lighting advice from the pros...please help!

[big twinn]

so i am trying to order my lights...for my current setup i am going to use CFL's

my box looks like this:

the dimensions are: 32x20x33

as far as lighting, which lights should i order here (how many watts and how many bulbs?
http://www.1000bulbs.com/2-to-200-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-Screw-In-Light-Bulbs/

need to know ASAP so i can start my grow!

 

[disfunktional]

Have you thought of trying out pl-ls? Check out this thread here, its full of all kinds of good info, may even sway your decision. idk check it out.

 

[kweb1989]

i know you may have seen this a few times already but from what i read... i would stick to the 42 watter or close to it. I say this for a couple of reasons...

1. you can put multiple bulbs in for a more even spread of light
2. you can keep plant pretty close without burning
3. if a bulb goes out, it will not hurt the grow in any significant amount
4. Extra low wattage could be mounted at lower parts of the cab to provide lower buds with light it might not have really been able to recieve because of the canopy above.
5. They are easy to replace at almost any store... kmart,walmart, grocery stores, lowes, home depot, hydroponic shops, etc. online too...
6. they offer multiple light spectrums [27k warm white] [50k full spectrum] 27k for flower 50k for veg.. i would use mostly 27k bulbs with a couple 50k's to help some blue spectrum to your medicine

I am sure you know most of this but it could be helpful information to others who may not or are just beginining to learn.

As for how many bulbs, i would try to shoot for 250 at least and probably 500 watts towards the max.
***250-500 ACTUAL watts... not the equivalent***
so if you do 42 watters... i would say 10-12 bulbs should be decent.
Like i said up top, you could even add a couple random 5 watters under the colas/canopy to add more light to the popcorn nuggets.
*Wire them parallel also*

^^^free to insight no offenses taken as we are all learning^^^
I hope this helped....

 

[big twinn]

thanks for all the inputs...very helpful!

 

[big twinn]

do you think this light fixture would be enough to optimize my grow???
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=51907

any links where i can find a similar complete lighting fixture that will fit my dimensions and hold either 3-4 bulbs? or should this be more then enough light?

 

[big twinn]

anyone?

 

[ICAN]

I'm not a pro, but I've read that a general rule is to shoot for 5,000 lumens per square foot of space. So that fixture has 10,000 lumens, and your cabinet is 11.3 sq feet. That's nearly 900 lumens per sq foot.


As for bulb kelvin/color, be sure to check out the "high-pod" thread to see how well 4100 kelvin PLL CFL's can do for both veg and flower.

 

[fatigues]

do you think this light fixture would be enough to optimize my grow???
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=51907

any links where i can find a similar complete lighting fixture that will fit my dimensions and hold either 3-4 bulbs? or should this be more then enough light?

No - that lighting fixture provides only half the light you need in that cab. It's not enough light. And as you have noticed, that fixture is too wide to install two of them in your cab, given the depth of only 20".

Those HTG fixtures come in only 110w configurations. They do not make 220watt PL-L fixtures for the North American market. A shame, really.

Those who have been using PL-L's for a cab like yours will purchase and install the following parts instead. This will provide you with exactly what you need. You then follow the wiring tutorial for PL-L lamps here. The total cost, without shipping, is $125.23. The following lighting setup should permit you to grow and harvest about 4 ounces every 4 months or so from your cab - about 1 oz per month:

1 Fulham Workhorse 7 or 8 ballast = $39.71
4x55w PL-L lamps 4100K lamps will do fine. Yes, the cheap lamps work great. You can get another 4x3000k 55w PL-L lamps to use for flowering too, if you like = $13.60
4x 2G11 sockets = $7.96

Optional (but highly recommended)

4 Reflectors from AH Supply. = $63.96 (Part 36522 - MIRO 4 Reflector for one 55 watt compact)

Alternatively, you can get 4 x 55 bright kits from AH Supply. Each bright kit provides you with all parts, fiddly bits , sockets and ballasts and reflectors in one eay shipping package for $129.99. You will still have to buy lamps separately though - and I don't recommend getting your lamps from AH supply. They are too expensive there.

Please note that PL-L triphosphor lamps are far more wide spectrum than other lamps, so that the extra "bang" for 6400k and 3000k lamps is not that great. You can get by quite nicely with just using 4100k lamps for both veg and flower. Still, if you want, more specialized lamps are available.

Best source for 55watt PL-L Lamps:

6400K Vegetation Lamps at HTG supply for $15.95 for 2 lamps
4100k All purpose Lamps here from 1000Bulbs. com for $3.40 ea.
3000k Flowering Lamps here from 1000bulbs.com for $3.40 ea.

By the way, that's a square footage of just over 4' not 11' as ICAN mentioned (his math was off). The above lights will deliver, with proper reflectors, an excess of 5,000 lumens to each square foot of your grow. In other words - just about the perfect amount of light.

Install the above, line the inside of your cabinet with Reflectix Double Reflective mylar Insulation. That will ensure that your cab is as well lit as you can make it with that flourescent wattage. Light proof your cab and get your ventilation and odor control looked after - and then it's time to grow

 

[big twinn]

wow thanks for your help! im still learning so im still up for more input but that last post is EXACTLY what i was looking for...thanks i plan on making the order!

 

[ICAN]

Here are some 9325k 55w for $14 and change each
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/Terrarium/F55BX-AR-FS

and I could be wrong (happened plenty of times before :b ) but here's what I got:

32x20x33
is
2.6' x 1.6' x 2.75' = 11.4'ish Am I calculating this wrong?

edit: oh, that's cubic feet, not square feet.. got it.
Though it would seem helpful to have some equation that takes into account the total space, unless what's being grown is a sog or scrog and basically 2 dimensional. Or if the bulbs are mounted vertically, then the bulbs are lighting the plant in a series of 2D square foot sections anyway.

Wow the correct calculation means my own cabinet will be 8,500+ lumens per square foot

 

[fatigues]

Here are some 9325k 55w for $14 and change each
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/Terrarium/F55BX-AR-FS

and I could be wrong (happened plenty of times before :b ) but here's what I got:

32x20x33
is
2.6' x 1.6' x 2.75' = 11.4'ish Am I calculating this wrong?

edit: oh, that's cubic feet. Though it would seem helpful to have some equation that takes into account the total space, unless what's being grown is a sog or scrog and basically 2 dimensional.
Wow the correct calculation means my own cabinet will be 8,500+ lumens per square foot

Yeah - cubic vs. square footage. It's not that the cubic foot area of a grow space does not matter, but if we are talking about testing the 5,000 lumens per sq. foot rule of thumb -- we need to measure square feet, not cubic feet.

 

[fatigues]

wow thanks for your help! im still learning so im still up for more input but that last post is EXACTLY what i was looking for...thanks i plan on making the order!

No problem. By the way, if you have not yet ordered your cab? Might I suggest you look into The High-Pod. You can skip the cost of buying reflectors and just add another Fulham 8 and 4 more sockets and lamps.

Substitute a 55g standard barrel for the Rubbermaid trash can in the original high pod, and use 440w PL-L instead of 330w. So basically, build it out with 440w PL-L and a barrel.

Such a unit (I'll have pics next weekend) should grow 7-8 oz from one plant in about 4-5 months.

 

[big twinn]

i think you are calculating volume(LxWxD)....i believe square feet is (LxW) so it is (33h x 20d)...(1.6'x2.75') = 4.4 sq feet
correct me if im wrong

 

[big twinn]

jeeesus that's a ton! 7-8oz...ugh...unfortunately i do not think that the high pod will be stealth enough for my current grow location...however once i move this summer i am definitely going to look into it!

 

[ICAN]

i think you are calculating volume(LxWxD)....i believe square feet is (LxW) so it is (33h x 20d)...(1.6'x2.75') = 4.4 sq feet
correct me if im wrong

lol that's right for sure.


For a wider selection of plastic containers around 10 gallon to 55 gallons, round and square, this is a great site http://www.globalindustrial.com/c/janitorial/garbage-recycling/containers-plastic
with enlarged photos, dimensions, and all available colors. Though using the Krylon Fusion flat white spray paint is a smart idea on anything not already white.
I think the square can looks more like an indoor rubbermaid storage container, and blends in a little better inside house, if that helps for anyone. More cubic space inside it also. The smaller sizes help it look even more like just a rubbermaid storage container.

 

[big twinn]

very nice...!

...so i havent figured out how to gain "rep" pts to PM people...so can any of you PM the makers of the "High Pod" for a DIY so it can be recreated...i read the whole thread and could not find this info...and after all, did he not state that was one of the intensions he had for the thread...? this is just insane...and way cheaper then purchasing a wooden cab.

 

[ICAN]

bigtwinn, the all the required parts are listed in a few posts in the thread, and the construction is too or it is intuitive. The wiring of the ballasts could be a tricky part, but that's detailed in the thread too.

 

[big twinn]

Fatigues- so when i went to by the cab. they were sold out and wont have any until tuesday. However, i keep going back and reading the PL-L "High Pod" thread and your post. in other words, the high pod you mentioned (not the original, but the one you mentioned) has really sold me on the idea.

so, im assuming you are building this unit as you mentioned that you will have pictures on it in the next week? so do you have a parts list of the unit you are putting together?
how different is it then the original's parts list?
this is the originals:

(1) 44 Gallon Trash Can
(6) Sylvania 55W CFL - 4-pin base, 4100K color temperature
(6) 2G11 Lamp Sockets
(2) Fulham Workhorse 8 Ballast
(6) 1.25" PVC Elbows
(3) Plastic Tube Guards (you cut them in half from what I understand)

---Ballast and socket Wiring
---Heavy-Duty Velcro
---PLASTIC Spraypaint - Flat White

also, is there ANYWAY possible you can give more detailed instructions on how it is assembled? the original talked about the features, however it wasnt clear enough stated for me to completely recreate it. you have helped me thus far, and i am grateful! anyway you could venture a little bit further as to how exactly everything should be assembled? as well as the ventilation (that was poorly explained in the original thread...atleast for a guy like me)

THANKS!

 

[fatigues]

Fatigues- im assuming you are building this unit as you mentioned that you will have pictures on it in the next week? so do you have a parts list of the unit you are putting together?

also, is there ANYWAY possible you can give more detailed instructions on how it is assembled?

I will post a proper tutorial with pics next weekend (or the week after - depends on when it is finished).

For now - here is the parts list and the gist of it:

The PLLar : 440w PL-L Grow Unit – DWC version

Required Materials

Barrel PL-Lar Light Unit

• 1 x 55 Gallon Straight Plastic Barrel w/ ribbed sides (barrel should not narrow at top and bottom)
• 2 x Fulham Workhorse 8 e-ballasts
• 8 x 2G11 sockets - Etlin Daniels, part number CF2G11-RSM-REL Releasable -Rear Screw Mount.
• 8 x 55w 4100k PL-L lamps (other temperature lights are optional)
• 2 x 8 foot 2” diameter clear plastic tubing for Central Vac systems (to be cut in to 8 sections for cool tubes)
• 20 x 2” 90 degree Elbows for Central Vac systems (usually overpriced – look around for these!)
• 1 x 16”x25’ roll of Reflectix Double Reflective Insulation - light proofing and reflection
• 1 x 3" roll of Reflectix Foil Tape
• Digital Thermometer/Hygrometer
• Digital Timer
• Romex Wire and utility boxes for power, fan speed controller, etc.

Ventilation and Odour Control

• 1 S&P TD100x mixed vent fan
• 1 fan speed controller
• 1 x 4” flange
• 1 x 4”x16” carbon scrubber can unit (eBay or DIY)
• 24” long piece of 4” diameter flexible ducting - on top of S&P fan for light proofing when scrubber not attached
• 1 x 12” diameter lid for a standard round 5 gallon bucket (no netpot)
• Scrap wood or plastic blocks, screws and/or 5 feet of Velcro

DWC Grow Unit

• 2 x GVC 20 Gallon Rope Tub (better to have another on hand for rez water changes. They are only $8 so it's cheap to have on hand)
• 1 x 22” ABS Plastic Lid (custom fabricated piece – sorry. You can use a round plywood lid covered in panda plastic)
• Large Air pump + air stones and tubing
• 1 x 12” diameter lid for a standard round 5 gallon bucket with 6” netpot

Optional

• 3 cans of Krylon Black spray paint

Tools

• 1 Power Drill – assorted bits plus 2” hole saw
• 1 Powered Jigsaw
• 1 Router – needed only for the fancy custom ABS lid
• Screwdrivers, pliers, wire stripper and scrap wire for wiring
• Strong utility knife

General Design

Based upon inefectualize's The High-Pod, the PL-Lar's design is to act as a grow chamber for one plant, surrounding it with 360 degrees of light. Unlike the High Pod, the 55g barrel does not narrow at either end, allowing the unit to be taken off of the top of the plant so that the plant may be examined during the entire course of the grow. Roots dangle down in a very large 20 gallon DWC rez. The Rez could be easily modified for soil, hempy bucket, Low Pressure Aero - what have you.

It became rather clear from most comments on the High-Pod that the weakness in its design was its also acting as a base where the plant resided, preventing the plant from being examined carefully during the course of the grow. For example, detecting if your plant has grown a nanner is virtually impossible given the High Pod's design. A properly selected indica is simply insanely bushy when grown in a High-Pod and you can't get at the whole plant from every angle properly as it grows as a result. This modification to the design changes that deficiency in the High-Pod's design - and adds 110watts more light while increasing the overall volume of the grow chamber to permit a higher yield.

I believe this design will allow a yield of 7 to 8 oz harvest off of one plant, while still permitting rapid vegetative growth allowed by DWC.

The 55 gallon barrel is drilled with 8 2” diameter holes. The holes are offset in quads. Draw a plus sign across the barrel. Four of those holes are drilled about 4” from the top of the open barrel, each opposite to the other to form a plus sign if two lines were drawn across the centre of the barrel to connect each other. The other 4 holes are drilled about 8” down from the top in the same configuration rotated 45 degrees from the first four. This will end up providing 8 lights, equally spaced at 45 degrees around the barrel perimeter. Four of the lights will be lower than the other four.

The effect is to light the entire length of the interior of the barrel. The overlap of all 8 lights throughout most of the middle of the barrel provides the BLAST zone of light, but the entire barrel is exceptionally well lit.

2 more 2” holes are drilled opposite one another near the base with elbows installed for light traps. These holes are for passive intake air flow to the grow chamber itself.

The entire interior of the barrel is covered in Reflectix, mounted with velcro and foil tape. A 12” round lid is also covered with Reflectix and mounted with 2” spacers underneath the 4” duct hole in the "bottom" of the barrel. This provides some light proofing if needed from the hole for the vent fan, and otherwise provides reflectivity.

A 4” hole is drilled in the exact centre of the bottom of the barrel and a flange is put into that hole. You will affix your S&P fan to that flange with the fan outside of the barrel.

The PLLar is used upside down, essentially as a tall lid which fits over the GVC 20 Gallon Rope Tub. That tub was selected because its diameter is only a little bit bigger than the diameter of the barrel, providing a perfectly sized very large DWC 20 gallon rez for the barrel to rest on top of. The tub has rope handles and is exceptionally strong. It does not deform much ar all when filled with water. Lowes sells them (as do many other stores).

The custom ABS lid for the tub is cut from ABS sheet plastic with a router and drilled to fit a 6” netpot. The netpots we are using are netpot lids made to fit on top of a 5 gallon bucket. This extra 3” (all around the netpot) provides a very large amount of overhang so there is no possible chance of the netpot falling through the lid in to the rez no matter how large the plant gets. We routed out a 1/16” groove in the custom ABS lid in a 12” diameter so that the edge of the lid fits in the groove more or less perfectly. The netpot is extremely secure and clicks into place, without actually snapping into place.

Blocks made of scrap ABS plastic are added to the round ABS lid on both the underside and on the top side so that the ABS lid perfectly fits on to the top of the 20 Gallon Rope Tub without wiggling back and forth and, similarly, the blocks on the top side act as guides so that the lip of the barrel fits snugly on to the top of the lid without wiggling back and forth on top as well. A shove will not dislodge the barrel, the lid or the tub, but the weight of the parts simply holds everything in place.

The cooltubes are otherwise installed as they are in the High Pod – though they are not all installed at the same height, as noted above. They are staggered, in two tiers of four. This is because the 55g barrel is taller then a trash can. It has a diameter of 22” and a height of about 35”. The PL-L lights are spaced so that both the bottom and top are lit along the sides – with the large middle portion of the barrel overlapped by all 8 lights.

The extra 4 elbows act as light traps for the 2” holes which are simply put into the side of the barrel without tubes – they provide intake air for the grow chamber but are not used to hold cool tubes (the other 8 holes – using 2x90 degree elbows for each hole are used to mount the cool tubes.

Central Vac elbows were used because they provide a tighter fit so that the tubes are nearly flush along the sides of the barrel interior, with enough room for the Reflectix behind the tube and not much more than that. The elbows also hold the Central Vac clear tubing - our cooltubes - perfectly.

You can paint the outside of the Rope Tub and the Barrel with Black Krylon both for some extra light proofing (necessary in the case of the Rope Tub) and for aesthetics so the whole thing is a black pillar, about 51 inches in height, not counting the fan and scrubber. If you wish to conceal the fan and scrubber, purchase a second barrel and cut it just below a rib, paint it black and put that section on the top of your PL-Lar to hide the scrubber and vent fan. Add vent holes where required.

The whole thing will then be a 6 foot tall, black plastic pillar at that point, 22.5” in diameter. It will fit in most closets without trouble. Add the "PL-L" aspect of the lighting to it all - and you get the name PL-Lar.

It is best used while sitting on a cool concrete floor which acts as a heat sink to help control the water temps in the 20 Gallon rez.

Should you wish, you can add active chilling to the rez. For most people, that is either unnecessary or overkill. YMMV.

I will provide a proper DIY with numerous pics and tutorial – but we are still in the midst of building it (ABS sheet is on the way from the supplier).

 

[big twinn]

WOW excellent response...you have no idea how much i appreciate it! please keep me posted on when you submit your DIY on here! ill be the 1st to subscribe!