezerBoy. Glad to see you're checking the thread out.
 

LEDGirl

Active member
Veteran
Hey LEDGirl.. Yeah in that photo the light is about 11 or 12" away because I had sprayed them not too much earlier and didn't want the light too intense at the canopy. You think LED's even need to be moved after spraying? I don't want to risk anything during the test so I didn't want to experiment with that.. But I keep it about 7" above the upper canopy.

Sounds good, thanks for letting me know. I generally move my lights up when I spray to avoid any burning. I lower it back down once it's all evaporated. ;)
 

LEDGirl

Active member
Veteran
why are you gonna use a MH lamp to bud them out, doesn't seem like a fair test in that aspect IMO.

Not certain why you're not fond of MH bulbs, but they were the only thing I used when I was at the end of my HID growing days. The bud they produced was superior to my HPS, which was originally figured out by adding a MH to my HPS room, and later doing separate areas. While a MH has less "lumens", the light they produce covers a lot more of the valuable photosynthetic region vs a HPS. In my opinion, this is going to be a great test.

HPS Graph:

eye_hortilux_spectrum.gif


MH Graph:

HortiluxBlue.jpg

 

Irie_Lion

Free up the Herbs....Let the Sacrament grow!
Veteran
Count me in too....great job on the thread so far. How long do u plan on veggin for before u flip them?? Also what do u usually get when using the MH alone?
 

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
looking forward to watching as this goes along. good luck with the testing.
:thank you: I'll try and keep it interesting :jump:

Count me in too....great job on the thread so far. How long do u plan on veggin for before u flip them?? Also what do u usually get when using the MH alone?
With this strain I get on average 0.68gpw with my 4000K MH bulb. With my Bubba Kush, I was getting 0.8gpw. I'll be vegging for about another 20 days after I transplant which will be probably be tomorrow. This cut isn't the fastest vegger. I think its important to note that I feel the LED plants are just as ready as the HID plants to be transplanted. I'm not doing them at the same time just because.


Cool thread, I'll be watching.
Glad to hear it blaze! :tiphat:
 

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
Thanks FreezerBoy. Glad to see you're checking the thread out.

No, thank you. And Sleepy and Verdant and all the others I can't remember at the moment. These are exactly the experiments I've wanted to see. All due respect to LEDGirl, I wanted to see what happened when LEDs were used by the "average" home grower in their "average" home setup.

No matter what the answers turn out to be, honestly documented, they benefit the entire class.

Stay cool.
 
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