question about seeds

[D.S. Toker. MD]

mine are in between paper towels(3 skunk and 3 mandala mix) and i just seen a little white tail on 2 of em. should i put them in dirt right now or let them go for a bit?...this is my first time tryin to plant a seed.

Hey cosmiccowboy. Forgive my fanatasism. Germinating cannabis is a touchy subject for me and ill explain... but first let me answer your question.

Seeds should be removed from any status of "presoaking or cracking" the very second the hull splits and if possible, even before the little tail sticks out. Tinkering with seeds that have germed and have long tails = runts. The more you can avoid fiddling with them when they are in that state, the better.

Now for the rant.

The practice of soaking seeds in paper towels is probably the most destructive and ineffective practice ever imparted to cannabis growers. Cosmicowboy, i promise you their isnt a single professional breeder in business today that uses that approach or that would recommend it for their seeds, yet it persist.

At the very least, buy a sponge and cut it in half, place the seeds in between the 2 sponges(antibacterial) and add 2 tablespoons of water to the sponge halves. This will at least provide the air and moisture levels that are required to germinate and will prevent the seeds from drowning. If you have a fish tank, put the sponges in a tupperware bowl with a top a let them float in your fish tank which is a constant 76 degrees. Better still, buy a little tupperware box, a small aquarium heater and float your seed box in it. This will provide constant temps at the right level.

The prefered method of germination that ANY plant expert would give you would be to plant the seeds in fine,airy soil, butt down and water thourougly. Then place under metal halides until they sprout. Seeds need 3 things to germinate and perform.

1. Moisture,(not water)
2. Warmth, (76-78)
3. Light stimulation.(There is a reason seeds sprout under the springtime sunshine.)

You can see how the paper towel method may be lacking.

Sorry, i cant help myself and seeds are so expensive..

 

[secondtry]

This is what I do:

Soak seeds in distilled water for 24 hours, by then they should have sunk to the bottom (floaters don't' germ well). Then I place the seeds on top of a small piece of moistened paper towel INSIDE of a petri dish and seal the petri dish with Saran Warp (this allows air in/out but stops microbes from entering and hurting the seeds).

I place the petri dish at an inclined angle so the pointy end of the seed (were the root comes from) is point downward. I keep the petri dish in a warm location (70-80'F) in the dark (light is not needed). Once the tap root appears to be < 3/4" I take seeds out and plant them.

^^^ That method is commonly what scientists and professionals use, the petri dish holds RH high and keeps out contamination. Keeping the seed at the same angle it would be in the soil prevents gravity from focking with the seed's orientation to the 'ground'. The important part is to take the seed out before the tap root is big so you don't hurt the root by allowing the root to 'attach' to the paper towel.

This is the best method to spout seeds, period. And the seedling has all the nutrients the seedling will need for the first week or two, thus I don't add kelp, etc, to the soaking water.


P.S. Try to be as aseptic as possible. I transfer from water to petri dish after I take shower and I am wearing freshly washed cloths, using a pair of tweezers (pre-soaked in 91% iso alcoholic) to place the seeds into the petri so I don't touch them directly which can pass contamination to them.


HTH

 

[secondtry]

PS.

Some people use anti-bacterial agar (ex. from http://www.fungi.com ) in place of paper towel, but that doesn't keep RH as high as paper towel in my experience.

 

[jaykush]

i just plant the seed, it knows what to do.

 

[secondtry]

Sources I use

I like to support Paul, even tho this petri dishes are a bit on the expensive side:


Antibactieral agar: http://www.fungi.com/tools/media.html

Glass petri dishes (can be sterilized for re-use in a pressure cooker): http://www.fungi.com/tools/containers.html

 

[secondtry]

Hey JK,

I agree, but I like to know the seed will sprout instead of waiting a week or two and wasting time on seeds that are duds...using pre-sprouting we know they are good to go And using the petri method lowers chance of contamination when they are very young and susceptible. Considering most sees are $1-2 a piece I like to give them the best chance of sprouting into healthy plants.

 

[DocLeaf]

mine are in between paper towels(3 skunk and 3 mandala mix) and i just seen a little white tail on 2 of em. should i put them in dirt right now or let them go for a bit?...this is my first time tryin to plant a seed.

Plant them into dirt (soil) and next time loose the tissue paper and sow direct into the soil.

Use tweezers to transplant them! these will prevent pathogens and poisons on the fingers killing the fragile seedlings.

Hope this helps

 

[secondtry]

P.S.

I also use the "cold stratification" method to mimic how a seed would naturally over winter. I place seeds in dry peat moss in the fridge for 1-2 months before I try to sprout.

 

[DocLeaf]

We just keep seeds in the fridge... or cool metal sweet (candy) tins

 

[VerdantGreen]

i do use stratification for some seeds but NOT cannabis - i have never read anything that claims it help for MJ and many of the genetics come from equatorial or tropical regions so it wouldnt make sense really imo. also as far as i know stratification isnt really stratification if the seeds are not moist - thats just called storage

i concur with Jay and DS. just plant them in soil and keep around 70 (maybe soak for a few hours). planting them a little deeper - 1cm - helps them avoid drying out and encourages them to shed the hull more reliably as they push through the soil.

i get 100% this way - or at least i cant remember when i last had a failure... germing and then transplanting them introduces many risks of damage or shock.

compared to most seeds cannabis is very quick and easy. you just have to be prepared to wait a few days to see them come up without being able to see them or mess about with them - which is a good discipline to learn imo.

V.

 

[DocLeaf]

Cold stratification mostly just prevents seeds from germinating,, even then some indica varieties that were poorly packaged / not dry stratified first ,, have been known to germinate in fridges.

As long as ppl aren't still rubbing seeds on the sides of match boxes.. that's the main thing ...lol

We started a thread here : http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3291994#post3291994

We can deal with the tissue issue as a community matter later

 

[secondtry]

Hey VG,

I too have not read anything about stratification of cannabis seeds, but why not mimic nature? (not all cannabis is from the topics) And the peat doesn't need to be moist, dry if fine. Hell, smoke is used to stratify some seeds!

I too store in cold temps, but not everyone does, so that is why I wrote about stratifying the seeds.

All the best, nice to see your back on IC.

 

[secondtry]

@ DocLeaf,

Cold stratification is not about preventing germination, it's about mimicking a seeds over wintering.

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi secondtry - thanks its nice to be back -cold stratification implies the seeds are moist as i said.

im not surprised you make rocket science out of sowing seeds lol - i think most processes are best kept simple. seeds evolved to germ and grow in soil.

each to their own

V.

 

[secondtry]

Thanks.

But could you PM me info showing the stratification needs moistness? I don't want to turn this thread into a stratification thread, but I don't think your correct. Ex. when stratifying bulbs one doesn't need moistness, just cold. And what about the point I made regarding stratification of seeds with smoke? (some seeds from an island which gets lots of forest fires won't sprout unless stratified with smoke...and I don't think smoke is moist )


Here is what I call a major cold storage! (this is new today)

"Norway doomsday seed vault hits 1/2 million mark"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/ap_on_re_eu/eu_norway_doomsday_vault

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey secondtry, i cant give you a reference but briefly, i know that moisture is required for the chemical changes to happen inside the seed during cold stratification or any kind of germination. keeping seeds in the cold and dry is a storage method that allows long term storage for all seeds afaik.
for every percentage point of water you remove from a seed before cold storage, you double its life. dry cold seeds are dormant

smoke stratification is also called heat treatment and is obviously for seeds that, in nature, undergo conditions like forest/heath fires - so the fire clears the ground and the seed is conveniently triggered into germination at the point when it has less competition.

hope that helps

V.

EDIT - heres your reference - page 103 of the Royal Horticultural Society book of Propagating Plants

 

[VerdantGreen]

p.s. bulbs are different to seeds as they have the required moisture in them already - they are more akin to perennial plants. remember that bulb plants also produce seeds as well.

 

[VerdantGreen]

As long as ppl aren't still rubbing seeds on the sides of match boxes.. that's the main thing ...lol

...

hiya doc

it sounds more impressive if you call it scarification -i agree it's not really necessary for cannabis unless the seeds are very old.
i do use it for sweet peas however - which are a great plant to grow if you want to hide the smell of cannabis outdoors

V.

 

[mad librettist]

Yeah bulbs are most definitely not seeds. Potatoes aren't seeds either. I hope we don't see charts now showing the opposite.

I find pure fresh wormcastings are germination/establishment insurance. I figured that out feeding fruit like tomatoes to my bin. Works. So easy, only a fool would bother improving it. There is one born every minute tho.

For storage I save up my silica packets from food and clothing. I keep seeds in a container with the dessicant.

Lol I have seeds that require scarification and I have not bothered. But apparently gibberilic acid is good.

 

[jaykush]

Hey JK,

I agree, but I like to know the seed will sprout instead of waiting a week or two and wasting time on seeds that are duds...using pre-sprouting we know they are good to go And using the petri method lowers chance of contamination when they are very young and susceptible. Considering most sees are $1-2 a piece I like to give them the best chance of sprouting into healthy plants.

i used to do all that, paper towel, sterile, little jar..... i find nature knows what its doing better than me. if you have to wait 2 weeks for seeds to not pop, you have bad seed. even a week is sometimes too long. i expect sprouts in 3-5 days when planting in straight compost. all a seed needs is moisture, warmth, and a place to set roots.

but if its what you like to do, i aint going to stop you.