ph and flushing
- Thread starter mofreak
- Start date
bendoslendo
Member
Some say yes, some say no.
I've done both and have seen no difference. I don't balance pH during flush.
I've done both and have seen no difference. I don't balance pH during flush.
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EvilTwin
Yo Mo...
Ya talking final flush? Then I don't think it matters as long as the water is reasonable neutral.
Now a middle run flush to deal with an issue...then I ph.
ET
Ya talking final flush? Then I don't think it matters as long as the water is reasonable neutral.
Now a middle run flush to deal with an issue...then I ph.
ET
smoke headies
Member
Yes, it does need top be pHed. As long as the pH is not under 5.2 and not over 7.0.. you'll be fine
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EvilTwin
Hey Headies...how goes it?
Mofreak, like Headies says here, and pretty much what I was suggesting in my previous post.
I wouldn't flush with some nasty ph 8 tap. Though I'm not completely sure why. Just doesn't seem like a good idea.
And I'm sort-of a believer in flush products. I use AN Final Phase followed by phed water.
Cheers,
ET
pray4pistils
Member
Why pH the water? Consider that this a) adds unwanted/unneeded nutrients (P & Ca), and b) the whole idea is to leach salts from the plant. What are you going to get by not setting the pH? -a nute defficiency? That's what you want!
Btw, I flush with purely organic nutes right towards the end. This keeps the plants energized right until the last moment but, yet still rids the plant of the synthetics.
the lonely shoe
Member
just flush with water,even if it needs to be bottled water......least it has no chemicals added
which it what you want to flush....any residue from chemicals
dont even bother with final flush....even more money wasted,but if you want to line theirs then......
which it what you want to flush....any residue from chemicals
dont even bother with final flush....even more money wasted,but if you want to line theirs then......
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EvilTwin
Adherents of the Jainish religion in India go naked and wear masks so they don't inhale any insects...thus killing them.
Point being that there are fanatics who take things to extremes in all walks of life.
The miniscule amount of chemicals in phed flush water is of no significance.
Just smoking ganja introduces all sorts of chemicals and products of combustion...whether it's grown organic or not.
So Mofreak, I think you get the picture. doesn't really matter that much. I personally would prefer to flush with urine of virgins, except I can't find any.
ET
Point being that there are fanatics who take things to extremes in all walks of life.
The miniscule amount of chemicals in phed flush water is of no significance.
Just smoking ganja introduces all sorts of chemicals and products of combustion...whether it's grown organic or not.
So Mofreak, I think you get the picture. doesn't really matter that much. I personally would prefer to flush with urine of virgins, except I can't find any.
ET
KosmoKramer
Member
I prefer to pH. Just makes sense to me. You pH so the plant(s) can absorb nutes at the most efficient rate. So why not pH during the flush so the plant(s) can flush at the most efficient rate?
newhiddengrower
Member
If you still have some nutes in your res then PH matters. If you have just water + final phase then it does not matter.
pray4pistils
Member
Why not? -because the whole idea is to stop uptake of nutrients from the water and to starve it. This causes the plant to burn resources within itself (which improves the smoke).
bendoslendo
Member
Apparently your not alone, GH is coming out with a line of virgin-urine based flushing products this spring.
Pro-Hymenex I think it's called.
PonixHydro
Member
I used to flush with ph water for 5 days then 5 days without. But then a very good friend pointed out that if you flush with just water you put the plant under stress, as it has gone its whole life being (force) fed nutes, then nothing, the plant doens know what is going on. With a flush it gives the plant a small amount of nutrient to keep it going without as much stress, and also helps the plant use up all the chemicals that have been stored up and helps the plant in most cases to excreete any by products that are in water and are unusable and stored by the plant. I now flush with a flush product (Vita Link) and PH.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
PonixHydro
Member
But this leaves (fair enouph organic) base chemicals in the plant, as all nutes have to have nitrogen phosphorus and potasium in, so if your flushing with nutes even if they are organic you will still have potassium and phosphorus in the end product. Which is the 2 main chemicals that leave the nasty after taste, and burning at the back of the throat. You are better off flushing with just water an stressing your plants than leaving chemicals in it.
Think about it?
pray4pistils
Member
I follow your train of thought. However, there is absolutely no reason to flush when growing with organics. It's not elemental potassium or phosphorous that create a poor smoke. Rather, it's nitrate compounds that are the culprit. You won't get a build up of this stuff in an organically grown plant.
In my hydro growing method I combine synthetic nutes and organics. The man-made (or, in my case "mined" since I use FloraNova) stuff gets things started. I add organic materials to the reservoir. This includes benefcial microorganisms which digest the food that goes in at the same time. It all foams up into a nice head on top of the water (which is very highly aerated). As the organics get stronger in concentration I back off the chems. Then, I repeat the process after rez change outs.
The flowering cycle is finished up with only organics for the final two weeks or so. This leaves them energized and healthy compared to flushing with pure water for the typical 1.5 - 2 weeks. During the last 4 days I go with pure unpH'd water to deliberately stress the plants. They drink all they need but can't eat. This instigates a heavier resin flow in some strains. In all of them, the final chemical leftovers are eaten up as the plant starves and turns funky colors.
Btw, you can definitely use food-grade citric acid to organically make the water more acid (and thusly keep the bud clean). And, you can add dolomite lime or something equivalent to bring it up.
However, pHing the water during flush is counter-productive. If one wishes to keep the plant fed and energized for longer, the better way to do it is to simply flush later. Then, do so with plain water and let the plant eat itself. In the end, a chem-fed plant must burn through all its reserves or the final product is less than desirable. There's no getting around it.
PonixHydro
Member
But their are a lot of trace elements in water that are taken up by the plant and cannot be used, so are just stored. The flush products draw these out. I have never heard of or seen a strain that produces more resin due to stress from being given plain water. As far as I'm aware the main factor is heat.
Wicked banter cheers
Wicked banter cheers
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EvilTwin
I have to say Pray4pistils...
You're convincing me. I actually don't have to ph my water to flush since my RO unit brings my H2O down to ph6. Plus I use a sulfuric acid ph down. I don't relish having P left behind...
But doesn't a long drying allow the plant to metabolize that?
I'm surprised this subject bought out such strong opinions.
ET
PS Bendo, thanks for the heads up on the virgin's urine. lol
You're convincing me. I actually don't have to ph my water to flush since my RO unit brings my H2O down to ph6. Plus I use a sulfuric acid ph down. I don't relish having P left behind...
But doesn't a long drying allow the plant to metabolize that?
I'm surprised this subject bought out such strong opinions.
ET
PS Bendo, thanks for the heads up on the virgin's urine. lol
pray4pistils
Member
Okay, but setting the water pH is critical for absorption. What you're talking about is leaching from the plant. I've never seen any evidance that this requires any specific balance between acidity and alkilinity. If you've got such information, I'd love to see it.
But, still... even if leaching is facilitated by pH... again, so is absorption. So, if it actually does work in both directions... then, one is going to negate the other.
Putting that idea aside, though, in a nutshell, pH'ing the water is great for getting the plant to leach remaining nutrients from the soil/grow medium and into itself. To repeat myself, this is counter-productive when we want it to move from the plant and back into the water solution (so that we can flush it away).
Actually you got me there. I was blazed when I wrote that and misspoke slightly. The increased resin flow coincides with the plain water and the stress that comes from starvation. However, it is instigated by other means. I get that going by turning down the humidity and by turning off the lights for 48 hours.
the lonely shoe
Member
you could use veg nutes for the last week ,which contain less phosphorus,but still feeding the plant(but cutting the phosphorus gives a better smoke and burn)
then just flush with water for 3-4 days
there should still be enough feed in the plant to not starve them
through these 3/4 days
then just flush with water for 3-4 days
there should still be enough feed in the plant to not starve them
through these 3/4 days
