Gnats laying eggs in buds!!?!?!

[BigSwifty]

OK guys I didn't even think this was possible, but I saw it with my own eyes this afternoon!

A little background: I've got a small, personal medical grow going in a semi-arid climate. My environment is in check, although humidity is a little higher than I'd like at 45-55%... me and my ladies have been able to manage. I've had a small population of gnats throughout the grow... not enough to even worry about.. until lately. I'm about 3-1/2 weeks into flower and the past few days I've noticed an increase gnat population while tending the plants. I'll notice several flying up around the light and then if I get down on my knees I see several hanging out on leaves under the light. They'll just sit there under the leaf almost sedated/dead or something as they don't move when I go to crush them.

Anyway, today I noticed several 5-6 gnats crowding this one bud on my prize plant. As I crushed one I noticed some brown residue... thinking it was just mashed-up guts I went on to the next gnat... same brown residue. I got out my pocket microscope and they were little fuckin' gnat larvae!! So it looks like a gnat laid a bunch of eggs in my bud!!! I'm guessing they won't survive there as it's probably not as moist as they need it to be...

Has anyone ever seen this?!!? What can I do to get rid of these fuckers ASAP? I put up sticky traps... put out some apple-cider vinegar to trap them... been spraying neem/pyrethrum on soil daily. What will fuckin' end this once and for all???? My next step is either mosquito dunks or nematodes! I'm in soil so I guess you have to crush the dunks over the soil or soak dunks in your water overnight prior to watering. Are there any downsides to the nematodes? Which one would you use? I gotta wipe these fuckers out!

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Sorry buddy, you dont have gnats.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960

EDIT: You have Winged Root Aphids aka Phylloxera

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Imidacloprid is the only permanent solution, but its a systemic(gets taken up by the plants) poison, so you cant use it 3.5 weeks into flower. You are going to need to use a temporary control method. Don't bother with nematodes, neem/azamax, predatory mites, pest strips, lady bugs, etc etc. You need real poisons.

Here is what you need to do:
1. Use the pyrethrin spray you've got to take down the leaf crawling population.
2. Go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a bottle of Spectracide(gamma-cyhalothrin) and apply it to your medium to hold off the root dwellers(they will be back and you will need to reapply).

 

[Buffalo Brown]

you can try gonats...its cedar tree oil.

Ive never heard of this bud gnat infestation, and I have fungus gnats as well. sometimes moisture builds up around the leaves when they are close together--water builds up on the leaf. Perhaps the bastard may have thought this was an opportunity to lay eggs given the environment ?

Theres a natural insecticide using tobacco. Basically take a couple of grams and let it set in some good water for a few days. water when the medium is on the dry side and you see a reduction in gnats. Ive tried this and the plants were fine, and I did see a reduction in gnats with continued use of the tobacco treatment, but they never truly went away.

stories like this are going to propel me to buy a bug bomb after this harvest.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

BTW, I just spent three months and $300+ figuring this one out so you can thank me by locating the little white scales under my avatar on this post.

Sorry for the triplet posts.

 

[Buffalo Brown]

Sorry buddy, you dont have gnats.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960

ahh.

excellent link.

 

[BigSwifty]

FUCK!! Just when I think I got everything dialed in...

Unfortunately I think you're right! I've got some reading to do though. The fuckers on the the bottom of the leaves look exactly like what's in that thread...

So, the spectracide is safe to use during flower? Do I just use this as a soil drench? I thought there were a couple different kinds of spectracide... which one? Also is are pyrethrums safe to spray in flowering? I didn't want to have to spray my foliage...

I already totally exterminated the spider mites so I hope to destroy these little bitches too!

 

[BigSwifty]

Oh yeah, where the fuck did I acquire these things too??

If it comes from your soil I think this is the last time I ever use FFOF!!

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

If it was from your soil, it is likely that the shop you bought from left the bags outside and were infested due to the shop's negligence.

They could have come from anywhere though. Spectracide is safe to use as a drench during flower at 7.5-15mL/Gal depending on how severe your infestation is. Just dont get any on the buds within 21 days of harvest. To guage how bad it is, count the nubmer of fliers. The fliers are the most rare life stage and if you've got a lot of them, you've got a lot living in the roots as well.

I think you can use the pyrethrin foliar spray untill you've got three weeks or so left, but I'm not at all sure about that so you are going to have to do the research yourself.

This is what you want for the roots(most important part)-

 

[BigSwifty]

Awesome... really appreciate the help! I'll finish reading before I ask anymore questions. Sounds like gnatrol can be pretty helpful too and also is organic. Do you have any experience with that???

I'm gonna take these fuckers out like a madman!! I'm pissed...

And these are definitely the problem (although they're flying aimlessly and in circles). My runoff tray was filled with little black bugs and at first I thought they were gnats but they were little fuckin' spider/crab lookin bitches. Don't know how they all died and got there though as I only sprayed a bit of neem on the top of the soil (thinking it was fungus gnats)..

FoCo I used to live in FC... not to far away these days. Thanks again for the help! Peace!

EDIT: OK almost through that thread... you are the man!! Spectracide sounds like the way to go... fuck the gnatrol!

 

[facelift]

Are you sure they are gnats. They might be aphids

 

[BigSwifty]

Are you sure they are gnats. They might be aphids

Ahhh... you obviously didn't read the thread.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Awesome... really appreciate the help! I'll finish reading before I ask anymore questions. Sounds like gnatrol can be pretty helpful too and also is organic. Do you have any experience with that???

I'm gonna take these fuckers out like a madman!! I'm pissed...

And these are definitely the problem (although they're flying aimlessly and in circles). My runoff tray was filled with little black bugs and at first I thought they were gnats but they were little fuckin' spider/crab lookin bitches. Don't know how they all died and got there though as I only sprayed a bit of neem on the top of the soil (thinking it was fungus gnats)..

FoCo I used to live in FC... not to far away these days. Thanks again for the help! Peace!

EDIT: OK almost through that thread... you are the man!! Spectracide sounds like the way to go... fuck the gnatrol!

Well it sounds like you read far enough to figure out that gnatrol is a waste of time. I dont know why that guy on the first page was talking that non-sense, but gnatrol is very specifically designed to attack fungus gnats and nothing else. It wont do a thing to the aphids.

Imid is really the way to go, but like I said you cant apply it during flower. Spectracide is just the best tool I've found to hold them off when you arent able to apply a systemic pesticide.

 

[BigSwifty]

Yeah, it sounds like holding them off is the only option... I'm obviously not going to be able to eliminate them...

I'd like to use:

Tobacco drench
Botanigard
Pyrethrins

But we'll see... botanigard is expensive shit!!! I'm out to buy some supplies today. If I can find the Botanigard though I'll probably get it. I have one Mr Nice plant that looks exactly like the Banana Kush you posted... it's now 26 days in flower and the entire plant is yellowing even after a healthy nitrogen dose!!

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Be careful, its real easy to burn your plants if you try solving that yellowing by giving them nitrogen. I found out the hard way.

The nicotine drench will be more harsh on your roots than Spectracide and it wont work as well. Botaniguard wont hurt if you have a lot of cash on you, but it really wont help much either. Dont be afraid of that gamma-cyhalothrin stuff, it is really safe to use dude.

You can either pay an ass-load for the natural solutions and get a tiny bit of relief, or pay $9 for the poison and get a lot of relief.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

So you already hit em with the tobaccy? What kind of concentration did you use? Will you let me know what kind of effects it has on the plants?

 

[BigSwifty]

Yeah, I hit 25% of them today with nicotine solution. The other 75% I'd just watered yesterday, so I'm going to hold off until they dry out... I don't want to give them root rot trying to solve this problem. I'm going to let them dry out pretty good... maybe that'll help a bit, but probably not since these fuckers are mobile. I think I read somewhere they can asexually reproduce! They are like the worst demon spawn I can imagine!!!

Anyway, I'm not sure the few plants I watered today even had an infestation... they are looking really healthy. The plants seemed to be unaffected by the nicotine, but we'll see tomorrow for sure. I didn't see ANY aphids in the runoff, but then again these plants aren't showing signs. I think it started in clones I got from a dispensary here, because some clones (purchased from a second dispensary) aren't infected YET. I don't think my infestation is extremely bad yet (well it is in at least one plant).

I was going to use just a pyrethrin drench, but to get a concentrated pyrethrum product (pyganic 1.4%), it's like $60 anyway, so I figured spend the $10 more and go with the Botanigard.

I haven't seen many posts about Botanigard, but the few I have seen indicate that it was successful!! I know some haven't had success, but I don't think everyone is meticulous in their pesticide application over the long-term. I wouldn't be opposed to the Spectracide, but I already made a commitment to use only organic pesticides to one of the end-users. I looked at Spectracide and I don't think I'd have a problem using it. I was a little concerned how it says it lasts for like 2 months...

I'll keep ya posted as I know a lot of people are struggling with these things. Man, I really appreciate you pointing this out to me! If I wouldn't have gotten on ICMag and posted about this I probably would've never known. In fact I looked at that root aphid post the other day for a second (before I posted) and I was thinking, "Thank god I don't have those things!".

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Anyway, I'm not sure the few plants I watered today even had an infestation... they are looking really healthy.

I have anecdotal evidence to suggest they prefer some plants. My fruity varieties were eaten alive, but my skunky+baby poop smelling strains finished strong with little damage.

The drying out will slow them down, indeed.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Spectracide, but I already made a commitment to use only organic pesticides to one of the end-users. I looked at Spectracide and I don't think I'd have a problem using it. I was a little concerned how it says it lasts for like 2 months...

Why not use the Spectracide on the plants that are suffering, but leave the ok ones 100% organic?

You have to understand how these chemicals work: there are two basic types of chemical pesticides, "kill-on-contact" and "systemic". Systemic means that the plants take the chemical up into their tissue and then the bugs die by sucking juices from the plant.

Spectracide is not systemic, it kills on contact. Thats why it doesnt work as a permanent solution, but that also means you dont have to worry about being poisoned by it. You just cannot use it as a spray. Drench only.

Would your patient prefer bud from a plant that had some chemicals on its roots, or would he prefer bud that was underdeveloped, lacked potency, and had a funny taste/smell. Because that is whats going to happen to your buds if you dont get treated real soon.

 

[BigSwifty]

I understand completely about the systemic pesticides VS. knockdown pesticides. You are probably right that the Spectracide is fine... I had read a post last night that suggested that spectracide could still be "taken up" by the plant even though it's not systemic. I doubt that's true, but I don't want to risk it. I'm looking for a long-term solution too and I don't want to introduce that chem into my arsenal for the long-term.

I'm set on Botanigard now. This study makes it seem like it's pretty effective against root aphids:

http://www.gpnmag.com/articles/some.pdf

States that Botanigard has about 96% mortality on root aphids... whereas orthene is 100% and dycarb is 85%.

 

[Cannoiseur]

Which spectracide are you guys referring to? I tried to search and just found that Spectracide is a brand name and that they manufacture a whole range of gardening chemicals.... what's the exact product that's best? I don't want to accidentally off my babies by getting the wrong stuff