Hempy Bucket questions.

[TripTonic]

Bump.

 

[pray4pistils]

Well here she (hopefully) is after 2 feedings at 1/4 strength Flora Nova grow. I have a question about when I should start feeding it a full tsp. instead of 1/2 tsp? Anyone know?

Do you have a ppm/EC meter to test nute concentration? If not, you should invest in one. I'd keep to about 300ppm (@.7)/.4EC until the plant is 6" tall with complex branching starting to happen. Actually, I might back off to about 150ppm/.2EC for the next week and a half and then ramp up from there.

 

[TripTonic]

I dont have ppm.........

 

[pray4pistils]

Well, you definitey need one. Otherwise you're never going to be able to "read" your drain water to see what the plant is doing. This means that you won't know precisely what to feed it. I recommend that you keep a daily log to record this information so that you can establish trends (which make it much easier to do efficient corrections).

Another very smart move would be to bubble up some aerobic compost tea and feed that every day. This will provide tonic of beneficial bacteria, fungus, microbes, etc., humic/fulvic acids, and more. Your plants will feed more efficiently and avoid stress and disease (without having to sterilize anything -which I consider ridiculous).

Here's what I'd brew with a $15 aquarium air pump, $1.50 in air line, a $3 air stone, and a 3gal bucket:

clean water (no chlorine or cloramines) @65-70degF
2 cups earth worm castings
1/4 cup alfalfa meal/pellets
1/4 cup oat meal
3tsp kelp meal
1tsp fish emulsion (found cheap it at Home Depot yesterday for $8/quart!)

Get this brewing for 24 hours or so and you'll probably see a frothy head forming. If it's annoying/messy you can take that down with a little vegetable oil or a drop or two of dish soap (so long as it NOT anti-bacterial). AFTER the 24 hours you can add a tsp or so of molasses. The reason for the waiting period is that you want to allow time for the aerobic bacteria to grow in number and overwhelm the nasty anerobic stuff that rots roots, etc. The sugars feed the aerobic-dominated stuff which surges in number. (If you sweeten too early, you may get a big bloom of the bad guys.)

Great news for you is that you can feed your plants with this tea and nothing else for the first 2-3 weeks of life. You won't burn them either, because the brew is 100% organic. (So, you can wait on the ppm/EC meter.) Keep your pH where it needs to be and all will be good. Then, as the plant starts to grow complex branching you should step up the FloraNova concentration and go from there.

Your plants will LOVE you. I guarantee it.

Btw, you should feed the tea throughout the plant's life. Add an air stone to the bottom of the hempy bucket to enhance the tea's effect and to promote healthy root growth over time. In fact, I had my buckets tuned so well that I found earthworms living in the perlite/vermiculite/coco/worm castings. This proves that there was a complete "soil"/food web" -the Holy Grail that 100% organic guys strive for. It CAN be done no matter what those snobs tell you. Get all the flavor/taste that they seek with the yield that hydro delivers.

 

[TripTonic]

Not to be mean man, but have you grown in a Hempy bucket before? Air stones dont do anything, and just get clogged with nutes. Also I have already bought nutes that I will be using. Thanks for the suggestions though, maybe someone else will find it helpful.

 

[pray4pistils]

Not to be mean man, but have you grown in a Hempy bucket before? Air stones dont do anything, and just get clogged with nutes.

Uh... I've done 2+ years worth of growing in hempy buckets with FloraNova as my base and various organic amendments to keep everything healthy. The air stones are critical whenEVER you run a non-sterile environment. Otherwise you end up with anerobic nasties. This is why folks typically run H2O2, Zone, or other equivalent products. It's a "nuke everything" approach.

Meanwhile, what I'm suggesting is that you use nature to fight nature... just as what happens outside. It saves a lot of money, increases yield, improves taste/aroma, and is substantially less work. You may end up not needing a ppm meter, too. Other than that... I guess there's no reason to value it.



P.S. I've never once had an airstone clog on me. I use the cheap stuff for fish tanks. Get your rig set up right and the microherd eats everything clean.

 

[Dalaihempy]

hi all i haven't used Flora Nova nutrients my self but i have used different nutrients and they main things are these first off you need to know the ph of your water if its around 7ph your right to go all you need to do is mix it as the instructions on the nutrient bottles recommends you will end up with the ph range the instructions of the nutrient bottle says and in short key starting point is your water.

You can do it as you feel is right but i feed my seedlings full strength feeding from as early as the seedling comes out of its shell and it opens up and the seedling opens up and the leaf gets its green color the only time i go to 1/2 strength feeding is with sativas or heavy sativa expressive plants that start to show me there not liking full feeding and they start to flower.

You need to look at like this the medium has no nutrient value it is ph neutral and the plant will have no nutrient value to feed from unless you add it to the medium so you need to feed them in short.

 

[TripTonic]

Uh... I've done 2+ years worth of growing in hempy buckets with FloraNova as my base and various organic amendments to keep everything healthy. The air stones are critical whenEVER you run a non-sterile environment. Otherwise you end up with anerobic nasties. This is why folks typically run H2O2, Zone, or other equivalent products. It's a "nuke everything" approach.

Meanwhile, what I'm suggesting is that you use nature to fight nature... just as what happens outside. It saves a lot of money, increases yield, improves taste/aroma, and is substantially less work. You may end up not needing a ppm meter, too. Other than that... I guess there's no reason to value it.



P.S. I've never once had an airstone clog on me. I use the cheap stuff for fish tanks. Get your rig set up right and the microherd eats everything clean.

You are way over complicating the simpleness of hempy though.

 

[dubwise]

the whole point of the hempy is the ease. I've not had to use a pen or a meter and the plants tell me what they need and when they need it. Not kncoking one's method over anothers, but IMO the plant will be better to tell you what's going on in lieu of a meter.

 

[pray4pistils]

You are way over complicating the simpleness of hempy though.

The classic and unmodified hempy bucket is the second best thing that ever happened to my grow "career". I ran FloraNova through it and the results were superb. The very best thing, however, was the slight change that I just mentioned. Instead of feeding only FloraNova I pour in tea also. Well, it's that and the fact that there's an air stone at the bottom, too. You may see this as "way over complicated". I don't. It's just an air stone with some extra juice and that's ALL. All else is the same.

So, what do you get for the very minor effort? You get a complete "soil"/food web that provides the benefits that I mentioned already. This is not something petty or insignificant. It's HUGE. You're already using FloraNova (smart choice!) which contains humic acids and other stuff that feeds microlife. However, that life is going to remain dormant unless it's given the right conditions. I call that a great waste of potential -not simplicity.

You asked for help. I've provided my perspective. Carry on.

IMO the plant will be better to tell you what's going on in lieu of a meter.

I can't agree more. However, a plant only tells you what's happeneed after the fact. A meter provides information ahead of time. This is especially helpful when you're a noob, while experimenting, when environmental variables are changing, etc. Again, though, I agree 100% in principle.

P.S. Props to Dalaihempy for bringing this great method to the masses. -many more props for (hopefully) keeping an open mind to innovation with his baby.

 

[TripTonic]

I'm asking when I should start feeding 1 tsp. instead of 1/2 tsp. In other words, when is my plant no longer considered a seedling?

 

[pray4pistils]

As I mentioned before, you can safely step up the concentration when the plant takes off in growth and starts branching in a "complex" way (i.e. not just off the main stem). Right now you've still got a seedling, so keep it light.

 

[TripTonic]

When does it become not a seedling. I mean its like 2 weeks old now.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

When does it become not a seedling. I mean its like 2 weeks old now.

I was a bit confused with this myself... I'm 30 days from seed and they're definitely not seedlings anymore... I'd say once you get 4 or 5 distinct nodes you're past the seedling stage...

 

[pray4pistils]

I was a bit confused with this myself... I'm 30 days from seed and they're definitely not seedlings anymore... I'd say once you get 4 or 5 distinct nodes you're past the seedling stage...

Yeah, that's generally quite true. However, not only must you know when to crank up the strength but to what degree also. In other words, it's not an on/off decision (1/2 tsp vs 1tsp, etc.)

Guys, burn happens when there's insufficient metabolism to consume the nutrients that are available. Once the plant really starts growing fast there's reason to support it with an increased concentration. So, the distinction about seedling vs. true veg status isn't the point so much as the what the plant demands regardless.

A fast-moving indica may need more synthetic nutes at week 2.5 from germination. A lazy sativa may not get revved up until week 4 or so. So, I suggest that you look at complex branching as an additional indication of development to node count on the meristem. If you go with some organics, though, the margin of error is way wider. (Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just sayin'...)

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hi all just a few points here why would you not feed a plant soon into its life i basically go into flower by week 4 and as i sed i feed my seedlings or freshly rooted clones full strength nutrients as soon as the seedling opens and its first set of leafs go green and clones as soon as they show roots threw the rock wool or coco starters the medium has no nutrient value so what you feed them is what they get to grow on.

Sativas or heavy sativa expressive lines in fact love full feeds in veg but some as soon as there put into flower will hate it and you will need to back off to say 1/2 strength feeding i don't know what organic hydro nutrients are available right now but up to say 6 months ago the only true organic nutrient was bio canna which i found okay but it didn't even come close to any hydro nutrients and from what i know from the researching i did on organic hydro at the time all the alleged organic hydro nutrients had synthetic nutrient component to it so it wasn't a true organic nutrient basically organics need time to brake down and were salt and mineral nutrients differ you feed with organics it takes time for it to brake down but the plant can take up the nutrients with hydro nutrients as soon as there feed the plant can take up the nutrients straight away.

As for running an air stone you can your call to use one or not but i remember a guy years ago at cw after i first posted the idea of the hempy bucket he sed by adding a stone it would be better and plants would grow better yield more so on funny thing was this same guy was one of the people posting making fun of me saying the hempy bucket would cause root rot so on then after i posted photos the larfing stopped any way long story short he did it his way and not only did his plants look well far from happy the yield was bad but with organics it may be of benefit .

 

[pray4pistils]

Hi all just a few points here why would you not feed a plant soon into its life

Did anybody suggest that a plant not be fed at all while it's a seedling? I certainly didn't. What's true is that there is concern about burning a young plant with too much nutes.

i feed my seedlings or freshly rooted clones full strength nutrients as soon as the seedling opens...

I'd say that's way out of step with the norm, but it's interesting.

the medium has no nutrient value so what you feed them is what they get to grow on.

Right, so obviously some fertilizer is needed. But, full strength? That's like feeding an infant a steak dinner and chasing it down with a protein shake.

from what i know from the researching i did on organic hydro at the time all the alleged organic hydro nutrients had synthetic nutrient component to it so it wasn't a true organic nutrien

You're correct in that a good share of "organic" nutes on the market are at least partly synthetic. I've done 100% organics before and that generally requires raw ingredients such as those that I listed the other day.

basically organics need time to brake down and... with hydro nutrients as soon as there feed the plant can take up the nutrients straight away.

Yep, but if you aggressively aerate an organic tea solution (as I suggested) you can pour it into the hempy bucket in pre-digested form. Nitrates are nitrates whether they were first ammonium or nitrites or not. The two critical differences are that a) the tea is way more complex and complete than anything made in a lab or factory, and b) the beneficial microlife keeps everything clean (as it does in nature).

Do keep in mind, though, that I don't bother with 100% organics anymore. The yield just doesn't compare. Frankly, I find the obsession with pure organics to be tedious and counter productive. It's more a cult than science!

he did it his way and not only did his plants look well far from happy the yield was bad but with organics it may be of benefit .

Your Holiness, I humbly submit to you that this was only one isolated instance. The main purpose of the air stone (as I implement it) is to keep the microherd thriving. No air = death to aerobic/beneficial life and then a surge of the nasties.

 

[TripTonic]

Perlite has plenty of space for air. Plus Hempy himself said that you can start off feeding at full strength.

 

[pray4pistils]

Perlite has plenty of space for air.

Cultivation of beneficial microorganisms requires active and very aggressive aeration. There is absolutely no question about this whatsoever. Organics + no aeration = CESS POOL. Aeration is not required if you are doing a purely synthetic grow. That was Hempy's point (which I've proven to myself from first-hand experience). Then after reading my pitch about including organics he also stated the following:

...but with organics it may be of benefit .

He's not outright convinced but he appreciates the rationale. Dallaihempy, I'm characterizing your stance fairly here, yes? If not, then you have my apologies and a request for correction.

Plus Hempy himself said that you can start off feeding at full strength.

Yes, I read his statement, too. Did I state as fact that he is wrong? No, I did not. With great respect due to the creator, understand that he has never grown with FloraNova. He has NO direct experience with this substance and its properties. If you care to be a non-questioning disciple, go ahead and follow obediently. That's your prerogative.

P.S. I realize that you snivel at my semi-organic method. My continued conversation about it is aimed at Dallaihempy -not you. If you rebut my statements, though, I'll surely respond.

 

[pray4pistils]

Perlite has plenty of space for air.

One more thing: Yes, it "has plenty of space for air", but NOT when that space is full of water. That's why the roots don't penetrate it and matte up at the water line. The aeration that I suggest is mainly to sustain the microherd in the reservoir (bottom) section -not so much for the roots in the upper area. the O2 enrichment certainly does benefit the roots, of course. They literally can't get enough (see "aeroponics").