damn HMK,
soon your gonna have more trolls than rez!
people don't hate unless you're doing something right
soon your gonna have more trolls than rez!
people don't hate unless you're doing something right
Quest to find out WHY some BHO turns into "butter" or "budder" over time?
Telegraphist.
Member
I normally smoke a water bong, never tobaco
I do have the odd pure joint now and then with the wife, i noticed i used to skin up and then inhale without lighting up just to enjoy the aroma. I thought that maybe was the power of aromatherpy and just a mental thing, lost when you sparked up and inhaled smoked.
I think there is a role for them to play in medical cannabis somehow, even just for the aromatherpy effect, it all has to help.
I do have the odd pure joint now and then with the wife, i noticed i used to skin up and then inhale without lighting up just to enjoy the aroma. I thought that maybe was the power of aromatherpy and just a mental thing, lost when you sparked up and inhaled smoked.
I think there is a role for them to play in medical cannabis somehow, even just for the aromatherpy effect, it all has to help.
G
Green Supreme
Dry hits rule Tele. That is if the weed is grown properly, mmmm terps. Peace GS
This thread and some other recent ones are relevant to a question which has been asked before but not answered quite definitively imho.
SWIM and friends have been discussing the "best" type of hash, method-wise, disregarding strain-potency differences.
It seems that Sam has said terpenoids affect the high more or at least somewhat more than non-THC cannabinoids. I have a feeling that flavour and terpenoids do affect the high, I don't know about potency effects.
So then the goal is to grab as many cannabinoids and terpenoids as possible, what method works most efficiently?
Bubble loses water-soluble material; Does butane extract all cannabinoids and terps? My understanding is that it does. How about qwiso? Then there's dry sift which you can get pretty much free of any plant matter/etc. And Sam's dry sift which I've read about.
But as far as THC and straight potency goes, does the method used to make the hash alter thàt potency on a shear mass basis. (Not yield!)
That is is one gram of bho as "potent" as one gram of bubble or qwiso? (Once again, assuming same strain).
Also how about the straight "potency" along with terpenoids or any other factors? What method?
I've read some people's opinions but I'm interested to hear more. Thanks for any input, I thought with all the science being thrown around in this thread I might get some good responses.
Peace!
SWIM and friends have been discussing the "best" type of hash, method-wise, disregarding strain-potency differences.
It seems that Sam has said terpenoids affect the high more or at least somewhat more than non-THC cannabinoids. I have a feeling that flavour and terpenoids do affect the high, I don't know about potency effects.
So then the goal is to grab as many cannabinoids and terpenoids as possible, what method works most efficiently?
Bubble loses water-soluble material; Does butane extract all cannabinoids and terps? My understanding is that it does. How about qwiso? Then there's dry sift which you can get pretty much free of any plant matter/etc. And Sam's dry sift which I've read about.
But as far as THC and straight potency goes, does the method used to make the hash alter thàt potency on a shear mass basis. (Not yield!)
That is is one gram of bho as "potent" as one gram of bubble or qwiso? (Once again, assuming same strain).
Also how about the straight "potency" along with terpenoids or any other factors? What method?
I've read some people's opinions but I'm interested to hear more. Thanks for any input, I thought with all the science being thrown around in this thread I might get some good responses.
Peace!
Telegraphist.
Member
In my opinion, BHO gives better results, being a purer (less plant matter) than bubble and take less unwanted other plant organic matter (sugars, chlorophyll, waxes etc) that QWISO and other alcohols take with them aswell as the goodies (THC,etc)
I also find that BHO does indeed extract some terpenoids (not sure if it extracts them all), a good purge will keep the volitiles but they do evaporate gently anyway
Would like to know the answers to your other questions also so i cannot comment on them. Some of the books i have read say that terpenoids have nothing to do with potency but these books are from the 70's and 80's so old data.
Quick
Member
I have found that BHO may seem to give better results, but no better than ISO in the long run.
I have done side by side comparisons, and Iso gives exactly the same volume extraction as Butane, but takes twice the effort.
I would say the ultra-cold process using Butane would preserve more terpenes than Iso. Having said that I find there to be less residual taste to Iso oil (you can literally smell the sweetness of butane in BHO), making me think that Iso has less of an affinity to stay with the resin than Butane.
The individual seperation of heads in Bubble gives me a more 'weed like' stone than solvent-extraction, just at a cost of potency.
IMO terpenes don't always add just to the potency, sometimes their added effect is more 'kind of high' oriented that 'how high'....
Anyway, there's no doubt that they help, as Sam_t_S has already stated that pure THC doesn't get you very high, but adding terpenes will....
Telegraphist.
Member
Quick, have to ask, did you find the iso to be too polar and extract too much? I started my oil making days with iso and acetone and found that these two solvents extracted more than just the cannabinoids, then I discovered alkanes.
For what it is worth, i do remember that acetone extractions did budder rather well, but i did purge with extreame predijices (sp) to try and get every last ketone molecule out so not too good for terpenes
I do agree with you Quick about some kind of hydrocarbon interaction between the butane and the extract oil but a way has now been shown in another thread how to rid alkanes from BHO extractions but i personally think that is going too far for a normal extraction but for the purests, i have to try it just once the absolute way
Do you know of any way a home stoner scientist can test for individual terpenes at all?
For what it is worth, i do remember that acetone extractions did budder rather well, but i did purge with extreame predijices (sp) to try and get every last ketone molecule out so not too good for terpenes
I do agree with you Quick about some kind of hydrocarbon interaction between the butane and the extract oil but a way has now been shown in another thread how to rid alkanes from BHO extractions but i personally think that is going too far for a normal extraction but for the purests, i have to try it just once the absolute way
Do you know of any way a home stoner scientist can test for individual terpenes at all?
Quick
Member
For primo results I would only use Iso with bud (not leaf/trim), with butane either can be used (not because of polarity but absorption?), the Iso will drag chlorophyll out fairly quickly.
BHO holds more moisture in my experience, but I'm buddering it, not purging it into glass.
The same volume of BHO compared to Iso budder (1 ounce buds cooked into appx. 1/8 oil) weighs an extra .5-.7/gram (4 to 4.2 BHO vs 3.5 Iso)
BHO holds more moisture in my experience, but I'm buddering it, not purging it into glass.
The same volume of BHO compared to Iso budder (1 ounce buds cooked into appx. 1/8 oil) weighs an extra .5-.7/gram (4 to 4.2 BHO vs 3.5 Iso)
Telegraphist.
Member
Good day Quick
Thanks for your input, makes interesting reading
As you say iso easily takes the chlorophyll out as well so why use it, unless you find it helps for some reason. Would not iso being a secondary alcohol take more water with it relative to alkanes?
Could you please go into some details about the values and figures you have please, i am not too sure what you mean by it all. Do you mean density, sorry i am not sure
Absorbtion i cannot see being a problem, unless solvents are in limited supply. I always use the best solvent (in this case butane) for the job, unless you mean something else by it
Got a feeling that there is going to be a few extractions this weekend looking into this
Thanks for your input, makes interesting reading
As you say iso easily takes the chlorophyll out as well so why use it, unless you find it helps for some reason. Would not iso being a secondary alcohol take more water with it relative to alkanes?
Could you please go into some details about the values and figures you have please, i am not too sure what you mean by it all. Do you mean density, sorry i am not sure
Absorbtion i cannot see being a problem, unless solvents are in limited supply. I always use the best solvent (in this case butane) for the job, unless you mean something else by it
Got a feeling that there is going to be a few extractions this weekend looking into this
Quick
Member
I have found that when using 28 grams of Watty Kush to make oil with Isopropyl, the resulting resin collected fills a contact-lens container, it is usually about 3.5 grams.
The same buds used to make Butane oil would also fill the same contact-lens container, only the resin would weigh more than 4 grams [same physical volume, different weight (density difference?)].
I always attributed this to water as the BHO would sizzle when hotknived.
There is a a taste and smell with BHO that smells sweet and butane-like, after many tests at my place and other people's I find it to be commonplace, and something I've found to be lacking with Iso preparations.
To this I attributed the lack of solvent residue in the oil, but my evidence is merely conjecture.
The same buds used to make Butane oil would also fill the same contact-lens container, only the resin would weigh more than 4 grams [same physical volume, different weight (density difference?)].
I always attributed this to water as the BHO would sizzle when hotknived.
There is a a taste and smell with BHO that smells sweet and butane-like, after many tests at my place and other people's I find it to be commonplace, and something I've found to be lacking with Iso preparations.
To this I attributed the lack of solvent residue in the oil, but my evidence is merely conjecture.
Telegraphist.
Member
Do you know the density of purged BHO for your strain and could you compare that to your results to work out if it is water or maybe air if it is budder BHO
Different densities could also be because of different chemical make-up, maybe less dense fractions in the iso compared to the bho for some reason?
If your taste buds detect the presense of butane then your evidence is more than conjected, butane must be there, maybe a longer purge or higher temperature purge. I have notived that atmospheric air condenses when it contacts the extraction, so maybe plays a part somehow in water in the BHO
For some reason, i am having difficulties in finding some 99% iso to try this with so going to try with acetone to see what happens.
Different densities could also be because of different chemical make-up, maybe less dense fractions in the iso compared to the bho for some reason?
If your taste buds detect the presense of butane then your evidence is more than conjected, butane must be there, maybe a longer purge or higher temperature purge. I have notived that atmospheric air condenses when it contacts the extraction, so maybe plays a part somehow in water in the BHO
For some reason, i am having difficulties in finding some 99% iso to try this with so going to try with acetone to see what happens.
thats totally ridiculous. butane has no odor, and anyone who makes oil often doesnt use cheap shit butane that has mercaptans in it. you cannot smell butane in well made butane oil. not even in shitty purged oil i think. its still smells overpoweringly like the terpenes only.
Telegraphist.
Member
I know that kut but if they can taste butane (thiols present?) then they can taste thiols (mercaptans but you know that). How else can someone taste butane? propellent ?
Preaching to the converted here kut
Preaching to the converted here kut
G
Green Supreme
Don`t think many that know Quick would doubt his purge. Peace GS
Telegraphist.
Member
Yes, i agree that Quick knows how to purge , and also knows his senses, that is why i ask his views
I also find that 'hydrocarbon/ petrol' taste in some BHO extracts, that is lacking in other extract (acetone). I just placed it as improper purge as i really purge the acetone. Also noticed that a final quick water wash never got rid of that 'taste' if anything the wash made it more pronounced to me (maybe just the way my body chemistry detects it)
Not looking for arguements (been enough of them on this thread i think) but ideas, theories and more questions please
I also find that 'hydrocarbon/ petrol' taste in some BHO extracts, that is lacking in other extract (acetone). I just placed it as improper purge as i really purge the acetone. Also noticed that a final quick water wash never got rid of that 'taste' if anything the wash made it more pronounced to me (maybe just the way my body chemistry detects it)
Not looking for arguements (been enough of them on this thread i think) but ideas, theories and more questions please
Telegraphist.
Member
Quick, did your purge go as far as removing the chorophyll and sugars that the iso extacts, do these account for your figures. You did not say if you did a last water wash or not
Kut can you prove that you purge every last molecule of butane from your extracts, can you also guarentee that every molecule in the butane you use is n-butane, every last molecule!, no propellants or other hydrocarbons. A lot of people treat you like a god Kut, please respect your legions.
A lot of people are now employed by the keep cannabis illegal party to seek and document what is said on internet, these are quallified scientists paid to rip our chances of legalisation to threads, lets not give them the chance please.
Just looking for ideas, and questions not arguements please
Kut can you prove that you purge every last molecule of butane from your extracts, can you also guarentee that every molecule in the butane you use is n-butane, every last molecule!, no propellants or other hydrocarbons. A lot of people treat you like a god Kut, please respect your legions.
A lot of people are now employed by the keep cannabis illegal party to seek and document what is said on internet, these are quallified scientists paid to rip our chances of legalisation to threads, lets not give them the chance please.
Just looking for ideas, and questions not arguements please
it seems you ask far too much of me. why should i try and prove something that is also ridiculous? and why should i have to prove anything to anyone anyhow, unless i make claims that are not validated. i just pointed out why what was said about oil smelling like butane was nonsense. nothing more, nothing less.
equating purity of oil with legalization chances for marijuana do not go hand in hand. just because some may suspect types of extractions to be impure( in my case i detest ISO extracts; they always taste fuc cked up, like changed or something. harsh vapor.), has no effect on scientists view of the marijuana plants effects. most likely extracts would not be legalized as easily. similarly with the case of hard liquor, its illegal most places to make your own, but beer and wine is ok. similar to how oil is illegal in holland.
kushkommander
Member
this is what I know from my experiences of making bho in the past year;
-Using trim/shake/buds that is NOT COMPLETELY dry will turn out buddered type of bho
-Using trim/shake/buds that IS COMPLETELY dried will turn out glass/rock candy type of bho
also not sure if this is true but ive noticed when I purge slowly(1-2 hours) with medium temp I get more clear glass type bho but when I purge with really hot boiling water it turns out buddered without even touching it, I never whip or even disturb the bho until scraping.
I will show some pics tomorrow, ive got to get new batteries, I hope my input helped someone, personally I dont think buddered bho is bad or worse than glass type bho, imo it is easier to handle and store
-Using trim/shake/buds that is NOT COMPLETELY dry will turn out buddered type of bho
-Using trim/shake/buds that IS COMPLETELY dried will turn out glass/rock candy type of bho
also not sure if this is true but ive noticed when I purge slowly(1-2 hours) with medium temp I get more clear glass type bho but when I purge with really hot boiling water it turns out buddered without even touching it, I never whip or even disturb the bho until scraping.
I will show some pics tomorrow, ive got to get new batteries, I hope my input helped someone, personally I dont think buddered bho is bad or worse than glass type bho, imo it is easier to handle and store
