Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[clstclandestine]

Flowering room 600w timed hps, air pump, 2 1min on 5min off timed water pumps. I'd like to run all of the pumps off of the same timer to cut costs. Intake and exhaust functions will be handled by some type of temp/humidty controller yet to be decided.Then a fan for the scrubber running continous.

Thats a whole lot going on in a small space! I'll probably be working on intake/exhaust baffling for a minute before I get it right with everything fired up!

I know I just threw a lot out there! I guess I'm really just looking to get two new receptacles in each area at the least and I could use your frankenstein cords to branch from that if need be. I know you won't really like that either! Ideally everything would be premise wired.

Thanks again! I'm looking forward to having an application that could really benefit from a relay timer such as smiley's! Damn nice work with a little help from our buddy the penguin! Good stuff! Thanks again guys!

 

[madpenguin]

I ... keep getting confused about the 120/240 voltage of the timer/relay and lights. 120 timer, 120 relay but I want my lights 240.

The 2 center contacts require a hot on one side and a neutral on the other. The center contacts operate on 120v. But because you have 2 poles, you can put L1 on one pole and L2 on the other pole. You will have a voltage potential of 240v if you measure between both relay poles. It's EXACTLY how I wired mine up. 240 on the relay but 120v to trigger the relay contacts.

I'm not sure how else to describe it.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

You, should once again, tell me to look at the fucking pics and read the words

I'm re reading the thread seeing the answers that I'm re asking. Sorry.

Cheers


EDIT I fuckin got this man..... I am gonna own this thing.....

Going through this thread again, I want to let anyone reading know, that everything I asked MP and everything I needed to know to make this box was already in this thread. You could delete all my posts and if I would have read more I would have gotten all the answers.

That's really friggen cool if you ask me. These guys put in some time here.

Thanks

Cheers
GS

 

[SmokinErb]

Madpenguin - I love you for making this thread. Unfortunately I just haven't been able to find what I need, or at least in terms that I understand =/

I'm no electrician, but I'm careful enough and intelligent enough (meaning, I do my effin research and make sure I do it right) to feel safe enough to trust my life on my wiring ability.

However, I have no clue if I even NEED to worry about it. My grow room is about 8'x8', an extra bedroom. I intend to run 3kw flower, an AC, an inline fan and circulation fans. Another 800w should be going to veg.

Now to be honest all of this electrical stuff is confusing me. I have no clue if its 120v or 240v, but is one better than the other for growing? Either way, being the the place is rented, I wouldn't be able to change anything about that if I wanted to, would I? Is there a way I could re-wire the breaker box so that the extra bedroom is on a circuit of its own? That's my main question. I know the breakers are rated to a certain amperage, and if I could have a dedicated one to that bedroom, I'd know exactly what I was working with. But who knows where that circuit is running? Hell it could be running the fridge and stove too.

My main concern is overloading that circuit. It's a really small extra bedroom, and obviously won't be on a dedicated circuit, and with the amount of electricity I plan on pulling through that room, I'm slightly worried. I believe there are 3 receptacles (outlets) in the room, but there could possibly be only two. See where I'm getting worried? Now we're talking about being forced to use extension cords.

I'm trying to do this as clean and professional as possible. I don't want extension cords and power strips in my grow room, obviously. I live there, and growing some pot isn't worth risking my life over. I'll stick with a single 400w ballast/lamp before risking that.

I'm not even sure what my question is. The breaker box is downstairs, the bedroom is upstairs. There's enough receptacles in the room (if there's 3) to cover the AC unit and the 5 ballasts I intend to use, but not the fans. Obviously I'd like to wire some extra receptacles up. Can I wire them directly to another receptacle?

Edit: I'm sure you've already covered some of this and I missed it going through all of these pages. Simple Yes/No answers are acceptable along with "read closer" I just have a major headache from trying to figure all of this out. Figured I'd take the easy route.

 

[madpenguin]

Madpenguin - I love you for making this thread. Unfortunately I just haven't been able to find what I need, or at least in terms that I understand =/

I'm no electrician, but I'm careful enough and intelligent enough (meaning, I do my effin research and make sure I do it right) to feel safe enough to trust my life on my wiring ability.

However, I have no clue if I even NEED to worry about it. My grow room is about 8'x8', an extra bedroom. I intend to run 3kw flower, an AC, an inline fan and circulation fans. Another 800w should be going to veg.

Now to be honest all of this electrical stuff is confusing me. I have no clue if its 120v or 240v, but is one better than the other for growing? Either way, being the the place is rented, I wouldn't be able to change anything about that if I wanted to, would I? Is there a way I could re-wire the breaker box so that the extra bedroom is on a circuit of its own? That's my main question. I know the breakers are rated to a certain amperage, and if I could have a dedicated one to that bedroom, I'd know exactly what I was working with. But who knows where that circuit is running? Hell it could be running the fridge and stove too.

My main concern is overloading that circuit. It's a really small extra bedroom, and obviously won't be on a dedicated circuit, and with the amount of electricity I plan on pulling through that room, I'm slightly worried. I believe there are 3 receptacles (outlets) in the room, but there could possibly be only two. See where I'm getting worried? Now we're talking about being forced to use extension cords.

I'm trying to do this as clean and professional as possible. I don't want extension cords and power strips in my grow room, obviously. I live there, and growing some pot isn't worth risking my life over. I'll stick with a single 400w ballast/lamp before risking that.

I'm not even sure what my question is. The breaker box is downstairs, the bedroom is upstairs. There's enough receptacles in the room (if there's 3) to cover the AC unit and the 5 ballasts I intend to use, but not the fans. Obviously I'd like to wire some extra receptacles up. Can I wire them directly to another receptacle?

Edit: I'm sure you've already covered some of this and I missed it going through all of these pages. Simple Yes/No answers are acceptable along with "read closer" I just have a major headache from trying to figure all of this out. Figured I'd take the easy route.

No problem... This is probably THE biggest problem growers face. Is running new circuits to safely handle all the equipment. No insult intended towards homeowners that grow, but..... You really need to be renting when you grow. Uncle Sam will seize your house in a heart beat if your caught doing this shit, however, the landlord doesn't get in trouble at all and you don't loose any assets, except for your freedom....

Anyway... Yea... You guessed it... You really need to run some new wire to that room. I rent an upstairs unit of a "quadplex". The grow is in the finished attic (half of the attic) and my panel is in the basement along with 3 other tenants panels... The house was built around 1910 and has all knob and tube wiring. Atleast it did before I moved in.

I've systematically rewired the entire house, including the 3 other units with the landlords permission. So... I'm in a better position to be walking around the basement with wire in hand. None of my neighbors think twice about it.

But, your going to need to old work a couple new circuits to that room... Period. That or just use one 400w like you said and take 4 months to pull a small harvest....

As far as 120 vs 240, we've had this debate on other threads before. The only reason why you would want to run 240 is to half the amperage usage. You'll still be paying the same bill. If you only have a 60A main breaker, then yea... You might want to consider running as much stuff as possible at 240v.

60A is probably the most common service you'll see in an older, rented house/duplex/quadplex. It's what my main breaker is and I'm pulling 40+ amp at any given time by using 120v. And my grow is small.

So.... I think you already know that that one bedroom is going to be on the same circuit as other receptacles in the house.

You say "The breaker box is downstairs, the bedroom is upstairs"...

==========================================
QUESTIONS:
==========================================

Is down stairs a basement and upstairs a second floor? Is this a house, duplex... what?

How old is the house? does it use knob and tube wiring or newer wiring?

How many neighbors do you have? Can you run new circuits without your neighbors seeing you?

 

[madpenguin]

@ clstclandestine...

Your pretty much in the same boat I think... You have to get in there, get dirty and old work some shit....

There's really no way around it. Not if you want to do it safe anyway....

 

[madpenguin]

In your post here you used stranded wire for everything. I want to know if I can just remove the sheathing of some of the 12/3 I have and use those instead of buying stranded.... cool? Can I still use crimp terminals on solid copper?

You can use the spade terminals on solid.... I don't think it will make quite as good of a connection as the stranded. give it a test run. Crimp a spade onto some solid and try to pull like hell... If it comes off then you probably have your answer...

 

[madpenguin]

Also George, seems like you plan on using 12/3 throughout your distribution panel. I think I already know your just planning on stripping it for the conductors within.

There is no need to run a multi wire branch circuit on that panel so the only reason you should be using double pole breakers is to feed your 240v receptacles. Use black and red wires for that. For 120v use black and white or red and white...

I'm thinking there is something in the NEC about running a bare grounding conductor within conduit. As in you can't do it. Not sure tho. I really don't want to start flipping thru article 250. It's huge. If you want to be anal, go buy some green sheathed solid wire to terminate underneath the dedicated ground bar kit that you install in your panel. Otherwise, I suppose the bare copper from the 12/3 will work just as well. It's not going to carry a current unless something goes wrong anyway....

If your still unsure about anything, post some pics of your wiring as you do it.

 

[SmokinErb]

No problem... This is probably THE biggest problem growers face. Is running new circuits to safely handle all the equipment. No insult intended towards homeowners that grow, but..... You really need to be renting when you grow. Uncle Sam will seize your house in a heart beat if your caught doing this shit, however, the landlord doesn't get in trouble at all and you don't loose any assets, except for your freedom....

Dude, you're the best. I've said this over and over again, and have only gotten flak for growing in a rental. About how unsafe it is, blah, blah, blah. Point is, its a risk growing pot in a non-medical state regardless of where you live, or where you grow. The idea is to MINIMIZE the risks in order to increase the rate of success.

But, your going to need to old work a couple new circuits to that room... Period. That or just use one 400w like you said and take 4 months to pull a small harvest....

I figured as much. However the 400 is unacceptable. I've done small grows for long enough, and vertical growing is... well I'm dead set on it. I'm GOING to make it happen.

As far as 120 vs 240, we've had this debate on other threads before. The only reason why you would want to run 240 is to half the amperage usage. You'll still be paying the same bill. If you only have a 60A main breaker, then yea... You might want to consider running as much stuff as possible at 240v.

60A is probably the most common service you'll see in an older, rented house/duplex/quadplex. It's what my main breaker is and I'm pulling 40+ amp at any given time by using 120v. And my grow is small.

Okay, well this place is rather old. It's really nice, actually, but it was built long ago. I'll figure out the breaker amps. I'm due to sign the lease about next week, for a March 1st move in date. Part of my lease is that I do my own repairs (where possible) and the walls need to be painted, so I'm going in before we actually move in to paint the walls (as well as take some measurements of my grow room, and now check out the breaker box). I'm thinking this would be an ideal time to re-wire everything, given the whole place will be empty.

Now for your questions:

Is down stairs a basement and upstairs a second floor? Is this a house, duplex... what?

The place is a duplex, it's a large 2 level house split in half down the middle. It comes with a basement, but access is from outside. The breaker box is located in the laundry room downstairs, all 3 bedrooms are on the 2nd floor. I love the layout because there is absolutely no reason anyone needs to go upstairs except for the residents.

How old is the house? does it use knob and tube wiring or newer wiring?

You make me feel like an idiot. However, I haven't even looked at the wiring yet. The house is old. Early 1900's I'd assume. The walls are like 12"-18" thick brick, if that says anything. The place is rather modern given its age, so I guess its possible its already been renovated and brought up to date. The breaker box definitely has been changed out since it was built, I'll attach a pic, but its closed and you can't tell a damn thing about it. Well maybe YOU can.

Edit: Dude, if its an old house with K&T wiring, does this mean I have to change all the wires out? =/ I really hope THAT's not beyond my abilities if necessary.

Double Edit: I did some research and my understanding is that K&T doesn't have a ground? I did this research REAL fast lol, so I'm probably wrong. If that's the case though, my outlets are 3 prongs... meaning they have a ground. I take it that means it's not K&T?

How many neighbors do you have? Can you run new circuits without your neighbors seeing you?

Aye. Currently there are no neighbors. It's just a duplex so there's one other apartment attached. But yes, I can re-wire things without being seen. Everything is in MY apartment. The only thing I'll be sharing with the neighbor (when I get one) is the front porch.

Anyway, here's where my breaker is located, in the attached pic. I doubt it, but maybe the box alone tells you something about it? Doubtful, but you're the electrician here haha.

Thanks a lot though man, this is the one thing I'm really trippin' out about.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

Well I think I got enough to start....... wonder how long this will take me

 

[madpenguin]

Dude, you're the best. I've said this over and over again, and have only gotten flak for growing in a rental. About how unsafe it is, blah, blah, blah. Point is, its a risk growing pot in a non-medical state regardless of where you live, or where you grow. The idea is to MINIMIZE the risks in order to increase the rate of success.

Yea... I've seen everyone around here saying if your going to grow, do it in your own house. That's probably the stupidest thing you can do.. Rent a house, then grow. Second best it to rent a duplex like your doing, then I come in last with renting a quadplex. If your growing in a full fledged apartment building, then you like living on the edge..... That's almost a sure bust having that many people around.



That sucks your panel is flush mounted. Makes it a nightmare to old work a new circuit.... I'm guessing the breaker box is on the first floor and not the basement, right? If so, then you need to run new wire up one level.

Hopefully you have an attic crawl space where you can fish wire up to and then back down to your grow room. Old working wire is anything but straight forward. You've got to walk around and scope out EVERY possible route to run wire. This includes popping off baseboards and drilling down thru the plate to hit the stud cavity where your panel is. Just becareful of hitting live wires.

Figuring out how to old work some new circuits is going to be on your end. Were I at the house I could walk around and scope everything out and then come to a determination of what the best possible route would be to run wire. I just don't know any of that.

When you get a chance kill the breaker that feeds that room and pull one of the receptacles out of the wall and tell me what kind of wire you see. Yes, Knob and tube doesn't have a ground but it is often times hooked up to 3 prong receptacles so you can never tell what kind of wire you have just by looking at the receptacle. You need to physically inspect the wiring to know for sure.

Get back with me.

 

[SmokinErb]

For the record, I've grown in a true apartment complex. Without a carbon filter. Yeah. I was younger... and far stupider. Anyway...

Shit. The only good thing I can think of is that the breaker box is located basically directly under the grow room. But you're telling me I have to run a new wire from the breaker box to the bedroom? Fucking hell. I was sorta hoping I could just... re-arrange the existing wires

Anyway as far as the attic goes, I have absolutely no clue if there's one or not. I didn't actually look, there may be some sort of access point in one of the closets or something, one of those like 2.5'x2.5' holes or something, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

So my newest question is... if I'm wiring up a new circuit to that room, and the old circuit is on contains wiring for receptacles outside of the room... does this mean I have to re-wire those too? Or am I just basically disconnecting the wires for the receptacle in the grow room and re-wiring it to its own little circuit on the breaker box?

It's just the actual process of re-wiring. I get extremely nervous around live wires =/ Even with the breakers switched off lol. Do I have to actually REMOVE the old wires, or can I just leave 'em laying inside the walls?

 

[madpenguin]

No.... Leave all your existing receptacles alone. Just old work a new circuit or two to that room. Go back around pages 2-5 and look for the old work tutorial I did.

As George has said a couple times now.... All this stuff has been covered.

 

[SmokinErb]

I get it now. Actually that's just about all I really need to know. You're saying leave the one in there as it is, and just wire up a new circuit or two to the room. Gotcha. That's actually a lot simpler that way too. Hardest part is gonna be running that wire. I really hope I have an attic =/

 

[madpenguin]

I get it now. Actually that's just about all I really need to know. You're saying leave the one in there as it is, and just wire up a new circuit or two to the room. Gotcha. That's actually a lot simpler that way too. Hardest part is gonna be running that wire. I really hope I have an attic =/

Even if you don't, as long as you have an exposed basement ceiling, you'll be alright. Just take it straight down and then over to the stud cavity where you need to be up 2 floors and then pop base boards off on both levels and drill down with a 1" bit. Some fish tape or fiberglass poles and a lot of patience and you'll get there...

Also, don't be afraid to do drywall damage. That's easily fixed. Especially if your going to paint anyways...

 

[madpenguin]

I just finished my light controller tutorial on page 34 for those of you interested.

 

[SmokinErb]

Should be the last question. What if my basement ceiling isn't exposed? That better not mean ripping down walls =/

But yeah, I contacted my roommate (Yes, I know, I know,) and I'm trying to rush him along a little ways with signing the lease. I need it done NOW obviously. We don't move in until March, but I need to go in and paint 2 of the bedrooms (1 is pink, 1 was an old nursery or something.) That would provide an EXCELLENT time for me to go around, take some pictures, and see if there's an easy way to lay that wire.

I'm just hoping I'm capable of making the newly installed outlets look like they belong there =/

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

I just finished my light controller tutorial on page 34 for those of you interested.

I was re reading it when you updated. I was glad to see better detail of joining the pig tails with the copper crimp sleeves, I'm making pigtails now. May not photo much in detail since your walkthrough is so good.

BTW, how long should my pig tails be ish?

Thanks

 

[madpenguin]

I was re reading it when you updated. I was glad to see better detail of joining the pig tails with the copper crimp sleeves, I'm making pigtails now. May not photo much in detail since your walkthrough is so good.

BTW, how long should my pig tails be ish?

You can make them however long you want but the NEC requires that they atleast stick 3" out past the face of the box.

Wirenuts make an excellent connection when it comes to solid conductors. The only reason why I went the crimp route is because all my shit was stranded....

It looks like your using spec grade 15A receptacles. Keeping the end straight (if it's solid wire) and using the receptacle plates to screw down on the wire should be better than using spade connectors.

 

[madpenguin]

Should be the last question. What if my basement ceiling isn't exposed? That better not mean ripping down walls

Try to draw a diagram of where the panel is in relation to the grow room. Did you already say it was right below the room?

If the panel wall is lined up right underneath one of your grow room walls, then you are golden.

I'm just hoping I'm capable of making the newly installed outlets look like they belong there =/

Page 4 of this sticky has most of the important information. Towards the bottom is the old working tutorial. It's easy. Anyone can do this stuff. I guarantee it....