Kaneh
Member
You wouldn't even have any case to make if everybody shared your uber-naive way of thinking. Everything is not all rosy and not all people are nice with good intentions, and no, everybody will not just get along and sing songs by the campfire for all eternity.
Are you kidding me? I don't wan't to sit on campfire with redneck-fascist-morons like you? LOL
Uber-naive? If something is naive in this thread, it's the analog between breaking home and immigration. But hatemongering like that clearly works to people like you.
It's our choise, do we wan't our children to go to pointless wars, or fix the system so that resources are not in hands of few. If everyone could live safely and have their basic needs fulfilled there would be no need for wars (or supporting war-industry).
Do you really believe that you can stop terrorists by bombing some remote country? If you would attack my country, bomb my house down and kill my family I would get my revenge. That means one more terrorist ready to attack USA. And by the way, that's exactly what you are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq.
you don't WANT to break into my house! assuming i didn't mistake you for a criminal & kill you, there is too much needs doing here. fucking gutters need cleaning, walls need painting, aint got enough water pressure to fill a fucking balloon, much less take a shower. kitchen is a mess, laundry room looks & smells like a damned jr high locker room, kids won't pick up after themselves, & the carpet is so old that dust flies up when you walk, covering the furniture. one of the cats has pissed under my computer desk, the whole damn yard is a quagmire from all the snow/rain/sleet/hail (yes, had all FUCKING FOUR of them this week!) & my truck door is frozen shut, locking me away from the only bud i have left! oh, did i mention that i got laid off from my job ? no ??? could you tell that i'm stressed? i WISH someone would break into my house...
i'm tired of dealing with this shit by myself...
i'm tired of dealing with this shit by myself...i don't know what state your from Vonforne but im from California and up until about 1992 we had bilingual classes (English/Spanish) imo it was great it gave a chance for the immigrant children to learn English and the citizen kids to learn Spanish (if they wanted to pick it up) plus when you're young you learn incredibly faster now you have to wait until HS to pick either Spanish or french (unless they cut foreign language)
anyways education is suffering here in great part to the effects of prop13 passed sometime around the 50's; the inability to fire incompetent teachers and (some not all) kids/parents just not caring (i.e why learn math i have a calculator or i can just "google" it, mot to mention texting and spelling checkers destroying years of grammar)
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I don't hold allegiance to any particular nation because I am not a nationalist, nationalism is the problem not the solution to many of the worlds problems in my mind....
......we are all members of one race, the human race and the sooner the worlds population comes to realize this the better...
I have traveled extensively in my half a century alive on this planet and have seen for myself what misery is caused by different groups, countries and religions separating themselves from others by borders, fences and walls constantly in fear of attack, violence and warfare propagated from generation to generation by either side and so firmly entrenched in the collective psyche of the masses that it seems like humanity is doomed to failure because it just does not look like it can undo or forget all of what has gone before........and continues to go on....even to this day.
......we are all members of one race, the human race and the sooner the worlds population comes to realize this the better...
I have traveled extensively in my half a century alive on this planet and have seen for myself what misery is caused by different groups, countries and religions separating themselves from others by borders, fences and walls constantly in fear of attack, violence and warfare propagated from generation to generation by either side and so firmly entrenched in the collective psyche of the masses that it seems like humanity is doomed to failure because it just does not look like it can undo or forget all of what has gone before........and continues to go on....even to this day.
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vonforne
I do not think the person that wrote that article was addressing race but more the immigration part at the time.
Since I posted this in he USA I have since move to the EU and have followed regulations expected of every immigrant. I am registered, Tax number, Business, attended the immigration and integration school as required etc.
But in hind sight I can understand why people who suffer economic distress in their own country for one thing or another would just pick up and leave for a better life. Regardless of the requirements of the host country. After all life is tough every where ATM.
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Since I posted this in he USA I have since move to the EU and have followed regulations expected of every immigrant. I am registered, Tax number, Business, attended the immigration and integration school as required etc.
But in hind sight I can understand why people who suffer economic distress in their own country for one thing or another would just pick up and leave for a better life. Regardless of the requirements of the host country. After all life is tough every where ATM.
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All that flowery anti-nationalist shit is great and all.. But there is a difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration. No one is saying "Keep out the Mexicans". Keep out the Mexicans who don't have enough respect for our country to move here legitimately, by applying for citizenship.
Nationalism and Globalism are two sides of the same coin. Both have their ups and downs, but at least with Sovereign Nations there is somewhere you can go if you don't like where you live.
Nationalism and Globalism are two sides of the same coin. Both have their ups and downs, but at least with Sovereign Nations there is somewhere you can go if you don't like where you live.
same thing here.
theres just many folks illegal that dont know a dick from a donut, have them working with you gypsy bud and when you pay them to put ten seeds in a pack they smile and say yeah and when orders arrive people are pissed because there is only 3. ahhh they work hard give them a raise.......until then send them to genki he can teach them
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tokinafaty420
LOL, none of us were alive when America was founded so lets just stop this blame game about stealing land. Would you like the 160 million Americans whos ancestors came from Europe to return the land to the Native Americans move back home into your countries? I didn't think so... so just drop it.
What about all the Canadians? Australians? New Zealanders? Most of South America shares ancestry with Europe through Spain and Portugal. Its just ridiculous Americans are still being blamed for "stealing land".
What about all the Canadians? Australians? New Zealanders? Most of South America shares ancestry with Europe through Spain and Portugal. Its just ridiculous Americans are still being blamed for "stealing land".
jmansweed
Member
Kaneh,
Us Americans came from over the pond man - It was Europeans who killed most of the natives in North America - then they became Americans. It's pure ignorance to imply Americans colonized the New World - it was Europeans who spread the economic, governmental and agricultural methods our current system is based on. Many of which proved destructive, disruptive and violent.
Europeans raped and pillaged this country - and many others - long before we had a chance, so lets get off the high horse.
In America - we except all people - regardless of race, gender or religion. We have a system set up for this process to occur. Although ineffective in many ways it exists. The majority of illegal immigrants completely disregard our entry laws, and dishonestly exploit weakness in the system. This is why the majority of us are beyond frustrated with the situation.
We "whine" as you put it because we PAY for it. We only ask they enter our country properly and contribute in taxes - just like every other working USA citizen.
To imply we are a hopeless people is disappointing. The USA does a tremendous amount of good in the world. - and that can't be ignored. I'm willing to bet we've helped your country at one time or another - and I have no clue where your from.
I normally stay well away from non MJ related threads but your ignorant way of thinking amazes me. You need to be more sensitive with your statements and absolutely think them through before spitting them out.
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tokinafaty420
*Lights up a fat spliff and passes it around* 
We're all family on this planet. We need to relax and get along.
May all beings be happy!
We're all family on this planet. We need to relax and get along.May all beings be happy!
Kaneh
Member
Yes, It was europeans who went to america. But after your ancestor destroyed original american culture they became americans.
So, now that you have the chance, are you gonna continue the tradition of oppression, or do you wan't to change things?
I understand your point (kind of). We have same situation here. But were not talking about illegal immigrants, we are talking about refugees from war zones. It's problematic also, believe me. We have teenagers coming here who have lived all their lives in middle of violence and war. Some of these kids are ex-soldiers. Dealing with Mexicans is probably much easier.
But back to USA. You have people coming there to do you're dirty work for very cheap, and yet you complain that you "PAY for it".
I don't get it. They should pay taxes from their minimal salary? What they get back? These people are not stealing your money, it's the Big Man who make the laws and own the companys you and immigrants are working for.
You're not more hopeless than rest of the mankind. (Sorry, I got carried away.)
But the illusion that USA is a country that is doing good in this planet is just propaganda. Yes, you have done some good, same as other countries. It's just that you have blood of the innocent in your hands.
You're absolutely right, I need to be more sensitive with my statements. But I was replying to posts that were just so unbelievable stupid, that I couldn't control my self... sorry.
You are wrong on both counts there Mr. Naive Euro-head. I'm not a redneck, I am countless more times sophisticated than you will ever be and I'm not a fascist either, as a matter of fact I am anti-fascist-socialist. Europe is far more fascist than the USA, as free speech is under attack for people who tell the truth. The UK didn't even let Geert Wilders or Michael Savage into their country.
You are also contradicting yourself, and proving my point that everybody can not get along.
Telling things like they are is not hatemongering.
Not true at all. I laugh at your naive thoughts. Wars will happen regardless, not all humans are good and they don't have good intentions. Certain groups seek control and domination over others and can only be stopped by force.
It's called war, we got more than enough bullets for every single terrorist on the planet, including all of their pathetic and weak offspring. I haven't heard about any complete capitulation yet, so the war will continue.
rootfingers
Active member
Many illegal immigrants (not illegals, being alive is not a crime) purchase social security numbers on the black market so they can work. They pay taxes using them and do not get any benefits, not only are they not protected by our "peace" officers their papers are more heavily scrutinized when applying for social security or unemployment. Sooooo, in many instances they are paying taxes on meager wages without workplace protections and then sent out of the country (and many times away from their families) if they dare complain about abuse or try to claim benefits from the taxes they pay.
Borders are fantasy, my home is very real. Analogy fail.
jmansweed
Member
Kenah,
I appreciate your response and truth-fully respect the manner that you did. My apologies also if I was rash. I don't want ignorance associated with stupidity. Your not stupid by any means.
In reality, illegal immigrants, who are improperly in the US do cost us more than they offer. Understand how health care, housing, food and even things like driving illegally without contributing in taxes forces the rest of us the give that much more. Yes, they work, and they work hard. This simply does not off-set the immense amount we spend to sustain them and they're families.
That alone is important. The majority of illegal immigrants are well taken here - and much better taken care of than at home. Keep in mind even though we make such noise about it we still refuse to dam the river. We allow these people in. The hypocrisy and beaurocracy of the USA are our real downfall.
We have more freedoms in our country than most - and deserve more. I will admit our arrogance has given us a bad name- and the USA needs to work to improve the worlds view of us as a people. Hind sight is 20/20 indeed - we drop bombs because thousands of Americans were killed watching the sunrise from their offices - diligently working to support these immigrants and obviously themselves. I agree - war is horrible but lets put things in perspective. We were responding. Rightfully so.
In truth - war has morphed into a strange entity. Had this happened 50 years ago - I believe countries would be at war - not the fascist groups within them. Killing innocent bystanders has happened for sure - it is war - but less total people have died in this war than in days of wars previous. I want to be clear I condone none of this - but it is reality.
I believe compassion and education would be better priorities than bombs and occupancy - but that is only one voice and I will be ridiculed for that alone. Understand, however, the fact that I can disagree with my government, and feel entirely appropriate doing that - is one value we Americans hold high. In fact, you are even welcome to criticize. This is the USA. There is a reason people flock here, beyond repression and inhuman practices in they're own country. The United States in many ways, represents freedom and that is what we're all after.
In any case - I like the fact this has remained a discussion. I appreciate that.
I appreciate your response and truth-fully respect the manner that you did. My apologies also if I was rash. I don't want ignorance associated with stupidity. Your not stupid by any means.
In reality, illegal immigrants, who are improperly in the US do cost us more than they offer. Understand how health care, housing, food and even things like driving illegally without contributing in taxes forces the rest of us the give that much more. Yes, they work, and they work hard. This simply does not off-set the immense amount we spend to sustain them and they're families.
That alone is important. The majority of illegal immigrants are well taken here - and much better taken care of than at home. Keep in mind even though we make such noise about it we still refuse to dam the river. We allow these people in. The hypocrisy and beaurocracy of the USA are our real downfall.
We have more freedoms in our country than most - and deserve more. I will admit our arrogance has given us a bad name- and the USA needs to work to improve the worlds view of us as a people. Hind sight is 20/20 indeed - we drop bombs because thousands of Americans were killed watching the sunrise from their offices - diligently working to support these immigrants and obviously themselves. I agree - war is horrible but lets put things in perspective. We were responding. Rightfully so.
In truth - war has morphed into a strange entity. Had this happened 50 years ago - I believe countries would be at war - not the fascist groups within them. Killing innocent bystanders has happened for sure - it is war - but less total people have died in this war than in days of wars previous. I want to be clear I condone none of this - but it is reality.
I believe compassion and education would be better priorities than bombs and occupancy - but that is only one voice and I will be ridiculed for that alone. Understand, however, the fact that I can disagree with my government, and feel entirely appropriate doing that - is one value we Americans hold high. In fact, you are even welcome to criticize. This is the USA. There is a reason people flock here, beyond repression and inhuman practices in they're own country. The United States in many ways, represents freedom and that is what we're all after.
In any case - I like the fact this has remained a discussion. I appreciate that.
rootfingers
Active member
You invoke the memory of people killed on 9/11 as "diligently" working to support immigrants? They could have just as likely been "diligently" working to support an evil government that allowed or even encouraged their demise that morning to happen. They could have been just as easily been "diligently" working to support a border wall construction to be put up in the coming years. Or a warship to be made from the recovered steel that burned through their bodies that day.
You say we rightfully retaliated? Was that when we let Osama Bin Laden escape in Tora Bora? Or when we killed more than a hundred thousand innocent Iraqi's (Iraq, a country which had nothing to do with 9/11) and decimated their infrastructure?
What exactly does it cost the US as a country to have illegal immigrant workers here? Idk, you seem to have added it all up already so let us know the specifics please. I think the benefit outweighs the negative but can't prove it so I don't say it. One point you make is health care costs. You want reduction in health care costs? Its simple, we go to single payer "socialized medicine" and cover any human that needs care happens to be in our country. Its a simple taxation (oh no he didn't) that you pay instead of your insurance premiums, and it would be cheaper no doubt, so that whenever you or your kid or your neighbor or the bus driver or that illegal immigrant need it they can go to the hospital and get whatever treatment without ever getting a bill meant to bankrupt you or them. Sounds like a cheaper better system than our current one no? Yet folks want to keep oppressing and suppressing others why? In the name of keeping the government small? That is ludicrous, we have embassies in most countries on the planet, are fighting several wars, are we not growing our government by doing things like this? Yet when do Americans see any of the pie for the things they need like education, like health care, like a 21st century infrastructure?
